Question for Army Aviators

StrykerINF · October 29th, 2009, 23:21

If any army aviator is reading this, can you tell me what exactly the army is looking for in a pilot? Im a CFI/CFII/MEI with 500 TT... and have been an 11B (Infantry) for the last 6 years, part fo which is with the national guard. I've applied to 3 different aviation units and have been rejected on the grounds that I'm already a pilot. According to a friend of mine, I'm essentially never going to get picked up by an NG unit because of my prior flight experience. I have a 137 AFAST and a B.A. from a university. Just want any thoughts from anyone who has insight into what goes on with WO selection.

subpilot · October 29th, 2009, 23:30

I've heard this before too. I think they normally like to see a private, or close to one, but no more. With that said, I know a CFI where I work who just left for Army WO Flight School so who knows. Keep trying is all I can say.

StrykerINF · October 30th, 2009, 00:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by subpilot

I've heard this before too. I think they normally like to see a private, or close to one, but no more. With that said, I know a CFI where I work who just left for Army WO Flight School so who knows. Keep trying is all I can say.

It's like I said in a PM to another former aviator.. I have a bronze star with a "v" device and two purples hearts.. I've done my share on the ground through several deployments. All I want to do and have ever wanted to do since I saw the gulf war on TV was be an army pilot. I went infantry so I could be a better pilot because I knew what the guys on the ground were experiencing but it seems like the army ultimately doesn't care (surprise surprise, right?)

ppragman · October 30th, 2009, 01:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by StrykerINF

It's like I said in a PM to another former aviator.. I have a bronze star with a "v" device and two purples hearts.. I've done my share on the ground through several deployments. All I want to do and have ever wanted to do since I saw the gulf war on TV was be an army pilot. I went infantry so I could be a better pilot because I knew what the guys on the ground were experiencing but it seems like the army ultimately doesn't care (surprise surprise, right?)

If you have a bronze star (and I'm not military man so this is just a guess) it might be that they don't want someone who is good at their job as an infantryman to leave that field. Just a guess.

StrykerINF · October 30th, 2009, 07:31

it just means you A. lack common sense or B. incredibly stupid. I enlisted in the army.. so I think I'm both A and B. I can change my MOS to whatever I want, has nothing to do with it. The logic of some of the units is that the army flight school is geared for people with no experience and that's how they prefer their people- no experience. Me personally, if I was the commander of a unit... I'd rather have people who got off their ass and followed their dream of learning to fly rather than just always wanting to. Glad there's someone who has heard about the same thing I'm going through.

rpfeif · October 30th, 2009, 09:15

Weird, I have two buddies that went through Army flight school with a signficant amount of flight experience (one with a CH-47 Guard unit and the other is active duty at basic and warrant officer school). Doesn't make sense why they want people with no flight time. Are you trying to just go to the Guard and is just the individual units saying they don't want candidates with flight time?

StrykerINF · October 30th, 2009, 10:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by rpfeif

Weird, I have two buddies that went through Army flight school with a signficant amount of flight experience (one with a CH-47 Guard unit and the other is active duty at basic and warrant officer school). Doesn't make sense why they want people with no flight time. Are you trying to just go to the Guard and is just the individual units saying they don't want candidates with flight time?

Well I'm in the guard for the last 2 years and that's what individual units... 5 separate units and warrant officer recruiters are telling me. I know for a fact that what they say is true because each time I've submitted the packet, I wasn't picked up because I'm a pilot. I spoke to a friend of mine and he said that selling myself as a pilot is hurting my chances of flying. Another friend of mine has a type rating in a King Air (prior to his military experience) and an MI officer before he resigned his commission and went warrant to fly. He applied for a pilot position flying a King Air for Military Intelligence and was told by a unit that he wasn't what they were looking for. I'm not bitter about the whole situation... just disappointed and wonder if the majority of the american population know what sometimes goes on behind closed doors. I'd figure that the tax payer wants the most qualified person flying a helicopter. One argument I have for my "experience" is that I'm a fixed wing pilot.. not a helicopter pilot. I did an intro flight in a helicopter.. they are two totally different beasts but one I can tackle fairly easily.

Ian J · October 30th, 2009, 11:04

This could very well be a Guard idiosyncrasy. I'm certainly no expert, but I've never heard of this happening for guys going active. I've known a number of warrants who were airplane CFIs before they were picked up.

I can sort of see the point of wanting zero-experience pilots... makes it so they don't have to break any bad/non-Army habits. Easier to build attitudes and procedures from scratch rather than break old methods. Still though, Army flight school is very detailed and thorough and I can only see the biggest of knuckle-heads having a problem relearning how to fly the Army way.

At any rate... best of luck and it sure sounds like you deserve a shot. I was enlisted infantryman before I went aviation as well (as were a number of the warrants I worked with) and the transition from Infantry to Pilot is a fortuitous one for both the soldier and the Army.

