Go to DCA type academy, Delta WILL hire you!

[flyover]

This whole marketing thing is kind of new, but so is the aviation academy tied to the airlines. So they do some marketing along the lines of dental hygenist and the such.

I don't have much sympathy with anyone who would spend a fortune and know nothing about the industry they are trying to join.

On the other hand I'm not sure I agree with the pessimism on this forum. After the dust settles there will be airlines hiring. Some, maybe many pilots will leave the industry through retirement or "other" attrition. If someone wants to be a pilot, waiting until everything is rosy again just sets you up to miss out on a hiring cycle.

While I realize that this is a money making "scheme" at the moment, I did have an interesting lunch conversation with Delta's VP of Flight Ops about 16 years ago where he said the company planned to supply their future pilot needs through civilian academies and they were making the transition at the time from virtually all military hires to mostly civilian hires. Of couse he's long gone but everything he told me that day has been coming to pass.

[madit]

I have to agree that this is going to damage Sinclair's program. They had a good thing going up until this association. (also a Daytonian and Sinclair grad) The sad part is that I've heard that it is going to cost $47000 to complete the program which is a huge jump from the previous costs.

[Doug Taylor]

I wonder if someone was playing "Wish Upon A Star" on a casiotone keyboard during the interviews with the students.

[ERJ-135]

Here we go again: Can someone with inside information explain exactly what "instructor graduates" means? I know there are those who went through DCA and received instructor certificates, however, were not granted interviews as the ads guarantees.

QUOTE FROM PRESS RELEASE

"To date, 97% of Delta Connection Academy's instructor graduates have been offered jobs as an airline first officer."

[DE727UPS]

"Of couse he's long gone but everything he told me that day has been coming to pass."

I watched DL change their hiring standards since the early 80's. Used to be almost all military and perfect vision, they were the last one to relax their vision standards. Western came along and they had to absorb a bunch of guys that they wouldn't have hired otherwise. Like my civillian buddy who was 20/200 uncorrected. Has was one lucky dude being in the last class at Western. Then, over the years, DL started hiring more civillian guys and fewer military guys. I think due to the lack of surplus of military guys. However, DL has always been one of the best destinations for a pilot career and always got the best candidates, thus a high percentage of military guys.

What I can't figure out is why DL would want to hire guys from a civillian academy when there are a gazzilion regional pilots out there that would bring a much better experience level to the cockpit.

[DE727UPS]

Instructor's don't "graduate" unless they have put in their 800 hours as a DCA CFI.

So...you can do all your training at DCA and pass the rides but you haven't "graduated" unless you pay for and pass the standardization class, get hired as a CFI, and instruct there for 800 hours (at $10/hr). If you leave early, though, and get hired at a regional. The honor of "graduation" will be bestowed upon you....at least as far as the 97 percent goes.

DCA apologists are quick to tell you this is all in the fine print, somewhere, and if you call and talk to a recruiter, they will give you the info....if you ask.

The ads aren't designed to be truthful. They are designed to get you to move to the next step which is call the recruiter and take the tour. I've been told this is how marketing works.

Hopefully, somewhere in the process, you will stumble across jetcareers or find a regional pilot that will fill you in on how things really work in this business. Sounds like the lady in the article hasn't found jetcareers yet.....

[EatSleepFly]

[ QUOTE ]
Their latest scam also is a thing called "JetConnect". They try to sucker in students who have done most of their training with an FBO and convice them to get their CFI-MEI at DCA to the tune of 30G's so they can get a "guaranteed interview".

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh yeah, and scam it is.

Check this crap out. This is a local flight school that...lets just say I have some inside knowledge of. It makes me sick. Could've been a good school too, until they started with this junk. Its really sad because the people are alright, and the instructors are a good bunch of guys. They could have been plenty successful without stooping to this level.

Here is a humorous clip from that link:

[ QUOTE ]
# Enjoy a high paying career while working only about 15 days per month.

[/ QUOTE ]

High paying??? Hahaha...I guess thats a relative term. High paying compared to the allowance you get as a child, maybe.

[flyover]

[ QUOTE ]
"Of couse he's long gone but everything he told me that day has been coming to pass."

