Lesson for all those considering joining

[joel_MQY]

Folks, there are bad recruiters out there.

The Air Force found my previous PDQ on file (issued for Kidney Stones). The recruiter I was dealing with told me that it wasn't "in the system," and "just don't say anything on the application." "it is all scare tactics."

Not true. I was doing a little homework and came across this article:
http://usmilitary.about.com/cs/joini...statements.htm

I forwarded that article to the recruiter right before my MEPS, and his response was a magical: "They found a permanent disqualification on file for you."

The message: BE HONEST ON THE APPLICATION. Don't listen to recruiter BS. Oh, and do solicit help on this forum. I thank the people around here for their awesome advice.

Joel

[alphaone]

On the other hand, there are alot of STUPID things DODMERB won't let you in with. Sometimes, you have to be tricky.
Did they go look at your medical records without requesting them? Or did you have a medical problem at boot camp?

[joel_MQY]

Agreed. A LOT of stupid and very frustrating things. When I initially tried I disclosed that I had kidney stones. They requested a CT scan, found a couple and the doctor called it a PDQ.

Move 'em in... Move 'em out = MEPS.

However, I have come to the conclusion that any recruiter that would tell you to lie is not your friend!

[Mike Lewis]

Originally Posted by joel_MQY

However, I have come to the conclusion that any recruiter that would tell you to lie is not your friend!

Unfortunately, there are a lot out there who do lie to you.

I know that when I joined, asthma was only a disqualifier if you had an attack after your 13th birthday. I was diagnosed with it when I was 9, but there was nothing in my records to show an attack since I was 13.

However, I was torn when asked put it on my form. I decided to do the right thing and disclose it on my DODMERB form. However, when the doctor examined me and asked me about it, he asked me what I wanted to do in the military and I told him I wanted to be a pilot. He explained that asthma would prohibit that, and I explained to him that I understood but that I really wanted it any way I could. I told him I had lived with that diagnosis and had competed successfully in cross country and track, and I didn't think the physical rigors of PT, UPT, or anything else along those lines would be an issue for me in training or beyond. He responded by giving me a battery of tests for my lungs, and at the end as I started wheezing a little bit, he said "You know, I would characterize what you have as a mild case of hay fever and definitely not asthma. I would say your asthma was a misdiagnosis." And he passed me.

I have now heard that the rules are ANY history of asthma is ground for medical disqualification. It's a shame, because I had a friend who was enlisted in the AF and denied for OTS on those grounds (so, he's well enough medically to serve as enlisted, but not medically fit enough to be an officer? Huh?).

I would not advocate lying on your form, but I would advocate that if you do have something in your medical history that might be grounds for disqualification, definitely don't lie about it if they examine you about it, but tell them you'll do anything you can to convince them it won't be an issue for you in the military. I've heard other similar stories from people with other similar medical conditions.

[Chewie von Nubbins]

Sorry it didn't work out for you man. Oh well, life moves on. Now, what are you going to do about it? Maybe by skipping those four years, you can achieve your goal four years quicker! Set a plan and execute it.

The best advice that I can give you is from a prospective of....If I could go back and do it all over again. Here goes:

1. Get your college degree. Don't spend a fortune on it. Get the first couple of years with a Junior College. Less than $100 a class is much better than I had to pay at $1000 a class going to school at night and working full-time. Don't get caught up into all of the BS of what your buddies are doing and slipping on getting classes knocked out. Sit down and write out a five year goal plan. Where do you want to be in five years? Set many checkpoints along the way down that road. You mention being a firefighter. Get a degree that you can always have and fall back on. One that is close, but is probably in the highest demand is Nursing. At the most rudimentary level, the pay and lifestyle of a Nurse is not a bad deal at all...and they are always in demand. And, there are numerous programs/Hospitals that will pay 100% of your tuition if you give them a one or two year commitment after you finish. But, find something that you have interest in and you know that at the most basic level, you can always fall back on it to make a living. Also, you should be able to finish up some aviation ratings while you are going to college full-time, if that is something that you know you want to do.

Having a four year degree is one of the biggest accomplishments you can achieve in your professional life, and nobody can ever take that away from you.

2. Take internships in the summer that pay you.

3. If you want to become a pilot, this is where I would recommend you starting down that road.

In my case, I would have substituted the Nursing part for a good Engineering degree (which I finished up in 2004 going to school full-time at night and working full-time).

Hope this helps. I took the hard way, but I believe it was worth it. Again, this is only my opinion and is from a prospective of...If I could have gone back and do it all over again. You are in a very good position, take advantage of it!

Bryan

[surreal1221]

Hate to say it. . . but. . .they are just prepping you for a career of lies.

(le sigh)

[ColeyF]

Originally Posted by surreal1221

Hate to say it. . . but. . .they are just prepping you for a career of lies.

(le sigh)

Based on?

CF

[skywestseth]

Based on?

