becoming a fighter pilot? help

[ppragman]

Originally Posted by Hacker15e

Interesting words, but spoken like someone who has never flown in the military.

It's different in the club than it looks from outside...and the "fighter or nothing" attitude, as well as the "I want to use the USAF to train me to fly fir the airlines later", will absolutely kill someone who joins up thinking that way.

True, I've never been in, however, I intend to when I finish college. Its about flying for me, but if I don't join at some point (regardless what for) I'll regret it for my whole life.

[Hacker15e]

Originally Posted by ppragman

True, I've never been in, however, I intend to when I finish college. Its about flying for me, but if I don't join at some point (regardless what for) I'll regret it for my whole life.

Definitely a noble goal to have, but before you make the decision I highly recommend you seriously contemplate the points brought up in this thread and the other closely related thread here:

http://forums.jetcareers.com/general...tml#post865491 (Military or Civilian??)

If it's just about flying for you, well...then I strongly suggest you consider a different line of service and/or employment. There is a significantly higher chance that you will find disappointment in the military rather than finding fulfillment with such a tightly focused goal.

If done for the right reasons and with the right perspective, though, flying for the military is quite possibly the most rewarding aviation career anywhere.

[N826AW]

Originally Posted by ppragman

True, I've never been in, however, I intend to when I finish college. Its about flying for me, but if I don't join at some point (regardless what for) I'll regret it for my whole life.

I hear you. I'm thinking about getting my eyes fixed and submitting a WOFT packet. If I don't get selected I'd probably just resubmit it as an OCS packet.

[Low_Level_Hell]

Originally Posted by ppragman

Definately true Doug, if your sole motivation was to become a fighter pilot, then yes the risk is there when you are moved up the food chain, or you don't get picked for fighter school. However, that happens in all facets of military service so be forewarned. My buddy Travis, for example, just wants to be a C-130 mechanic, that's what his dad did, and that's what he wanted to do, he joined the Airforce about 10 years ago straight out of highschool, and had to wait to be retrained before a mechanic slot opened, and then wait again. Just because you get KC-135s at one point doesn't mean you'll be stuck with them at the next. Additionally, the training you get in the 135 will transfer almost exactly over to the civilian world, and you'll build more hours over the years, which would definately be an added bonus, hell even if you were stuck flying C-12s the military version of the beech 1900, you'd prbably have fun and fly more than the fighter jocks.

As for being moved up the food chain, I've heard that many a time, and met many officers while I was in CAP that had to come to us to fly. That being said, they were still rated pilots, and they had to maintain their currency in their rated airplane, I don't think that the military is about to piddle away the millions on training they paid for your training.

As for being a rotten officer, the military will probably rid you of that habit over the years. Now granted, if you're an arrogant bastard who sits in the right seat of the KC135 and says things like "well, I should have gone to fighter school but excuse...excuse excusey scuse." then you probably won't make it through the training to begin with.

The only positive advice I can give is to ask you a question that you have to look deep down inside yourself to find the answer to: "What attracts me to the fighter pilot slot?" Is it "Hey, I want to fly, and I want to fly in the most challenging possible environment." Or is it something else. I recommend you go for it regardless, however, bear in mind once you commit and sign your name on the dotted line, you are in for better or worse, and that is that. That's just how it is, and it isn't about patriotism. Like anything else, its a job you have to be willing to accept that you'll be working there for the next 10 years, and that flying won't be your only duties, whereas if you go the airline route and work for ten years flying will most likely be the only thing you do. Honestly, to me, the military sounds like a better way to go with way better QOL, when you are actively flying, you're only flying 50-60 hrs per month at very most, and the pay is good for entry level flying jobs, however, the commitment is very large.

I'm not trying to belittle what you say at all but I think you're a bit out of touch. Try talking QOL to someone who has been deployed. Also what about the 'fight' part about fighter pilot? Employing a weapon in combat is is extreamly stressful and intense. I don't care how much of a bad ass you think you are but your heart sinks a little everytime you pull that trigger and you pray to god as that missile leaves the rail you've identified correctly the infrared blob on your display as the bad guys and not some innocent people or worse yet your own comrades. Its no video game.

