Trying to fly for the military

[Hacker15e]

Originally Posted by pilotben1986

The reason the military pilots get hired with fewer time isnt because of their experience and training; it's because in the civilian world getting a flying job is very competitive and it is all about who know not your experience or what you know or what you can do. They really just need a body that can fill the squares and a seat and to sit there and keep their mouth shut. The way the military gets into those positions, and we all know how, is through the good ol boy system were you flew with a guy in the military who separated and now fly’s for a company and he recommends you and puts in a bunch of good words and then it just makes it harder for us guys who actually work our butts off to get in those positions.

This is where you've officially jumped the tracks with your "knowledge".

[bunk22]

Originally Posted by Hacker15e

This is where you've officially jumped the tracks with your "knowledge".

Funny stuff there.

[pilotben1986]

ok jeez sorry guys, I see you are all calming down about this so I guess I should too. I am not trying to change the guys mind here and if he really wants to do this path I doubt anything I could say would... Really think back to how your career started in the military. Could someone have talked you out of it? Probably not but at least the guy got to see two different worlds throwing out two different view points and I think it makes for a better thread dont you??. They couldnt talk me out of joining the Air Force and I am really glad I did, and really the reason I left the Academy was because I already had one degree down and another almost done. If I went the Academy route I would have had to put in 4-5 years plus PTS and those years at USAFA dont count toward your time in service, and they said I would sign a 10 year commitment after all that. OTS would have been a faster route but I really wanted that name behind my name ya know. We all like flying and thats why we are here so I support the guy in any choice he makes...lets hope its a flying one! Oh and if you know or even think you know something more than another person try not being jerks when correcting them especially when you are representing you, your unit, your branch, or the military... c'mon I know we all learned that one, just be cool about situation and this kind of stuff wont go on for ever. I'll try not being so bad either.

[pilotben1986]

It would have been better if I got a response like

"Well I can see where you are coming from on a few of those issues and I can see a couple that arent quite on but here is the way I see things and here are some of my personal experience...."

That would have been a bit better of a response and all these people wouldnt have become so defensive. I saw both military and civilian became very defensive in this forum and there shouldnt have been a fight between us at all. You guys come from us and we come from you... some civilian pilots become military and some military become civilian. There may be a federal boundary line but we a share the same sky.

[pilotben1986]

I shouldnt have been the first to try and make peace. I was kinda hoping one of the officers would have been saying these things and not me but someone needs to and no one stepped up. Lets just get along... ok

[pilotben1986]

Hey hacker15 are you at RAF Lakenheath,

a.k.a. General Mathews now Gen. Steels LAKENHEAVEN?

and where you there during Gen. Fogelson's reign on USAFE?

[MDPilot]

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Kinda says it all, doesn't it?

[Doug Taylor]

Did MDPilot say something?

HA! It's a joke man, it's a joke. Don't poop in my v-file bro!

[MDPilot]

Doug who??

[Doug Taylor]

I figure it was like this.

I really wanted to fly in the military when I was in high school. I lived, ate, breathed, thought about and secreted from my skin military aviation. I'd have slapped a nun in order to even have a five minute conversation with a military aviator because where I grew up, you farmed, worked at a dairy or worked at a creamery and there wasn't the series of tubes which is the internet.

It turns out that I didn't meet the physical requirements and from what I learned during college, not a whole heck of a lot of your overall duties in the military revolves around flying and you need a thirst to be an officer first, and then an aviator second. Kind of like the point that every Marine, whether he be an officer or enlisted, O-1 to O-Whatever is a Rifleman first and everything else second.

So when I see a thread where present and former military aviators are calmly and patiently giving out insight and information on their first hand experiences and there's a couple of us that are doing the "Yeah, but" dance and attempting to debate with the way things ought to work in their eyes, it's good to see that we have military aviators that are here answering questions. I'd have KILLED for an opportunity like this while I was in high school and college. But then it's sad because some on the other side of the thread don't have a grasp of who (and what) they're trying to debate.

I see reservists, current military aviators, IP's, folks who've been shot at, folks who have done the shooting, pilots that have put and ARE putting their butts on the line for our country, their fellow airmen and their mission. Me? I've been a civilian professional pilot for almost 16 or so years and I'm all ears man. I don't have a lick of experience in the military.... so me? Personally? I'm doing waaaaaaaaaaaay more listening in the thread than even attempting to counter the argument.

Hell, there's no argument to be made because they're telling it like it is.