Low_Level_Hell · November 2nd, 2009, 11:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian J

This could very well be a Guard idiosyncrasy. I'm certainly no expert, but I've never heard of this happening for guys going active. I've known a number of warrants who were airplane CFIs before they were picked up.

I can sort of see the point of wanting zero-experience pilots... makes it so they don't have to break any bad/non-Army habits. Easier to build attitudes and procedures from scratch rather than break old methods. Still though, Army flight school is very detailed and thorough and I can only see the biggest of knuckle-heads having a problem relearning how to fly the Army way.

At any rate... best of luck and it sure sounds like you deserve a shot. I was enlisted infantryman before I went aviation as well (as were a number of the warrants I worked with) and the transition from Infantry to Pilot is a fortuitous one for both the soldier and the Army.

For the OP,

Sounds like you have alot going for you. Your guard unit just may not have the possitions. Maybe you would have better luck in the Regular Army. Also if your GT score is only slightly above the mins maybe look into retaking the ASVAB.

Best of luck!

C650CPT · November 7th, 2009, 16:23

StrykerINF
First ... Thank you for your Service! I apprecieate you guys on the ground and I applaud your insight for wanting to capitalize on your ground experience and translate it into the cockpit. It absolutely would be a benefit to any ground pounder and Commander. I always try to remember that I am there for them, they aren't there for me.
I'm not sure why you're getting a cold shoulder, perhaps you intimidate the folks that can't hold a candle to your beacon of Soldiering skills.
In today's Army I find it hard to believe you can't get a Unit transfer to Aviation. Times have changed and when I applied it was a 3 year wait at a minimum for Flight School, today our state is hosting "fairs" to find applicants for Flight School. I would recomend you contact your State Army Aviation Officer, normally an 0-6. His/Her's office should be able to set you up with the appropriate process ... it's always better to have things come from the top down when you are trying to get something. You can PM me and I will get you the appropriate phone numbers and contacts.
I'm skeptical to why anyone would use your civilian aviation experience as a negative. To me you would be seen as a known quantity and I would have greater confidence in your ability to successfully complete Flight Training. Most of the top graduates during my experience have been Guard guys because the vetting process to get there is pretty thorough, that being said that in itself may be what you are facing ... the process of getting there is frustrating enough that many wannabes give up long before they would have to. You seem hungry enough so let's get you going! I tell young people do NOT let somebody tell you no ... unless they can show you in the regulation where the Army says no ... and by the way I went through Flight School on Two waivers ... after I was told I would never fly for the Army. Are you Tracking?
Don't let "someone" ruin your dream ... Go For It! Let me know how I can help you.

Jim

sog · November 7th, 2009, 16:44

hmmm, that's discouraging. I'm only at 230TT, but I was definitely planning on applying to some ArNG or Army Reserves units for aviation in the next year or so...

C650CPT · November 7th, 2009, 16:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by sog

hmmm, that's discouraging. I'm only at 230TT, but I was definitely planning on applying to some ArNG or Army Reserves units for aviation in the next year or so...

my point exactly ... Don't be Discouraged!!! Go for it!

BCTAv8r · November 7th, 2009, 17:18

Are Apache units hard to get into? (In comparison to other airframes?)

C650CPT · November 7th, 2009, 17:22

It's all about slots ... if a Unit has a slot it should be as easy as anyother airframe ... with the exception of fixed wing ... and that is being discussed on another thread.

BCTAv8r · November 10th, 2009, 09:38

I was reading in the National Guard forums that the only way to be a WO pilot in the NG is to enlist into another MOS first and then once you're in you can put in a package for WO. They were saying that the only way to be a WO pilot from the street is in active duty.

Is this true?

October 29th, 2009, 23:21	#1
StrykerINF Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Key West, FL... formerly Concord, NC Posts: 60	Question for Army Aviators If any army aviator is reading this, can you tell me what exactly the army is looking for in a pilot? Im a CFI/CFII/MEI with 500 TT... and have been an 11B (Infantry) for the last 6 years, part fo which is with the national guard. I've applied to 3 different aviation units and have been rejected on the grounds that I'm already a pilot. According to a friend of mine, I'm essentially never going to get picked up by an NG unit because of my prior flight experience. I have a 137 AFAST and a B.A. from a university. Just want any thoughts from anyone who has insight into what goes on with WO selection.

October 29th, 2009, 23:30	#2
subpilot Old Skool Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Bakersfield, CA Posts: 1,609	Re: Question for Army Aviators I've heard this before too. I think they normally like to see a private, or close to one, but no more. With that said, I know a CFI where I work who just left for Army WO Flight School so who knows. Keep trying is all I can say. __________________ RIP Ben...you will forever be remembered!

