Questions for MikeD

[SickBird]

Mike, I was wondering what your 12 weeks of OTS was like and if it was really boring like the enlisted basic training or if you actually do intelluctually stimulating things that keep the time moving quick.

Also, I was curious if you know what order the aircraft go in regards to the highest ranking people in UPT choosing the aircraft they want. Does it generally go Fighters, Bombers, Tanker/Airlift, Theater Airlift, then Helis? And do you know how fast the C-17 and and B1-B go? I found the numbers of slots for all a/c for FY 08 and I noticed there were only 2 slots for pilots already in the AF for the F-117. So what ungodly talents do you bring the Air Force to get a slot on a F-117? You cant tell me you are just an average pilot to achieve that!

And one last question. Is it true that you can fly fighters even if you have terrible vision as long as the glasses correct it to 20/20. I keep getting told that by non fighter pilots but I dont believe it is true.

Thanks alot and do you know anyone from the 43rd ECS from back at DM?

[MikeD]

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Mike, I was wondering what your 12 weeks of OTS was like and if it was really boring like the enlisted basic training or if you actually do intelluctually stimulating things that keep the time moving quick.

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When I went through, it was 15 weeks. It's since been reduced to 12 with the addition of ABC, or Air and Space Basic course (many call it Another ######### Course). A course for new LTs that essentially was the last 3 weeks of OTS that were chopped out. I found most of OTS to be the same BS as basic with the addition of more management leadership-oriented....ala officer style. That was the main difference. In face, my old MTI from basic remembered me. For MTIs, teaching OTS is an additional assignement they can get after they've been teaching at Lackland for a while. Unfortunately, the MTI remembered the demerits I had remaining after basic and annotated my 341 appropriately on the first day of OTS.

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Also, I was curious if you know what order the aircraft go in regards to the highest ranking people in UPT choosing the aircraft they want. Does it generally go Fighters, Bombers, Tanker/Airlift, Theater Airlift, then Helis? And do you know how fast the C-17 and and B1-B go? I found the numbers of slots for all a/c for FY 08 and I noticed there were only 2 slots for pilots already in the AF for the F-117. So what ungodly talents do you bring the Air Force to get a slot on a F-117? You cant tell me you are just an average pilot to achieve that!

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In UPT, the tide changes with varying classes. Sometimes, people want the transport/airlift route more, other times people want fighters. In my class, during T-37 phase, we had 4 guys fighting for the one helo slot that was available. The AF, in their infinite wisdom and short of helo pilots, decided to accomodate all 3 guy's and 1 girl's request for helos, so everyone was happy. Aside from that, when we track selected after T-37s, I picked fighters, the next 5 people (by rank order of merit) picked transports, and it vent variable from there. We only had 4 fighter slots, 8 transport/tanker track slots, and 2 turboprop slots (along with the 4 aforementioned helo slots). My class ended up graduating 16 out of a beginning class size of 34. This was the 4 fighter people and 12 tanker/transport people (this figure is for the studs that graduated from Laughlin AFB, and doesn't include the 4 from helos that went to Fort Rucker after T-37 phase and graduated from there, nor the 2 that went turboprop track to NAS Corpus Christi and graduated from there going into C-130 assignments). During my day, at track select and assignment time, they did it this way: there was a overhead projector of all the aircraft available for assignment based on what track you came through (obviously, if you came through fighter track, you can't pick the C-5 up on the board). The #1 grad stands up and picks what he wants, from the availability on the overhead projector. After he picks, that assignement is crossed off, and the next guy stands up and picks, and so on and so forth. For my class on the fighter side we had 1 A-10, 2 F-16, and 1 F-15C. There were no F-15E available. How many of what type of plane are available depends on the needs of the Air Force. Sometimes there's no A-10s available for a particular class, for example. It goes:

1. Needs of the Air Force.
2. Your class standing.
3. What you selected on your dream sheet.
4. Luck of the draw.

Also, during my time, bomber guys (B-1/B-52) used to come out of the tanker/transport track. This has since been changed to the fighter track, making it the fighter/bomber track. So people going to T-38s in this track are eligible for assignment to fighters or bombers.

So far as the F-117, I don't know what the AF sees in me....I see myself as more of a pain in their rear than anything else.....