I watched DL change their hiring standards since the early 80's. Used to be almost all military and perfect vision, they were the last one to relax their vision standards. Western came along and they had to absorb a bunch of guys that they wouldn't have hired otherwise. Like my civillian buddy who was 20/200 uncorrected. Has was one lucky dude being in the last class at Western. Then, over the years, DL started hiring more civillian guys and fewer military guys. I think due to the lack of surplus of military guys. However, DL has always been one of the best destinations for a pilot career and always got the best candidates, thus a high percentage of military guys.

What I can't figure out is why DL would want to hire guys from a civillian academy when there are a gazzilion regional pilots out there that would bring a much better experience level to the cockpit.

[/ QUOTE ]

What he told me was that according to their research there would be a shortage of pilots coming up. That Delta not only didn't feel it could cover it's needs from the military, but that they didn't want to hire all military. But their consideration was that US airlines would go the way of Europe and Asia and have to hire and train pilots from the ground up. He was thinking it would be a cost of doing business.

Of course now Delta as a corporate organization includes regional airlines, something that wasn't really foreseen at the time, I think. Obviously academies are seen as a source of cash flow now. Definitely the whole viewpoint is different. Buyer beware.

[Doug Taylor]

Cash money!

I haven't a shred of sympathy for those people. Now about a decade ago, I'd say that they might have been mislead by egregious usage of statistics. However, in 2004, there are so many sources of information available on the internet to build a broader, more realistic picture of the aviation industry, they've got to be outright lunatics.

Perhaps I should putter down to Home Depot, purchase a few buckets, affix a snappy logoed label on it and sell it to them as 'Required Prop Wash".

Moohahhaha! I'll be a meeeeelionaire...or, well, perhaps a thousandaire. Erm, more than likely just a hundredaire.

[Sprint100]

[ QUOTE ]
Moohahhaha! I'll be a meeeeelionaire...or, well, perhaps a thousandaire. Erm, more than likely just a hundredaire.

[/ QUOTE ]

The funny thing is that we know you'll make something off of it

[Pirep]

[ QUOTE ]


Oh and they claim they hired 1000 pilots this year. What did they hire them to do? Clean the toilets?

[/ QUOTE ]

I would say those figures are about right.


[ QUOTE ]
"

What I can't figure out is why DL would want to hire guys from a civillian academy when there are a gazzilion regional pilots out there that would bring a much better experience level to the cockpit.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you're jumping the thought process a bit. The civilian academies would supply the regionals (Delta owned or not), they get their experience at those regionals, then DL (or whoever) hires from that experienced pool. A relatively nice system.

[ QUOTE ]


So...you can do all your training at DCA and pass the rides but you haven't "graduated" unless you pay for and pass the standardization class, get hired as a CFI, and instruct there for 800 hours (at $10/hr).

[/ QUOTE ]

You don't have to do all of your training at DCA and you don't pay for the standardization class. We all know how much you despise DCA, but if you are going to get digs in, make sure the facts are right. (It makes you appear more credible).



[ QUOTE ]
Oh, yeah...they believe it!!!

Then they turn around and say, "hey...what's a class B airport like?"


[/ QUOTE ]

A little piece of advice for people unfamiliar with busy Class B airports: Listen to the controllers and don't dawdle. This happened a couple weeks ago.

Tower: Cessna blah, blah, blah, exit right next taxi way, Regional Jet 3 mile final, contact ground.

Cessna: Uh, roger...

Cessna proceeds to continue down runway, doesn't exit one then another taxiway.

Cessna: Tower can I get uh, uh, a progressive to blah, blah, blah?

No answer from tower

Us, cleared to land, me working radios: Tower, you know you've got a '72 still on the runway asking for a progressive taxi?

Tower: What? Oh, Jeez, go around, sorry guys.

Us: That's what I thought, going around.

Tower, Chastising Cessna, us busy going around and cleaning up. What a pain in the butt, it always happens on the last leg of a trip.

Now on downwind, tower clears us to land and apologizes to us once again. It happens. Controller expected a certain action from the Cessna, but didn't verify that the guy was up on his situational awareness. The Cessna was oblivious to what was going on around him.
Bottom line, the 172 and his unfamiliarity with a busy Class B airport taxied the length of a 12,000' runway.to get where he thought he wanted to go. So for that young pilot wanting to know what that Class B airport is like, don't be the schmuck that goes into a busy airport unprepared and then asks for a progressive taxi (from the tower, no less) with a jet barreling at you on final. It's just like any other airport, they have runways, taxiways, lots of planes (just usually bigger) but alot less room for error. Be the ball, and don't go into the lumber yard.