CF

+1

Surreal, Please tell me you have some sort of experience to back up a such a statement.

[SeatClutcher]

When I was interviewing a recruiter during a protest outside the recruiting office, he tried to recruit me.

"Assure me I won't go to Iraq," I said.

"How do you know you don't want to go?" he said. "Have you ever been there?"



That's the closest he got to messing with me.

[skywestseth]

Why would you ask a question like that?


That is like saying I want to be a pilot but I don't want to fly.

[SeatClutcher]

Originally Posted by skywestseth

Why would you ask a question like that?


That is like saying I want to be a pilot but I don't want to fly.

Is "you" me?

The reason I said that is because I was messing with him, too. I was being someone who wanted the benefits w/o having to do the war thing. I was seeing what he would say.

What he said made me laugh, for the record.

[skywestseth]

Originally Posted by SeatClutcher

Is "you" me?

The reason I said that is because I was messing with him, too. I was being someone who wanted the benefits w/o having to do the war thing. I was seeing what he would say.

What he said made me laugh, for the record.

Yea, I just don't understand why you would run around saying things like "I was being someone who wanted the benefits w/o having to do the war thing."

While I wouldn't expect anyone to work for free, there is more than your own benefits to think about when joining the military, anyone who joins for their own benefits gets seriously butt hurt. And then goes into the masses and spreads nasty rumors about how the military screwed them over.

BTW, What he said was pretty stupid, I would have had a better comeback than, have you been there?

[joel_MQY]

Originally Posted by skywestseth

Yea, I just don't understand why you would run around saying things like "I was being someone who wanted the benefits w/o having to do the war thing."

While I wouldn't expect anyone to work for free, there is more than your own benefits to think about when joining the military, anyone who joins for their own benefits gets seriously butt hurt. And then goes into the masses and spreads nasty rumors about how the military screwed them over.

BTW, What he said was pretty stupid, I would have had a better comeback than, have you been there?

Agreed Seth. Unfortunately, there are plenty in the services that are in it for the wrong reasons. But they haven't had a kidney stone, so it is all good.

Grr... still bitter.

[Hacker15e]

Originally Posted by surreal1221

Hate to say it. . . but. . .they are just prepping you for a career of lies.

(le sigh)

In my experience, there is a lot of falsehoods that echo through a military career, however the vast majority of them are due to ignorance or apathy, rather than intentional lies or misinformation.

Recruiters are not omniscient biengs that know all about all aspects of every career field. If you expect them to be, then that's where you're going to be let down.

Fortunately there are many places on the internet to find information about pretty much any aspect of what you want to learn. If you arm yourself with this information, then you are significantly less likely to be misled by the false information propegated by ignorance or apathy....

[88MPH]

Originally Posted by skywestseth

Yea, I just don't understand ... I would have had a better comeback

I think the point is that the recruiter didn't try to 'tanya harding' the guy into joining. Clutcher simply threw a curve ball to test the waters. Would have been the same effect as if he asked "I only want to eat blue Brazillian carrots because it's part of my atheistic religion."

Don't overanalyze the statement. -- K.I.S.S.

Originally Posted by Hacker15e

Recruiters are not omniscient beings ... If you arm yourself with this information ...

Granted recruiters "should" know their job, just like the target stock boy "should" know where the Shrek Scene It game is ... but no body's perfect. (That's why they put erasers on pencils)

Given that, it's partly the recruits fault for naively trusting someone else with all of the responsibility of making sure their career is what they want (or think they want) it to be. Partly the parents'/guardian's fault too. (and yes, I am a parent, so I do have jurisdicion and qualificaiton)

Everybody needs help in their career, but it's one's own responsibility in the end.

[joel_MQY]

However, if the recruiter says: "Ohhhh... those are all scare tactics, just don't say anything. Nobody has ever gotten persecuted." That is wrong. That is not the recruit's fault. That is a recruiter using a definitive.

[mtsu_av8er]

Originally Posted by surreal1221

Hate to say it. . . but. . .they are just prepping you for a career of lies.

(le sigh)

There's a whole lot of truth to that!

[skywestseth]

Originally Posted by mtsu_av8er

There's a whole lot of truth to that!

Please feel free to elaborate on your career in the military....

[surreal1221]

Originally Posted by ColeyF

Based on?

CF

Based on the past 4 years of my military career. . .based on the fact that I had a guarenteed job while I was in DEP, then two weeks before my ship date, my PULSE rating miraculously skyrocketed, disqualifying me from my choosen career. Come to find out, that my recruiter, then a TSgt, and also the TSgt job counselor at MEPs had gotten together with the docter who performed my physical to doctor my paperwork - all of which, I find out while I'm at BMT with a new job (one that I ended up enjoying, but it's not my passion).

End of story, the doctor, no longer works for any DOD agency. The TSgt's both will retire as TSgt's. Also, came to find out, that I wasn't the only person who had their paperwork mess with.