.....Maybe that's what they're looking for.

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And one last question. Is it true that you can fly fighters even if you have terrible vision as long as the glasses correct it to 20/20. I keep getting told that by non fighter pilots but I dont believe it is true.

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Very true. Depending on the need of the AF, they vary ALL requirements at some time or another. During the late '80s/early '90s when the AF didn't need pilots that much, they tightened the requirements in order to be more selective. For pilots, you had to have 20/20 uncorrected. Now, they've relaxed the requirements somewhat to make it correctable to 20/20 for pilots. And there are many pilots that wear glasses that fly fighters.

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Thanks alot and do you know anyone from the 43rd ECS from back at DM?

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I never got around much to the 130 side of DM....they almost seemed like two different worlds. I knew a couple of aircrew from the former 42nd ACCS that closed up last year. Heck, I didn't find out until I got back from Iraq that the 41st and the 43rd were no longer part of the 355th Wing. Is it 755th or something like that?

I checked out of DM and the 355th last week, so I'm glad to be out of that madhouse called DM.

[SickBird]

Wow, thanks for all that information. I thought I was dead set on flying via the civilian route, but lately I have been thinking the combat landings would be worth the extra work that would require me to be competitive for an OTS pilot slot which we both know are extremely hard to come by. But one guy in the 43rd recently got one of 4 or 5 slots for prior enlisted to OTS and UPT so I have been getting ideas in my head.

My one worry though is that no matter how hard I study or try during UPT, the Air Force decides they need me in a C-130, neat plane but I want a jet or turbine engine. And if they still allow 4 eyes to fly fighters, if I made it, that would for sure be my first choice.

Anyways thanks for the info and congratulations on your selection into the F-117 program. That has got to be one of the coolest things you could possibly due short of flying into space, which you can probably do but it is classified .

[MikeD]

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Wow, thanks for all that information. I thought I was dead set on flying via the civilian route, but lately I have been thinking the combat landings would be worth the extra work that would require me to be competitive for an OTS pilot slot which we both know are extremely hard to come by. But one guy in the 43rd recently got one of 4 or 5 slots for prior enlisted to OTS and UPT so I have been getting ideas in my head.

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The slots are few which pisses me off. There's fewer slots for OTS for prior enlisted than there is for civilians off the street. I think that's BS, and a lousy way to motivate the enlisted people that want to eventually become officers. But keep truckin for that slot if that's what you want. One of my former enlisted ETAC controllers that worked for me in the 354th recently graduated from OTS and is going space. He was formerly enlisted aircrew in the 42nd prior to coming to my squadron, and I wrote a reccommendation for him for OTS.

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My one worry though is that no matter how hard I study or try during UPT, the Air Force decides they need me in a C-130, neat plane but I want a jet or turbine engine. And if they still allow 4 eyes to fly fighters, if I made it, that would for sure be my first choice.

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Where you stand in your UPT class is really the driving factor in getting what you want. You do real good, and your desires usually can come ahead of the AF needs....sort of a "congrats" for finishing very high. So anything is possible. Even luck is there. In my class like I mentioned, I selected fighters, the next 5 guys wanted transports, leaving the #6 and on guys getting a shot at being able to select an available fighter slot. The #2 through #4 guys could've selected those fighter slots and left none for #5 and on. As it was, the 4 fighter slots went to the me, the #6 guy, the #7 guy and the #11 guy, out of 16 total.

[SickBird]

Thats completely backwards from what I thought would happen. People are not watching Top Gun as judiciously as they should lately.

Well, I have three years before I can have my bachelores completed and I will also be at the end of my enlistment by then as well. Hopefully the OTS UPT slot situation will be more prior enlisted friendly by then.

Oh, and I forgot to say thanks for flying the A-10 over DM all day instead of those damn F-16s. I dont mind the low noise from the turbine engine all day long, but I would be hurling rocks towards the heavens if they were flying F-16's overhead all day!

[jawright]

I know the vision requirements relax once you pass the initial screening, but can you pass that inital screening with glasses? I have 20/200 vision and had ruled out the military....but if I can still actually get into UPT with my crappy vision, that would definitely change things for me....