[DE727UPS]

"You don't have to do all of your training at DCA and you don't pay for the standardization class. We all know how much you despise DCA, but if you are going to get digs in, make sure the facts are right. (It makes you appear more credible)."

Thanks for correcting me on the standz thing. The least they can do is pay for the class since they only pay CFI's $10/hr. It's pretty hard to get the facts right, as you say, when I have to rely on DCA marketing and ads for my info. Why don't they just explain the fine print at the DCA website?

I think you have to do training at DCA or a school that is affiliated with DCA to "graduate" from the program (plus instruct for 800 hours).

[GSMPilot]

what's interesting is i went to take their tour and on my return flight i was on Comair. i waited till everyone left and then asked the FO about if he was aware of the program and what he recommended. he just laughed and said "do it 61, you'll save money, that's what matters..that's how I did it"...that just basically nailed the coffin shut, decided i do it all 61 maybe go to ATP for fast track stuff for my CFI but why waste the money? what's the point?

[ERJ-135]

Here is where I find fault in the DCA ad and what it implies.

*Upon graduation, you'll receive a Guaranteed Job Interview with a Delta Connection Carrier or American Eagle.

It implies that all a student has to do is finish the flight training and graduate. It fails to leave out the small print about working 800 hours as a CFI for a measly $10/flight hour.

Can someone explain the new accelerated 10 plus 4 jet program? Be an airline pilot in only 700 hours!

[planediveguy]

[ QUOTE ]
Here is where I find fault in the DCA ad and what it implies.

*Upon graduation, you'll receive a Guaranteed Job Interview with a Delta Connection Carrier or American Eagle.

It implies that all a student has to do is finish the flight training and graduate. It fails to leave out the small print about working 800 hours as a CFI for a measly $10/flight hour.

Can someone explain the new accelerated 10 plus 4 jet program? Be an airline pilot in only 700 hours!

[/ QUOTE ]


I guess someone from Admissions could explain you the 10+4 thing...

When I took the tour of the Academy that information was offered to me without me having to ask. No one (in their sane mind) signs up for this program without knowing what is required of them to earn that guaranteed interview... so no one is tricked into having to teach for 800 hours at $ 10.00 per hour...

Now it is nice to see you all hidding in this little corner... so you can all whine about DCA amongst yourselves!

I can tell you that more instructors got hired... One of our guys that is working for the International Contract Group....Yes we train Chinese Nationals for a couple of Chinese Airlines.... got offered a job to fly a 757 in China.... right from our instructor rank! Now, I know what you think about this 727... but the offer was made!

As far as the "Scam" that you all refer here...

A lot of students come to DCA already with their Private, Instrument and Commercial ratings ( even Multi) and DCA accepts them, and hires them and they get the same chance to bust their asses for 800h for ten bucks an hour and get the inteview and.... get hired on the right seat of a CRJ or ERJ.... You forgot that part! How could you?!?!?

So the school thought that it would be fare to allow interested individuals to get their CFI and CFII and MEI at DCA and then teach back at their FBO's... in some way it will raise the standards of training of some FBO's out there ( now the buzz word here is "some", so don't get all excited ok?)

Regardless of what you think... as a marketing strategy this is pretty smart...

See you back at the flight trainig topcis where this thread belongs in the first place :

[PhilosopherPilot]

Whining? Who's whining?

G

[montanapilot]

[ QUOTE ]
Regardless of what you think... as a marketing strategy this is pretty smart...

[/ QUOTE ]


and deceitful too.

[DE727UPS]

"Now it is nice to see you all hidding in this little corner... so you can all whine about DCA amongst yourselves!"

How do you figure being at the general fourm is hiding? Just cause it took you a week to find this thread doesn't mean were hiding.

"See you back at the flight trainig topcis where this thread belongs in the first place"

It sounds like you don't want the "general public" at JC to know there are a lot of anti-DCA folks around.

What cracks me up about the coveted "guaranteed interview" is that by the time a guy fullfills his 800 hour instructing obligation to the academy, they have the stats to get hired without the interview guarantee. 1000/200 isn't bad in this day and age. Chataqua and XJT, for sure, hire with those times. Probably some others, too.