[germb747]

You'd be surprised at the number of folks who show up at UPT these days with that attitude. The flight commander picks up on it and usually docks their ranking in favor of the more humble students who show good officership potential and are focused on the success of the team. I kid you not, there was one guy in my class who spent 4 years at the academy who never wanted anything but to be a fighter pilot like his dad was. When he was awarded his T-1, he started acting like he was going to find a way to quit he was so upset. Seriously, it was one of those conversations I had to have with the guy to make sure he wasn't going to do himself in. This piss poor attitude carried over into T-1s, went to at least one 89 ride (elimination ride), despite the fact he wasn't a bad stick. He ultimately made it through, barely, but at the bottom of the class. He's flying KC-135s now, and I'm pretty sure he's happy doing it. He just had a bit of growing up to do.

There was another guy who was very upset after getting assigned helicopters at Ft. Rucker for Phase III. Now he's flying VIPs in the DC area and talks about how awesome it is. I don't think there's any such thing as a bad flying job in the Air Force, they're all pretty badass. As for the ANG guy who was "guaranteed" his F-16 slot, he washed out on academic busts.

When I went through, there was a massive drawdown of LTs going on, i.e. "force shaping", and generally those who didn't make it through were subject to separation depending on the needs of the AF. If you had the right degree and were needed in another field, you're still property of Uncle Sam. And to the OP, my inital contract upon commissioning was 6 years (not 4). Upon completion of UPT, it's 10 years from the date you pin on wings.

[Hacker15e]

Originally Posted by germb747

my inital contract upon commissioning was 6 years (not 4).

I think the confusion is that the contract is 4 years active duty, 2 years inactive reserve following separation.

[ppragman]

Originally Posted by Hacker15e

Definitely a noble goal to have, but before you make the decision I highly recommend you seriously contemplate the points brought up in this thread and the other closely related thread here:

http://forums.jetcareers.com/general...tml#post865491 (Military or Civilian??)

If it's just about flying for you, well...then I strongly suggest you consider a different line of service and/or employment. There is a significantly higher chance that you will find disappointment in the military rather than finding fulfillment with such a tightly focused goal.

If done for the right reasons and with the right perspective, though, flying for the military is quite possibly the most rewarding aviation career anywhere.

I'm already a pilot, I can fly anytime I want outside the service - commercially or otherwise - the reason that I'd rather fly in the military than do something else is based on my own interests and my own knowledge, to make me an infantry officer would be kind of a waste of resources when I can already fly. Besides, everyone who goes into the military for the most part has something that they want to do in it, it is not strictly for the military experience. There are guys who go in to learn a trade, and guys who go in to build a resume, its not about that for the op, or myself, by the looks of it, but personal goals are something that have to be a factor when making a life changing decision such as that. Without having a goal the military structure will eat you alive, I've already seen that happen to my friends from highschool who went enlisted just so they could get out of alaska.

[Hacker15e]

Originally Posted by ppragman

to make me an infantry officer would be kind of a waste of resources when I can already fly.

Not to be argumentative here, but you're not doing the military some big favor by bringing your specific flying skills to it. The USAF could literally not care less if you "can already fly". 4,000 hour ATPs are treated the exact same way as zero timers while at SUPT.

This isn't Burger King, where you can "have it your way". I've all ready said this in multiple posts on this very forum, but I'll repeat it again since people don't seem to get it -- there's a reason that the military is called "the service", and it's because it's not about you. It's about you giving something to it, not necessarily it giving something back to you. I reject the basic core premise that we're discussing here, and that is someone who joins the military to specifically be a pilot or, worse, be the pilot of one specific type of aircraft. As I said in an earlier post, if you are not interested enough in the military to serve out a 4-year term as a non-flyer, then you need to seek service somewhere else. The potential to be a desk driver, even if you were "hired" specifically as an aviator, is real. At any step of the way this can happen, from a medical issue, to tripping up through the years of formal training, to any number of other things.

The number of officers in the US military is limited. Because of that, the service just doesn't have the money or manpower to dedicate to officers who are "just pilots". They have to be able to fill any role, flying or non-flying. They can, and do, take pilots and put them at desk jobs based completely on the needs of the service. They do not let these officers out of their 10-year training contract if this happens.

