ASA management endorses GoJet

[TUCKnTRUCK]

Originally Posted by jtrain609

Do you understand the history about GoJets at all, or are you just spouting off? I could have well pursued another airline job, but I've decided not to. It was MY choice, and I'm not pissed at much these days. You, on the other hand, must be angry that you don't really understand the discussion that's going on here and instead of educating yourself you're flying off the handle.

Are you confusing ASA and TSA? I had some close friends that were at TSA when it all went down.

I think you are not comprehending my post at all. I was saying, and surreal picked up on this, if i was gonna send my pilots somewhere to sit while furloughed, i would pick somewhere that i KNEW they would want to come back from.

There is no handle flying going on here. For some reason you seem pissed that I would say, it seems like their CP is trying to help out, but isn't really in the "world" much in the way most CP's are out of the loop. Comparing 9E/9L to ASA/GO-Jets has no relavence whatsovere. ASA fly's for Delta, Go for United... the only thing in common is the type. They don't share managment, office space, or even ramp space. GO-JETS has not whipsawed them to the best of my knowledge. TSA is another story. It is low what happeed to the TSA guys, and I despise those who did it to them.

[jtrain609]

Originally Posted by TUCKnTRUCK

Are you confusing ASA and TSA? I had some close friends that were at TSA when it all went down.

I think you are not comprehending my post at all. I was saying, and surreal picked up on this, if i was gonna send my pilots somewhere to sit while furloughed, i would pick somewhere that i KNEW they would want to come back from.

There is no handle flying going on here. For some reason you seem pissed that I would say, it seems like their CP is trying to help out, but isn't really in the "world" much in the way most CP's are out of the loop. Comparing 9E/9L to ASA/GO-Jets has no relavence whatsovere. ASA fly's for Delta, Go for United... the only thing in common is the type. They don't share managment, office space, or even ramp space. GO-JETS has not whipsawed them to the best of my knowledge. TSA is another story. It is low what happeed to the TSA guys, and I despise those who did it to them.

Ok so you've missed what I said, let's try this again.

First of all, I'm not pissed. In fact I'm calmer than you are, and if you can't get that joke then there's no hope for you as your choice in movies is horrible.

Second of all, you've missed what I said, let's try this again.

I said that you wouldn't feel the same way about GoJets if you were in the position that the TSA pilots are in over there. The analogous condition being that if Pinnacle Holdings was hiring at Pinnacle, transferring your Q's across certificates and furloughing Colgan guys, which is what is happening over at Trans States Holdings. Trans States Holdings is furloughing out of TSA and hiring into GoJets while expanding.

I said that, because you seemed to be paying no mind to what's going on over at GoJets, saying "Well if you go there for a year then you'd just want to come back." It doesn't matter, because you should be floored at GoJets hiring while TSA is furloughing. Again, it would be the same if Pinnacle was taking your work and furloughing Colgan guys because the 9E guys were cheaper.

Does that make sense?

[dvtpilot]

I get it. And wherever I read somebody comparing the Mesa folks with the Gojetters needs to re-evaluate their thinking. (I've been on the Pyramid beer tonight and it may have been APC.....)




:::::Thread Hijack::::::



Train, you and the lady gonna come down on the 20th for a M&G?



:::::::End thread hijack::::::

[WacoFan]

Originally Posted by Velocipede

I love you, PCL. Someone told me they think you're my long lost son. I'm beginning to think they're right.

Originally Posted by PCL_128

I believe that was the theory of everyone's favorite flight attendant, Qgar. I think she may be on to something.

Here is a candid family shot of Velo showing PCL the correct way to deny a jumpseat to a Virgin America pilot.

[aloft]

Originally Posted by TUCKnTRUCK

I bet this one turns like this. Later on, Aloft will come back, post some inflammatory verbage pertaining to another member with whom he does not agree... which is about everybody.

Then he will pull up far fetched analogies, and try to compare, Colgan, Mesa, Sky west and TSA?