[MikeD]

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I know the vision requirements relax once you pass the initial screening, but can you pass that inital screening with glasses? I have 20/200 vision and had ruled out the military....but if I can still actually get into UPT with my crappy vision, that would definitely change things for me....

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There are restrictions such as, I think the max is 20/70 or 20/80 correctable to 20/20.

[jawright]

Dammit! Oh well....

[phrog_driver]

Just to go back a couple posts, a C-130 does have a turbine engine. It just drives a propeller. My helo has a turbine driving a shaft. I don't think anything but UAVs run on reciprocating engines anymore.

[SteveS2002]

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I was curious if you know what order the aircraft go in regards to the highest ranking people in UPT choosing the aircraft they want. Does it generally go Fighters, Bombers, Tanker/Airlift, Theater Airlift, then Helis? And do you know how fast the C-17 and and B1-B go?

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I figured I could probably help shine some light on this subject, since I'm only a few months out of UPT now. You have to keep in mind that track select will automatically stovepipe people into the fighter/bomber world, or the tanker/airlift world, with the occasional helo or turboprop. With that in mind, once the class splits, one side of the house is no longer competing against the other, so the class is ranked only against the other people in their track (fighter/bomber, or tanker/airlift). That makes it hard to say what would be ranked where when comparing the two different sides of the class.

In the fighter/bomber side, the bombers are usually the last to go, since those guys usually want the fighters first. (Of course the B-1 usually goes before the B-52). There is always an exception depending on the class, every once in a while someone will want the Buff (B-52) as their first choice, so they will be known as the "bomber sponge" and everyone will buy them drinks, because they save the rest of the class from getting the Buff, unless of course the class gets more than one.

In the tanker/airlift side, the C-17s usually go first, but not always. Lately there have been a lot of open C-17 slots thanks to Boeing pumping them off the assembly line like mad. It looks as though this will continue for at least a little while longer, since Congress seems to absolutely love the C-17.

Just to give you an idea of how my class went here's the order on the two sides of the house (the top pick is the first on the list):

Fighter/Bomber:
F-15E
F-16
F-16
F-15C
A-10
F-16
T-37
B-1

Tanker/Airlift:
C-17
C-141
T-1
KC-10
C-17
KC-135
KC-135
C-17
C-21
C-17
T-1
C-141
KC-135
KC-135
E-8
E-3

I hope this at least gives you an idea of where jets go in the overall order. There really is no way to tell from one class to the next however, since people change from class to class, not to mention the Air Force seems to play games with what jets fall into what classes. In my class, no one wanted helicopters, but we got one anyway. The class 3 weeks behind us had 4 guys that wanted them, so how many did they get? None! You just never know. So if you take the AF route, be prepared for anything.

Steve

[SickBird]

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There are restrictions such as, I think the max is 20/70 or 20/80 correctable to 20/20.

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Well I actually think my vision is worse than 20/80 which really sucks cause I want to fly the C-17. I cant believe the 2nd choice for tanker/air lift for your class was the C-141. Arent the rest of those supposed to be scrapped next fiscal year? Did you buy that pilot drinks, stocks, and a car to thank him???

So how do you like flying the C-17? Some of your approaches and take offs I see into Iraq are pretty amazing.

[MikeD]

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[
. I cant believe the 2nd choice for tanker/air lift for your class was the C-141. Arent the rest of those supposed to be scrapped next fiscal year? Did you buy that pilot drinks, stocks, and a car to thank him???



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It all depends. Keep in mind that many people choose what airframe they want to fly on where those airframes are based....ie, choosing where they want to live, or quality of life, over similiar airframes. C-17s for active duty are at McChord, Washington; Charleston, SC (and soon-to-be McGuire, NJ and Hickam, HI). C-5s on active duty, for example, are based at Travis, CA and Dover, DE. You might get someone that is on the transport/tanker track, and really wants to live in northern California more than they care about whether they fly a C-17 or C-5 (QOL-wise, both crews are TDY about the same).

There's those guys, and there's other guys that don't care where they're based, so long as they get their KC-10, etc.

Everyone has their own personal reasons.

[SickBird]

Well all I ever wanted was to fly a C-17 even though I can not read the tail numbers if I was standing on the elevator. Why does the military have to hate a playa just cause my uncorrected vision aint that great?