I don't disagree with your point that people need to look out for their own interests, lest they get taken advantage of by the big blue machine, but there is a limit to the extent of that personal interest.

Here's the bottom line: your posts seem to indicate that you feel you have it all figured out, as you continue to dispute the information posted by current military aviators. Think about it...we can't all be wrong.

[JacksonHandy]

Hacker, you know, for a USAF dude, you're a smart cat .

Seriously, I wanted to fly ANYTHING, helicopters in the Army, I would have flown a C-17 full of rubber dog poop outta Hong Kong, so I went to West Point, shattered my eye socket playing football, now I'm an engineer and a paratrooper. I jump OUT of planes. Never thought I would be doing that.

People who join with a self-serving attitude are quickly found-out. Either that or they're just known as that D-Bag.

[ppragman]

Originally Posted by Hacker15e

Not to be argumentative here, but you're not doing the military some big favor by bringing your specific flying skills to it. The USAF could literally not care less if you "can already fly". 4,000 hour ATPs are treated the exact same way as zero timers while at SUPT.

This isn't Burger King, where you can "have it your way". I've all ready said this in multiple posts on this very forum, but I'll repeat it again since people don't seem to get it -- there's a reason that the military is called "the service", and it's because it's not about you. It's about you giving something to it, not necessarily it giving something back to you. I reject the basic core premise that we're discussing here, and that is someone who joins the military to specifically be a pilot or, worse, be the pilot of one specific type of aircraft. As I said in an earlier post, if you are not interested enough in the military to serve out a 4-year term as a non-flyer, then you need to seek service somewhere else. The potential to be a desk driver, even if you were "hired" specifically as an aviator, is real. At any step of the way this can happen, from a medical issue, to tripping up through the years of formal training, to any number of other things.

The number of officers in the US military is limited. Because of that, the service just doesn't have the money or manpower to dedicate to officers who are "just pilots". They have to be able to fill any role, flying or non-flying. They can, and do, take pilots and put them at desk jobs based completely on the needs of the service. They do not let these officers out of their 10-year training contract if this happens.

I don't disagree with your point that people need to look out for their own interests, lest they get taken advantage of by the big blue machine, but there is a limit to the extent of that personal interest.

Here's the bottom line: your posts seem to indicate that you feel you have it all figured out, as you continue to dispute the information posted by current military aviators. Think about it...we can't all be wrong.

I'm not disputing anything, if you read my responses you see that I say I'm going to have to join even if I don't fly for my own reasons, but flying is the primary motivator for me in terms of my selections. I'm not going to join the Army as a infantry officer, when I do sign the dotted line its going to be with the intention of flying because I like to fly. Period. I know I'll have to go to the same training as everyone else, but I don't care, it will be a challenge, and a stepping stone to fulfilling some aspirations as well as serving my country. I know I don't have it all figured out at all, there is a lot of stuff that will simply be out of my hands when I go in, and I'm going to live with that, what I'm saying is Don't join up to be an infantry soldier if you want to fly. Try to get what you want out of it. The key word is try. I'm not saying I'm going to be miserable if I can't be a C-17 driver flying dog #### out of hong kong, or whatever, if I'm stationed in the states I'll buy a T-Craft and fly that when I'm off duty, its irrelevant. What i'm saying is that when I join I intend on flying for them. Nothing else. Sheesh, stirred up the friggin' hornets nest there.

[germb747]

Much to learn, you still have, young Jedi.

[skywestseth]

Originally Posted by ppragman

As for being moved up the food chain, I've heard that many a time, and met many officers while I was in CAP that had to come to us to fly. That being said, they were still rated pilots, and they had to maintain their currency in their rated airplane, I don't think that the military is about to piddle away the millions on training they paid for your training.

You think wrong....

[skywestseth]

Originally Posted by JacksonHandy

People who join with a self-serving attitude are quickly found-out. Either that or they're just known as that D-Bag.

Very true....self serving attitudes....dirtbags....and even bull*hitters...