Others will get pissed off at what seems to be stubborn refusal, inane referrals, and blatant disregard for what people actually associated with the airline pre-go jets. They will then sink to a lower level and reply to Aloft with in kind posts.

Oh, you know me so well!

In truth, I've come to my own conclusions about GoJet, unswayed by the weak arguments presented by others to the contrary. I've also made a decision regarding whether to seek employment there, and I don't really care whether I am in lock-step with the masses on this one or not. So the issue is closed as far as I am concerned and I'm not really interested in wasting time trying to change the views of others. That said, I'll still point out obviously false assertions, like this one:

Originally Posted by PCL_128

You're missing this key part of the agreement:

C. Successorship

1. This agreement shall be binding upon any successor or merged company or companies unless and until changed in accordance with the provisions of the Railway Labor Act, as amended.

2. The Company shall not create or acquire an alter ego to avoid the terms and conditions of the Agreement.

Again, it depends on how "The Company" is defined. If it's defined as "Trans States Airlines", then ONLY Trans States Airlines (and any company that succeeds it or it merges with) is so enjoined. There's a REASON why most airlines are all subsidiaries of holding companies, my friend. This is it.

Originally Posted by KLB

You know that something's wrong with GoJet if they are having problems filling classes with it being so difficult to find gigs these days.

That, or they're simply the victim of a continual ALPA-orchestrated smear campaign. To wit:

Originally Posted by surreal1221

You know, I hadn't even thought about it from that angle. But I think cricket is onto something.

It's a sign of the level of communications occurring within professional circles if GoJets is having difficulty hiring people in these extremely difficult times. Very interesting and at the same time should be a sign of how effective the message can be, so long as the message is put out into the public realm.

...regardless of whether the message is true or not.

Originally Posted by ChrisH

You know, I'm not an airline pilot, but I'll comment anyway, because I think this situation can apply to any business/ industry.

If, within the industry I work in, I know that there is a particular company that is despised by many others, as being a company you shouldn't work for, I wouldn't go to work for them. It doesn't matter to me, whether or not I agree with those people's judgements about the company, or not, because in the end, I don't want to face a hiring board, for a future job, where I come face to face with someone who despised that company. It is a good way to get a, "thanks, but no thanks".

Whether you agree with the whole GoJets thing, or not, it would probably be better served not to go work for that company, because one day, PCL, Velo, and many other pilots, who despise GoJets, may be on the hiring board at your dream company, where they will quickly toss your resume out the door, along with you, if they see the name GoJets on it. Better to be safe, than sorry.

Which is precisely why I'm flying traffic watch for minimum wage 3-6 hours a week and collecting unemployment instead of working for GoJet, despite remaining unconvinced of the theories proffered by the GoJet bashers.

Hey, I'd love to be a more productive member of society right now flying full-time, but you people have made doing the right thing so damning that I gave up.

[aloft]

One of the great comforting constants in life is knowing that I can forever count on Seggy to contribute absolutely nothing to threads like this. Love ya man, you never let me down! Wish I could join ya in tossing back a few of those adult beverages, but thanks to your standards of who I can or can't work for, I simply can't afford it. But hey, at least I'm not a GoJet scum, right? Bro-hug!

[joliet]

Here is a candid family shot of Velo showing PCL the correct way to deny a jumpseat to a Virgin America pilot.

Dumb.

[Gonzo]

Aloft here is a one time offer. I will have someone walk your resume in for you to Gojet. Send me a PM.

[aloft]

For realz? Dude! You are the BEST!!!


Re-read the last part of post #55 again, man.

[Gonzo]

Aloft do you really want to work for Gojet or is it the fact that they are the only ones hiring? If you really like their work rules, pay, and hubs then go for it.

[Velocipede]

Originally Posted by PCL_128

I believe that was the theory of everyone's favorite flight attendant, Qgar. I think she may be on to something.

She's a wise, perceptive woman.

Originally Posted by ChrisH

Whether you agree with the whole GoJets thing, or not, it would probably be better served not to go work for that company, because one day, PCL, Velo, and many other pilots, who despise GoJets, may be on the hiring board at your dream company, where they will quickly toss your resume out the door, along with you, if they see the name GoJets on it. Better to be safe, than sorry..

