Flying in the Air Force, Without a Pilot Slot

[alphaone]

For those who have been in the Air Force or Military in general, what are flying opportunities like for members who are not pilots? For example, a Lt. who is an ATC or Intel any given base or duty station. I know alot of these bases have flying clubs. Are they good places to build lots of time if one does not have a pilot slot? And how much do they cost?

[Mike Lewis]

Yes, they are. And you can use tuition assistance to help you with ground school.

When I was at Griffiss, I took a free ground school course, as the tuition assistance covered 100% of the ground school. The rates at the flying club are very cheap also.

My instructor was the base meteorologist and ended up getting an UPT slot after instructing at the aero club for two years. The hours he built up helped him enhance his UPT application package.

My roommate from Riddle graduated air science but because of the lack of slots in the early 90s, was assigned as a radar intercept controller. While stationed in Korea, he was a CFI over at the aero club over there and built up a tremendous number of hours. While he was ultimately unsuccessful in getting a UPT slot (that's a long story, but it boils down to politics), the hours he built ended up helping him get a business jet job after he did his 4 years in the AF.

The aero clubs are great opportunities for everyone, whether you are an instructor or a student.

[Hacker15e]

There are very, very few bases that have aero clubs anymore. They're a good deal if you can find one, though. I highly recommend using one if you're on a base that has one. I've only been to one base in my career that has one -- Maxwell.

Outside of that, there are also not very many opportunities for a non-rated officer to get much flying time. Even if you do get on something, it won't be meaningful in your logbook...

In the fighter biz -- especially in the 15E where we have a whole career field dedicated to filling our back seat -- there just aren't many opportunities for someone to jump in the 'pit. When there are, it's for a specific reason, like an incentive flight for a base award winner.

In contrast, when I flew AT-38s we had open cockpits every single day. We gave rides to as many people we could...anyone who had the desire to walk over to the squadron, get the requisite medical and ejection seat checkout, and show up to the brief. A lot less people took advantage of that than you'd think -- mostly it was UPT students, ROTC cadets on their summer program, or C-130 Navs from the Rescue Wing there at Moody.

[HH-60CC]

Though I don't have any real info on officer careers, I can give some insight on Aero Clubs

Here is a list of Aero Clubs throughout the Air Force and Navy

http://www-p.afsv.af.mil/Aero/Directory.htm

I belong to the Aero Club @ Kadena. They have a great program, a mix of both American and Japanese Instrcutors, 3 T-41's (C-172F/H if I remember correctly), 1 C-172P, 1 C-172RG), and a Sim. They are also looking at getting a DA-42 in the future. The Aero Club offers Ground School, PPL, Instrument, Commercial, and CFI courses. Aircraft rentals are cheaper (all wet) compared to those prices in the US and the quality of intructors are high (ranging from those who fly military aircraft to just seasoned veterans who've been flying GA all thier life). If you have anymore questions, just ask.

[fiveninerzero]

Aero clubs aren't always the greatest deal. A lot of bases had them years ago, but don't have them anymore for various reasons, such as lack of interest, funding, competition from the local FBO/airport.

Here in the town around Shaw AFB which hasn't had an aero club in about 10 years, the local FBO has the 152 for $66 an hour and the 172 is around $77 an hour, which isn't terribly bad.

Charleston AFB in SC has 172's for similar rates, plus the $25 a month membership fee.

Osan in Korea has an Aero club with about 10 172s, I believe aircraft rates there are $57.00 to $64.00 per hour and monthly dues are $22.00.

Other than that, being in the Air Force as a non-flyer is only really good for being able to make friends with people that actually do fly for the networking potential.

[alphaone]

How hard is it to get a CFI job at AERO clubs. And, any multi airplanes anywhere?

[falconvalley]

Get your CFI, move near a base that has an Aero Club and apply. They usually hire both civilians and military. Dover had a C-310 when I was there. They also had 4 T-41A's 2 T-41C's, a PA-28, and a C-177RG. IMO Aero Clubs are some of the best deals out there.

[falconvalley]

Originally Posted by Hacker15e

There are very, very few bases that have aero clubs anymore. They're a good deal if you can find one, though. I highly recommend using one if you're on a base that has one. I've only been to one base in my career that has one -- Maxwell.

Outside of that, there are also not very many opportunities for a non-rated officer to get much flying time. Even if you do get on something, it won't be meaningful in your logbook...

In the fighter biz -- especially in the 15E where we have a whole career field dedicated to filling our back seat -- there just aren't many opportunities for someone to jump in the 'pit. When there are, it's for a specific reason, like an incentive flight for a base award winner.

In contrast, when I flew AT-38s we had open cockpits every single day. We gave rides to as many people we could...anyone who had the desire to walk over to the squadron, get the requisite medical and ejection seat checkout, and show up to the brief. A lot less people took advantage of that than you'd think -- mostly it was UPT students, ROTC cadets on their summer program, or C-130 Navs from the Rescue Wing there at Moody.

So does that mean I could scurry on over to the nearest UPT base and sign up for a ride????

[frog_flyer]

shaddup, wes. You'll get your slot. Get SP or up and you're golden.

[Hacker15e]

Originally Posted by falconvalley

So does that mean I could scurry on over to the nearest UPT base and sign up for a ride????

That's a subject for an entirely different thread, but...

There is a completely different philosophy toward those open AT-38 back seats between the SUPT leadership and the IFF leadership. At a pure SUPT base, there is no way in hell any ol' joe could hop in the open cockpit.

[H46Bubba]

Originally Posted by alphaone

For those who have been in the Air Force or Military in general, what are flying opportunities like for members who are not pilots? For example, a Lt. who is an ATC or Intel any given base or duty station. I know alot of these bases have flying clubs. Are they good places to build lots of time if one does not have a pilot slot? And how much do they cost?

Okay Wes, you're just going to have to bite the bullet and make up your mind. If you want to fly in the Air Force and nothing else, I wouldn't waste your time if they're not going to give you a pilot slot, unless you just want to be an officer and a gentleman and that's all that matters.
Now if you'd be completely miserable in the AF without a pilot slot, don't waste your time, unless you owe them time, then I'd consider the reserves. If you want to fly, then continue to train the civillian route and go for the airlines. I see the struggle going on in your head. Make up your mind before it's too late and you're stuck.