[skywestseth]

Originally Posted by ppragman

I'm not disputing anything, if you read my responses you see that I say I'm going to have to join even if I don't fly for my own reasons...

No, you really dont

what I'm saying is Don't join up to be an infantry soldier if you want to fly.

Why not, it worked for me....

I'm not saying I'm going to be miserable if I can't be a C-17 driver flying dog #### out of hong kong, or whatever....

Corny...

if I'm stationed in the states I'll buy a T-Craft and fly that when I'm off duty, its irrelevant.

uh....whats irrelevent...

Sheesh, stirred up the friggin' hornets nest there.

Overly dramatic....

[skywestseth]

Originally Posted by germb747

Much to learn, you still have, young Jedi.

I like Star Wars

[taseal]

interesting

kinda like saying

I want to make money, and I don't care what I do. as long as I can pay my bills, thats all I need. kinda 'always wanting to be a pilot' for us pointless.

[Zondaracer]

*sigh* kids these days......

Most of the people I know joined because they believed in a greater cause, they wanted to be part of the big picture. I had a friend who did everything he could to be a pilot, but he straight up said that becoming an officer was more important than becoming a pilot. I can tell you that being in the military, there will be times that are rough, times when you feel like just a number, and that the service doesn't care about you or your family. Those who can go along for the ride and ride out the bumps well have a much better experience, regardless if they end up in the cockpit, an infantryman, or a deskjockey. It's always great to have a dream and pursue it, but when you sign up to serve, you gotta drop the selfserving attitude, suck-it-up and do your job. If you go in only to be a pilot, you are going to be disappointed. Sure a deskjob can suck, but it blows even more if you have the wrong attitude.

I couldn't agree more with Hacker's quote about marriage, that was actually priceless and I'm going to have to remember that one in the future!

[VF-213]

A few points if I may...

You are an officer first a pilot second.

Join because you believe in service to your country, there is a ton of BS, moving, bad pay and a lot of days thinking "WTF" but at the end of the day you are in uniform, you obey and follow orders.

The only guarantee in the military is that there are no gurarantees.

From reading your post, I don't think joining would be the right thing for you.

[fish314]

Originally Posted by germb747

Much to learn, you still have, young Jedi.

Hey germb, are you teaching PIT out there, or are you going through it yourself? (I recognized your TIMS extract in your avatar, there.) I'm teaching the T-6 right now, (and I was a former Tweet IP and a KC-135 IP before that) out of CAFB, MS.

[germb747]

Originally Posted by fish314

Hey germb, are you teaching PIT out there, or are you going through it yourself? (I recognized your TIMS extract in your avatar, there.) I'm teaching the T-6 right now, (and I was a former Tweet IP and a KC-135 IP before that) out of CAFB, MS.

No, but I sure do miss flying the T-6; it was a real fun jet to fly (minus all the standups, formal briefs, formal release, and the constant fear of being only a few bad days away from elimination at any given time). I'd probably welcome the opportunity to fly it again someday.

I was wondering how long it'd take someone to comment on my avatar--that came from one of my grade sheets at Laughlin

[fish314]

Originally Posted by germb747

No, but I sure do miss flying the T-6; it was a real fun jet to fly (minus all the standups, formal briefs, formal release, and the constant fear of being only a few bad days away from elimination at any given time). I'd probably welcome the opportunity to fly it again someday.

I was wondering how long it'd take someone to comment on my avatar--that came from one of my grade sheets at Laughlin

Oh, I had plenty of gradesheets that looked just like that (although, I went through back in the bubble sheet days with TRIMS!) Actually, here's the funny part about going back to teach.... you have to sit through all those damned stand-ups, formal briefs, and formal releases again. It is a GREAT job, though. So what are you flying now? T-43's or something?

[Hacker15e]

Originally Posted by germb747

No, but I sure do miss flying the T-6; it was a real fun jet to fly

"Jet"?

Hmmmmm.

I've heard all the arguments as to why T-6 guys say that when I was at Moody, so save it -- it still doesn't sound right.

[sdfcvoh]

If you do it, let me offer some advice: Don't drop one of those dummy bombs on your friend's yard and think that just because your CO told you they were fakes means they really were. I think you should look for yourself first.