I don't like the idea of 300 hour pilots in the right seat of a jet airliner. If your 757 guy had 1000/200, well, with a lot of training I suppose he could do it. Not that much difference between a 757 and an RJ when it comes down to it.

[H46Bubba]

Oh goody, I've been off the forums for a weeks and DCA has made it to the general thread! The battle rages on I guess between the DCA marketing "haters" and the instructors. I usully sit back and watch but, I have to give my $.02.
I for one was not "blinded by the adds and the "numbers". I did my homework not once but twice. I could care less about the "guaranteed interview", but it is there if I want to use it when I'm done. I chose DCA for the training. I knew going in that it would be expensive, but I'm getting what I'm paying for. Though I did laugh when I saw the "pushback" on the 172 checklist for the first time. I like a lot of student at DCA are veterans and chose DCA because we like the "structured" learning. We also have an advantage over regular students because we have the VA benefits to help cover a big chunk of the costs, so we don't have to go get the big money loans.
A lot of students don't do their homework and get sucked up in the marketing hype. That's their dumba$$ fault. There are many avenues out there to get to the right seat. They just don't see them, because they see the "widget" all over the adds.
I've been here for over a year now. I've gone from the regular full time program to the new flex program. People have come and gone. I've seen people leave for various reasons. Some run out of money, others, came and got the training they wanted and went elsewhere. There are those who decided DCA wasn't where they wanted to be. Then there are the instructors that have completed their 800 Hrs of Dual and get their interviews and go on to the regionals.
I'n still not full sure of the whole "jet connect" thing. Though I know that it is helping some DCA students who want to go instruct at the "jet connect" FBO's. They get paid better and get their hours quicker, so they can return to get their MEI, instruct MEI at DCA and get the bridge course and interview.

I'm not here to defend DCA. I'm here to stop being ridiculed because Im a DCA student and I chose to come here vs. doing part 61 training or 141 training elsewhere. I have not once opened my mounth and ridiculed any other JC members for they type of training they're participating in, unless it's TAB or Gulfstream. Everyone has their own method of training that they like in order to get them to the regionals. DCA works for me and other who chose to come here. DCA is also not for everyone. I tell people who PM me asking about DCA, to see past the glossy adds. I also tell them to do their homework and check all other avenues that might be right for them. If DCA is it, come on down! If not good luck with whatever method they choose. I love this website. I've gotten to know a lot of JC' rs and met some face to face. Doug has an awesome website that allows us all to come here and b.s. with one another and learn about the ups and downs of the profession. I'm thankful that Doug has allowed the DCA forum to exist. So those lurkers out there can see DCA beyond the tours and the glossy adds.

[jonnyb]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm here to stop being ridiculed because Im a DCA student and I chose to come here

[/ QUOTE ]
Who's ridiculing YOU personally?

[jonnyb]

[ QUOTE ]
Yes we train Chinese Nationals for a couple of Chinese Airlines.... got offered a job to fly a 757 in China.... right from our instructor rank! Now, I know what you think about this 727... but the offer was made!

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah.........scary stuff man.

[GaTechKid]

[ QUOTE ]
Then they turn around and say, "hey...what's a class B airport like?"


[/ QUOTE ]

It was big, busy, windy, and Fedex dominated. Pictures to come as soon as I stop flying around the country.

[H46Bubba]

I'm sorry if I put it in the perspective that everyone was personally attacking me. I just happened to take it that way even though it was not directed solely at me. I hate the marketing as much as anyone else, and I'm glad that there is debate about it, but..... These heated debates about marketing and what DCA management is doing, spills into posts against students that choose to attend DCA or one of its satellite facilities. There are a lot of good people who chose to attend DCA, there are also some undesirable ones, just like everywhere else. I like to keep things fair. I think I'm one of the only students that posts. The rest are either lurkers or instructors. I'm usually quiet or post about how my trainings going, or maybe if some is inquiring about DCA. I just don't think its honest to make general statements about all students, when it should be against a bunch of mis-informed students who chose not to check out all their options before laying down the big bucks for DCA.

[jonnyb]

I agree with what you said, however, a couple things you need to keep in mind; life isn't fair, and it's obvious that no one is talking to you directly. Don't take it personally.

[H46Bubba]

Good advice well taken!