Speaking of that, here's a little public service announcement. I sat down for a nice turkey dinner with my family out here in California on thursday, in safety, whereas the world was falling apart in India... on television. Thank you for your service to our nation. I could have easily been nibbling on a can of spam in the smoldering wreckage of my hometown as MiGs and Sukhois flew sorties overhead or hiding from some crazed jihadist without the ability to empathize with those that don't share his worldview lobs grenades at innocent people... But it's folks like you that keep the bad guys thousands of miles away on the cable news, rather than my mom's front yard. Thanks! I mean it too.

[bunk22]

Originally Posted by pilotben1986

ok jeez Oh and if you know or even think you know something more than another person try not being jerks when correcting them especially when you are representing you, your unit, your branch, or the military... c'mon I know we all learned that one, just be cool about situation and this kind of stuff wont go on for ever. I'll try not being so bad either.

Or try not be so sensitive when the info you provide is not accurate and called on it. Nothing wrong with not being in the military and being a military pilot. The military is not for everyone and even not meant for some of us in it. However, the experience is second to none, the training, missions, flying is something that will not ever be experienced on the civilian side....thus that's why it's called the military.

[pilotben1986]

Originally Posted by MDPilot

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Kinda says it all, doesn't it?

yeah I suppose...They are a little upset. oh well I wanted to make amends. Fixing the situation is a lot better than ignoring it.
that's too bad.

[HAL_Pilot]

pilotben1986,

BS, you didn't want to make amends. You were trolling for others to make amends to you.

I am a retired Naval Flight Officer and currently I'm currently a B-767 FO at a major airline. I have a experience in corporate, fractional and general aviation too.

Everything you have posted is absolutely and totally f'ing wrong. You need to learn to keep your mouth shut and to listen more. Giving advise when you have neither the knowledge or experience in the relevant arena does no one any good and makes you seem like an idiot.

It's time for you to quit trying to dig your way out of the bottomless pit you have thrown yourself.

[bunk22]

Originally Posted by HAL_Pilot

pilotben1986,

BS, you didn't want to make amends. You were trolling for others to make amends to you.

I am a retired Naval Flight Officer and currently I'm currently a B-767 FO at a major airline. I have a experience in corporate, fractional and general aviation too.

Everything you have posted is absolutely and totally f'ing wrong. You need to learn to keep your mouth shut and to listen more. Giving advise when you have neither the knowledge or experience in the relevant arena does no one any good and makes you seem like an idiot.

It's time for you to quit trying to dig your way out of the bottomless pit you have thrown yourself.

That's gotta hurt...the truth that is.

[Hacker15e]

Originally Posted by pilotben1986

Hey hacker15 are you at RAF Lakenheath,

a.k.a. General Mathews now Gen. Steels LAKENHEAVEN?

and where you there during Gen. Fogelson's reign on USAFE?

Fortunately, I missed both Doc Foglesong and Mathews. There have been two Wing CCs since Steel, and fortunately both of them guys that I respect and went to great lengths to reduce the 'Lakenpain'.

[Boom Boom]

Originally Posted by bunk22

That's gotta hurt...the truth that is.

As my friend and co-worker, TonyC always says "The truth hurts because it should!"

[Crew.Dog1]

You know pilotben1986 was onto something about Warrant Officers in the Army Aviation branch being somewhat their own bosses. This place seems to be dominated by jet jockeys though. Where are my rotary winged brethren?!
If I had a penny for each time my ears were nearly blown out by full-afterburner'd F-15's taking off out of Bagram, I'd be a rich man. Silly fixed wings.
Being above 10,000AGL is cool and all, but being 50AGL dodging tracer fire and RPG's... that's where the true action lives.

[Ian J]

Originally Posted by Crew.Dog1

You know pilotben1986 was onto something about Warrant Officers in the Army Aviation branch being somewhat their own bosses.

That's funny... I seem to remember being the boss to quite a few warrant officers. That they might have thought they were their own bosses is probably true, though.

[mjg407]

Originally Posted by HAL_Pilot

pilotben1986,

BS, you didn't want to make amends. You were trolling for others to make amends to you.

I am a retired Naval Flight Officer and currently I'm currently a B-767 FO at a major airline. I have a experience in corporate, fractional and general aviation too.

Everything you have posted is absolutely and totally f'ing wrong. You need to learn to keep your mouth shut and to listen more. Giving advise when you have neither the knowledge or experience in the relevant arena does no one any good and makes you seem like an idiot.

It's time for you to quit trying to dig your way out of the bottomless pit you have thrown yourself.