You're EXACTLY right. Its really easy to round file a pilot resume. And Gojet experience can be a factor at some airlines.

Originally Posted by aloft

Hey, I'd love to be a more productive member of society right now flying full-time, but you people have made doing the right thing so damning that I gave up.

Actually, you know deep down that its the wrong thing to do. Just like crossing a picket line.

Originally Posted by Gonzo

Aloft do you really want to work for Gojet or is it the fact that they are the only ones hiring? If you really like their work rules, pay, and hubs then go for it.

You win the "World's Worst Advice" award.

[Toonces]

Originally Posted by Trip7

As someone who as personally seen there crews walk around with their badges flipped backwards I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole...

I have personally seen pilots from several including legacy airlines with their badges turned around. I think people probably do it so every drunk idiot passenger doesn't walk by and call you by name as if they knew you.

[ATN_Pilot]

Originally Posted by aloft

Again, it depends on how "The Company" is defined. If it's defined as "Trans States Airlines", then ONLY Trans States Airlines (and any company that succeeds it or it merges with) is so enjoined. There's a REASON why most airlines are all subsidiaries of holding companies, my friend. This is it.

You seem to be ignoring section C.1, which clearly makes the scope language binding on any successor. When the language was written, TSA Holdings didn't exist. That makes TSA Holdings a successor, which binds them to the scope language.

That, or they're simply the victim of a continual ALPA-orchestrated smear campaign.

ALPA isn't engaged in any smear campaign. This is a grass-roots movement. To the best of my knowledge, ALPA hasn't even commented on GoJet in any capacity in several years.

[BobDDuck]

Originally Posted by Toonces

I have personally seen pilots from several including legacy airlines with their badges turned around. I think people probably do it so every drunk idiot passenger doesn't walk by and call you by name as if they knew you.

Sure that's true when you are out flying the line, but in a crew room or training center? Naw, I don't think so.

I also had a GoJet guy ask for a jumpseat and say he worked for Trans States. When I asked to see his ID (which unlike just about every other jumpseater he didn't hand to me with the paperwork) he sort of covered up the part that said GoJet. When I asked him why he told me he worked for Trans States when he was wearing a GoJet ID he explained that he actually had said he worked for "Trans States Holdings" and I'd missheard him. I didn't even feel bad about kicking him off the plane.

[joliet]

Kicked him off the plane because he was worried about the stigma created by so many guys huh.

That's great. Someday when GoJets is the last show in town to jumpseat out because they fly for United, and you have a family member that is in an emergency room several states away, I hope you have it in you to get over yourself, and ride on their plane.

I was in that position, and I got an ear full about how they hated PSA for doing exactly what you described.

[ATN_Pilot]

BobDDuck, you did the right thing.

[JEP]

Originally Posted by BobDDuck

Sure that's true when you are out flying the line, but in a crew room or training center? Naw, I don't think so.

I also had a GoJet guy ask for a jumpseat and say he worked for Trans States. When I asked to see his ID (which unlike just about every other jumpseater he didn't hand to me with the paperwork) he sort of covered up the part that said GoJet. When I asked him why he told me he worked for Trans States when he was wearing a GoJet ID he explained that he actually had said he worked for "Trans States Holdings" and I'd missheard him. I didn't even feel bad about kicking him off the plane.

Originally Posted by joliet

Kicked him off the plane because he was worried about the stigma created by so many guys huh.

That's great. Someday when GoJets is the last show in town to jumpseat out because they fly for United, and you have a family member that is in an emergency room several states away, I hope you have it in you to get over yourself, and ride on their plane.

I was in that position, and I got an ear full about how they hated PSA for doing exactly what you described.

I doubt BDD kicked him off for the reason you stated.......

just some important notations:

1. say he worked for Trans States. (lies to the CA)
2. he didn't hand to me with the paperwork hiding something
3. covered up the part that said GoJet again making an effor to conceal something

If the guy is going to lie and cover up these things, then BDD was well within his right to act as he did.