October 30th, 2009, 07:31	#5
StrykerINF Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Key West, FL... formerly Concord, NC Posts: 60	Re: Question for Army Aviators it just means you A. lack common sense or B. incredibly stupid. I enlisted in the army.. so I think I'm both A and B. I can change my MOS to whatever I want, has nothing to do with it. The logic of some of the units is that the army flight school is geared for people with no experience and that's how they prefer their people- no experience. Me personally, if I was the commander of a unit... I'd rather have people who got off their ass and followed their dream of learning to fly rather than just always wanting to. Glad there's someone who has heard about the same thing I'm going through.

October 30th, 2009, 09:15	#6
rpfeif Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: In the Break Posts: 61	Re: Question for Army Aviators Weird, I have two buddies that went through Army flight school with a signficant amount of flight experience (one with a CH-47 Guard unit and the other is active duty at basic and warrant officer school). Doesn't make sense why they want people with no flight time. Are you trying to just go to the Guard and is just the individual units saying they don't want candidates with flight time?

October 30th, 2009, 11:04	#8
Ian J Old Skool Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Hartford, CT Posts: 7,866	Re: Question for Army Aviators This could very well be a Guard idiosyncrasy. I'm certainly no expert, but I've never heard of this happening for guys going active. I've known a number of warrants who were airplane CFIs before they were picked up. I can sort of see the point of wanting zero-experience pilots... makes it so they don't have to break any bad/non-Army habits. Easier to build attitudes and procedures from scratch rather than break old methods. Still though, Army flight school is very detailed and thorough and I can only see the biggest of knuckle-heads having a problem relearning how to fly the Army way. At any rate... best of luck and it sure sounds like you deserve a shot. I was enlisted infantryman before I went aviation as well (as were a number of the warrants I worked with) and the transition from Infantry to Pilot is a fortuitous one for both the soldier and the Army. __________________ "All the war-propaganda, all the screaming and lies and hatred, comes invariably from people who are not fighting." - George Orwell

November 7th, 2009, 16:23	#10
C650CPT Senior Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: NOT Home Sweet Home Posts: 992	Re: Question for Army Aviators StrykerINF First ... Thank you for your Service! I apprecieate you guys on the ground and I applaud your insight for wanting to capitalize on your ground experience and translate it into the cockpit. It absolutely would be a benefit to any ground pounder and Commander. I always try to remember that I am there for them, they aren't there for me. I'm not sure why you're getting a cold shoulder, perhaps you intimidate the folks that can't hold a candle to your beacon of Soldiering skills. In today's Army I find it hard to believe you can't get a Unit transfer to Aviation. Times have changed and when I applied it was a 3 year wait at a minimum for Flight School, today our state is hosting "fairs" to find applicants for Flight School. I would recomend you contact your State Army Aviation Officer, normally an 0-6. His/Her's office should be able to set you up with the appropriate process ... it's always better to have things come from the top down when you are trying to get something. You can PM me and I will get you the appropriate phone numbers and contacts. I'm skeptical to why anyone would use your civilian aviation experience as a negative. To me you would be seen as a known quantity and I would have greater confidence in your ability to successfully complete Flight Training. Most of the top graduates during my experience have been Guard guys because the vetting process to get there is pretty thorough, that being said that in itself may be what you are facing ... the process of getting there is frustrating enough that many wannabes give up long before they would have to. You seem hungry enough so let's get you going! I tell young people do NOT let somebody tell you no ... unless they can show you in the regulation where the Army says no ... and by the way I went through Flight School on Two waivers ... after I was told I would never fly for the Army. Are you Tracking? Don't let "someone" ruin your dream ... Go For It! Let me know how I can help you. Jim __________________ Fly Safe, But Don't be a Pussy!

November 7th, 2009, 16:44	#11
sog Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: atlanta Posts: 31	Re: Question for Army Aviators hmmm, that's discouraging. I'm only at 230TT, but I was definitely planning on applying to some ArNG or Army Reserves units for aviation in the next year or so...

November 7th, 2009, 17:18	#13
BCTAv8r Old Skool Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Florida Posts: 7,114	Re: Question for Army Aviators Are Apache units hard to get into? (In comparison to other airframes?)

November 7th, 2009, 17:22	#14
C650CPT Senior Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: NOT Home Sweet Home Posts: 992	Re: Question for Army Aviators It's all about slots ... if a Unit has a slot it should be as easy as anyother airframe ... with the exception of fixed wing ... and that is being discussed on another thread. __________________ Fly Safe, But Don't be a Pussy!

November 10th, 2009, 09:38	#15
BCTAv8r Old Skool Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Florida Posts: 7,114	Re: Question for Army Aviators I was reading in the National Guard forums that the only way to be a WO pilot in the NG is to enlist into another MOS first and then once you're in you can put in a package for WO. They were saying that the only way to be a WO pilot from the street is in active duty. Is this true?

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