Nice point. I flew for 15 years in the Navy, and now fly civilian in a world completely different than almost any civilian operation out there. Of my 25 pilots only 3 have any military pilot experience. Everything Hacker, Ian, and bunk have been saying is 100% true. Frankly IMHO the poster sounds like he's a little bitter at the AF and has got a bit of a chip.

[rmepilot]

Originally Posted by Crew.Dog1

You know pilotben1986 was onto something about Warrant Officers in the Army Aviation branch being somewhat their own bosses.

Even in TF Shadow, ALL WO's work for Commissioned Officers. If in doubt, go to the TOC and ask Big John or Ron who they work for. The same goes for the W-5's in the "tool shed" who work for D6.

Originally Posted by Crew.Dog1

This place seems to be dominated by jet jockeys though. Where are my rotary winged brethren?!

Last time I checked, this website is called "jetcarreers.com", although I could be mistaken.

Originally Posted by Crew.Dog1

If I had a penny for each time my ears were nearly blown out by full-afterburner'd F-15's taking off out of Bagram, I'd be a rich man. Silly fixed wings.

Yes I agree, but according to the F-15 pilots, afterburner TO's are req'd for their gross weights and current density altitudes. Try hearing protection on the flight line, it works.

Originally Posted by Crew.Dog1

Being above 10,000AGL is cool and all, but being 50AGL dodging tracer fire and RPG's... that's where the true action lives.

I agree on this as well. But after a long exciting career, I'd trade places with them in a heart beat.

Don't you lift guy's usually stay above 500' and out of SA lethal range until RP inbound?

[N826AW]

FYI to all you current/ex-military pilots who think your posts are going in one ear and out other, they're not. Thanks for the perspectives.

[Hacker15e]

Originally Posted by rmepilot

Yes I agree, but according to the F-15 pilots, afterburner TO's are req'd for their gross weights and current density altitudes.

Burner takeoffs are the norm for the F-15E at Bagram or anywhere else. The jets over there are taking off at bamn near 80,000# and the field elevation is 4500'-ish. That means there is a pretty tight window between decision speed and refusal speed. In that respect, it's about safety, not showing off. You'd be surprised at the stopping distances required for the jet at that weight. Although there's a cable there and we can use the hook for an aborted takeoff, with a bunch of bombs on board it's not a safe bet to take a departure end barrier -- the F-15 has a tendency to tip over sometimes if you don't take the cable just right.

Second, in an area where Hadji can be sitting 2 miles off the end of the runway with an SA-7 (or worse), we need AIRSPEED and QUICK in order to be able to do anything in case of a launch. The faster we get fast, the faster we climb out of that MANPAD WEZ.

[pilotben1986]

Originally Posted by Hacker15e

Fortunately, I missed both Doc Foglesong and Mathews. There have been two Wing CCs since Steel, and fortunately both of them guys that I respect and went to great lengths to reduce the 'Lakenpain'.

but Steel is still there?

ha ha lakenpain why not call it Lakengrief!

do you guys have to pay to use the U.K.s controlling agencies... I mean as the military? I know I did when I flew there Civ. They would ask me if I wanted to accept more radar and controller services??? well what the heck am I going to say no! please sir dont provide me any separation or services of any kind because I dont have cash or credit on hand? not that I wouldnt have any just that it is BS to have to pay every time I land and BS that I have to pay to file IFR and use there services...just wondering if you guys had to do the same?

you know the U.S. is talking about doing the same crap! that will kill GA.

[pilotben1986]

Good ol doc Fulgesong - "Me and ole tripple seven are here at team Aviano (or where ever it was that day) to remind you that FOD is...or to remind you to wear a helmet while on a bike..." or something like that I always enjoyed those AFN commercials... The new guy I call him "Where's Waldo" because he is always hidding behind some Airman in a different spot every commercial and is really hard to find..."Flying and fighting and winning!"

[pilotben1986]

Originally Posted by HAL_Pilot

pilotben1986,

BS, you didn't want to make amends. You were trolling for others to make amends to you.

I am a retired Naval Flight Officer and currently I'm currently a B-767 FO at a major airline. I have a experience in corporate, fractional and general aviation too.

Everything you have posted is absolutely and totally f'ing wrong. You need to learn to keep your mouth shut and to listen more. Giving advise when you have neither the knowledge or experience in the relevant arena does no one any good and makes you seem like an idiot.

It's time for you to quit trying to dig your way out of the bottomless pit you have thrown yourself.

OMG! what is wrong with you?

you on drugs?