Originally Posted by skywestseth

+1

Surreal, Please tell me you have some sort of experience to back up a such a statement.

Yup, I sure do. I certainly am not able to give specifics, but know that I spent 4 years working at the Air Force's #1 Weather hub. I'm sure you can do some investigating, and find out what hub, and more importantly, what AOR we were responsible for.

On top of the incident listed above, I can go on for days about the mis-management that was seen inside the Air Force weather career field. Sure, one may easily attribute my frustrations due to being only a first term airmen, so if that is the case, then go right on ahead.

As a nice little bit of factoid'ness. Out of 25 first term airmen that I knew during my time at my work place, ZERO re-enlisted. Go figure. I'm sure we all loved our jobs, but the people, and the egos and control happy MSgt's are ruining the Air Force weather career field.

Originally Posted by mtsu_av8er

There's a whole lot of truth to that!

Yeah well, some people want to take the high and mighty route Lloyd.

Originally Posted by skywestseth

Please feel free to elaborate on your career in the military....

How about you elaborate on YOUR military career first?

[SeatClutcher]

Originally Posted by skywestseth

Yea, I just don't understand why you would run around saying things like "I was being someone who wanted the benefits w/o having to do the war thing."

Well, I didn't "run around" saying anything.

While I wouldn't expect anyone to work for free, there is more than your own benefits to think about when joining the military, anyone who joins for their own benefits gets seriously butt hurt. And then goes into the masses and spreads nasty rumors about how the military screwed them over.

I think you might be taking the situation I was talking about either too seriously, or I failed to set the scene. We'd been talking for some time. He was being playful. I was playful back. I was curious about what he would say to someone who didn't want to go to Iraq. That's all. No need to preach to me about the military or why people join or why they SHOULD join - all types join for all types of reasons. It's not my place to judge those reasons. Everyone has a story.

BTW, What he said was pretty stupid, I would have had a better comeback than, have you been there?

If he were genuinely trying to convince me, I agree. Stupid. But, since he knew I wasn't seriously considering joining (but was instead interviewing him during a protest outside of the recruiting offices), I thought it was pretty funny.

[mtsu_av8er]

Originally Posted by skywestseth

Please feel free to elaborate on your career in the military....

Here we go again.

Hi, Private First Class (or whatever you may be these days) Large. I'm Lloyd Williams.

I was a Sergeant in The Marine Corps when you were in Middle School.

0311/0331/6123

(For those that aren't familiar, that's rifleman/machine gunner/H-53 Intermediate Level Powerplant Technician).

8 Years worth.

Honorably Discharged.

Now, why don't you elaborate on your career in the military - I'm looking forward to it.

[Ian J]

Originally Posted by mtsu_av8er

Here we go again.

Hi, Private First Class (or whatever you may be these days) Large. I'm Lloyd Williams.

I was a Sergeant in The Marine Corps when you were in Middle School.

0311/0331/6123

(For those that aren't familiar, that's rifleman/machine gunner/H-53 Intermediate Level Powerplant Technician).

8 Years worth.

Honorably Discharged.

Now, why don't you elaborate on your career in the military - I'm looking forward to it.

Avatar and location to go on only, I'd guess skywestseth is a WO1 in Army flight school at Ft. Rucker, AL. He's probably a former NCO - most warrants in flight school are - but he could be one of the few high school to flight school guys.

And Seth, for some reason newer people come here and routinely challenge/ question Lloyd's military service. Not sure why that is, but he's legit.

How's Larry's these days, Seth? I miss that good ol' BBQ.

[Doug Taylor]

Originally Posted by Ian J

And Seth, for some reason newer people come n here and routinely challenge/ question Lloyd's military service. Not sure why that is, but he's legit.

He's a Marine. Getting questioned makes him all warm 'n fuzzy inside! Collect 'em all!

[mtsu_av8er]

Originally Posted by Ian J

Avatar and location to go on only, I'd guess skywestseth is a WO1 in Army flight school at Ft. Rucker, AL. He's probably a former NCO - most warrants in flight school are - but he could be one of the few high school to flight school guys.

Yeah, I guessed from this post, he was still a PFC. That was a while ago - so, he's been in for what, a year or two now? I hope they're teaching Warrants not to act like 2nd Lt's these days . . . I'm thinking not, though.

And Seth, for some reason newer people come here and routinely challenge/ question Lloyd's military service. Not sure why that is, but he's legit.

He's a Marine. Getting questioned makes him all warm 'n fuzzy inside! Collect 'em all!

It really does . . . and I can feel the blood rising to my head!!

[Ian J]

Originally Posted by mtsu_av8er

Yeah, I guessed from this post, he was still a PFC. That was a while ago - so, he's been in for what, a year or two now?

Ha! I'd forgotten about that thread!

I hope they're teaching Warrants not to act like 2nd Lt's these days . . . I'm thinking not, though.

Aroo?