[joliet]

Yeah it makes about as much sense as kicking someone off who paid for their job at Gulfstream, or works for a non-ALPA airline full of scabs like ValuJet/AirTran.

[JEP]

Take the "GoJet" name out of BDD's equation.

Look at the reasons alone.

Lies to CA.....
Hiding something.....
concealing something.....

Still enough to warrant the actions of the CA.

[WacoFan]

Originally Posted by joliet

Yeah it makes about as much sense as kicking someone off who paid for their job at Gulfstream, or works for a non-ALPA airline full of scabs like ValuJet/AirTran.

It makes sense because of the reasons that were stated. I don't care how a person defines their Captain's Authority - that is up to them. I think this goes beyond a GoJet issue though - it goes to the integrity of the person asking for the ride. If they were in any way shifty, concealing identity, etc it is correct to not take them. The man has proven himself incapable of the truth and my mind would start pinging "Auburn Callaway!!!"

Just my opinion - my answer would be the same if it were a Delta, AA, or any other pilot that was hiding something.

[BobDDuck]

No, Joliet is right. I kicked his ass off because he worked for GoJet. All the other stuff was just icing on the cake.

[joliet]

Originally Posted by JEP

I doubt BDD kicked him off for the reason you stated.......

just some important notations:

1. say he worked for Trans States. (lies to the CA)
2. he didn't hand to me with the paperwork hiding something
3. covered up the part that said GoJet again making an effor to conceal something

If the guy is going to lie and cover up these things, then BDD was well within his right to act as he did.

Jumpseat Police!



He was in CASS which was verified by the gate agent, his ID was seen, the captain obviously knew he was a GoJet pilot by his own assumption. He told the captain who he worked for, Trans States, when guys asked which airline I worked for I would say USA Jet/ or PSA Airlines, they would say WHOOOOOOOOOo? How often does the guy jumpseat, even the most senior guys at Legacy carries who don't jumpseat often sound like bumbling idiots when they come up to the cockpit.

I agree saying Trans States, then Trans States Holdings is a little hokey as well.

If he covered up the name GoJets on his ID, I agree that is a little hokey, but most mature individuals, when dealing with someone who might not be so refined as themselves, will ask them to place the ID in their hand if they are truly worried about the identity of said individual. Not start a JUMPSEAT WAR.

When someone said who is PSA? I would then say US Airways owns PSA, they would say ooooooooooooook. Who cares, maybe he was used to saying Trans States, maybe he worked at Trans States before he worked at GoJets because he might have been furloughed?

He never crossed a picket line, (assuming) he just worked at TransStates Holdings, aka GoJets.

What's next, pulling out a scab list to verify names of first year FOs at a small regional airline? Especially the ones that don't even have to shave yet?

How about denying a jumpseat to anyone who doesn't say they fly Midwest Express routes in E180s for Republic, even though they say they fly for Republic.

Has a Chataqua pilot ever said he flew for Republic?

The real question is, why even post about a specific situation? To piss off every pilot at GoJets, and anyone who doesn't agree with you, and sees eye to eye with the ridiculous divine teachings that are ALPA.

[joliet]

Originally Posted by BobDDuck

No, Joliet is right. I kicked his ass off because he worked for GoJet. All the other stuff was just icing on the cake.

I'm laughing my ass off, true or not.

Captains authority.

Captains discretion.

Jumpseat wars are stupid.

[Doug Taylor]

Man, a night out with "The Do", BirthdayGirl and the Mrs. and I guess I've got some reading to do...

[BobDDuck]

Man, the things we do for you Dough.

And Joliet, we each draw the line somewhere. When you get over to the other seat you'll be able to establish your own set of rules for what is and isn't acceptable for you.

EDIT:

The real question is, why even post about a specific situation? To piss off every pilot at GoJets, and anyone who doesn't agree with you, and sees eye to eye with the ridiculous divine teachings that are ALPA.

As was pointed out already, ALPA doesn't have an opinion on the GoJet situation. So no. But feel free to try again.