Airmen as light infantry may hinder AF Mission

[surreal1221]

http://www.acc.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123037176

A senior officer at a key strategic bomber base says he hopes the Army can stop using his personnel as cannon fodder and let them concentrate on their real job of "putting bombs on target from B-1s." In a commentary that appeared in Air Combat Command's Web newsletter on Wednesday, Lt. Col. Gerald Goodfellow of the 28th Operations Group at Ellsworth AFB in South Dakota says that while he's proud of the job Air Force personnel do when they are assigned "light infantry" positions in the Army, it's not what they signed on for and he's worried it could sap the Air Force's strength. "In America's current wars the Air Force has found itself in a situation where it, in effect, has to pay for and train its Airmen to serve ground duty (a form of 'light infantry,' to quote Gen. Ronald Keys, Air Combat Command commander) and then pay to supply that light infantry with items from bullet proof vests to armored vehicles to keep them safe," Goodfellow wrote. "I believe the Air Force should spend its money on capabilities that will ensure future air dominance." Goodfellow says that since 9/11, Air Force personnel have been required to take "in-lieu-of taskings" to fill gaps in Army ranks in war zones. He says people who should be helping to ensure air superiority have "taken part in harrowing firefights and missions in support of ground (mostly Army) forces." Goodfellow says he understands the current needs of ground forces and the Air Force has been happy to help out, but he hopes it doesn't go on indefinitely. "I personally hope that all the services are currently striving to organize in a way that will largely prevent Air Force personnel from conducting 'in-lieu-of' taskings in the future," he wrote. "This is because I do not believe the Air Force should be in the business of fighting combat operations on the ground."

[Ian J]

So... many... jokes...
can't restrain....self...

But I will. If I were in the AF I'd be a bit upset about doing a ground combat role. I mean, you can't even bring your umbrella into ground combat and that would really suck!

I kid! I kid!

[Murdoughnut]

Originally Posted by ChinookDriver

So... many... jokes...
can't restrain....self...

But I will. If I were in the AF I'd be a bit upset about doing a ground combat role. I mean, you can't even bring your umbrella into ground combat and that would really suck!

I kid! I kid!

And who would guard the entrance to air shows? CAP?!

[mtsu_av8er]

LMFAO!!!!!!!!

Wow . . . every single Airman in the Air Force should be really, really embarrassed right now. The Air Force in harm's way? Waaaaaaaa!!!!

Let me go find some cheese to go with that Whine . . . .

[H46Bubba]

Hell, they're even taking sailors dfrom the Navy and putting them with Army units. I know this AD3 who got voluntold to go to this Army support unit in Iraq. He's been on three raids so far. " Hey we know you'rean aircraft powerplant mechanic, but we need you to go help the Army out. It'll be a support role and you'll have nothing to worry about!" The support unit isn't even aviation related. Wow, they're trying to plug the hole in the Army's ranks by pulling from the Air Force and the Navy. I've heard they're even making the transportation units go on patrols!

[Ian J]

Originally Posted by H46Bubba

Hell, they're even taking sailors dfrom the Navy and putting them with Army units. I know this AD3 who got voluntold to go to this Army support unit in Iraq. He's been on three raids so far. " Hey we know you'rean aircraft powerplant mechanic, but we need you to go help the Army out. It'll be a support role and you'll have nothing to worry about!" The support unit isn't even aviation related. Wow, they're trying to plug the hole in the Army's ranks by pulling from the Air Force and the Navy. I've heard they're even making the transportation units go on patrols!

Well if all the pansies out there are afraid to enlist in the Army and go to combat, we'll just take 'em from whatever service they end up in!



My honest opinion: The Army and Marines *should* do their own jobs. A little helping out when needed is fine, but too much is detrimental to all the services. But, like Bubba said, the Army is already pulling their own support people to do some serious combat missions and are running out of them.

It is really, really tough for the Army/Marines to do the job asked of them these days.

[frog_flyer]

I've heard academy grads are getting stapled on with marine and army batallions (correct unit?) and pimpin' around Iraq in humvees.

Sounds cool

[surreal1221]

Originally Posted by ChinookDriver

It is really, really tough for the Army/Marines to do the job asked of them these days.

I believe it. . . perhaps someone will realize that this mission can't be done without the people to do it. Pushing the military to damn near the breaking point is not going to make us successful.

But, like always, there will be some poor chap, willing to enlist for whatever benefits they never had before, to go and fight powerful men's wars.

Nevertheless, I'm dreading the week after I separate from the Air Force. I'm sure I'll get a paper in the mail asking me . . . err. . . telling me to report to a Fort somewhere to enlist in the Army, to go assist the Army in fighting the war on terror.

[4jul1776]

I am part of an Army unit that has a large number of Airman deployed with us to Iraq. They do everything from prison guard to infantry jobs.
It's not the fact that they cant do the mission well (for the most part there are no issues), it is the fact that we COULD NOT complete this mission without them. I find it very indicative of this botched military operation we call OIF and it's impending failure.

[surreal1221]

See, and that's the sad part.

So many of us realize that failure is the only option, yet we are being pushed beyond our breaking point. . . and for what?

It's unfortunate, but what the hell else are we suppose to do?

Anyone watched Sir No Sir yet?

[aloft]

4jul1776, you're crazy. We're winning the war in Iraq. Just stay the course. You're either with us, or against us, and therefore part of an axis of evil.

Mission accomplished.

[surreal1221]

aloft, welcome to the most distinctive group here on JC.

[4jul1776]

Originally Posted by aloft

4jul1776, you're crazy. We're winning the war in Iraq. Just stay the course. You're either with us, or against us, and therefore part of an axis of evil.

Mission accomplished.

I think you forgot your sarcasm tag.

[Timmypig]

As a former rifleman, assault pioneer, and SF trainee .... I object to this idea that any old serviceman or women can be "HEY PRESTO" instant infantry.

Bloody preposterous idea. I feel for the poor buggers being dropped into a job they aren't trained to do. What a horrid joke.

[jag]

Well, anybody who wants to joke about "Airman in a combat role" ha ha, obviously hasn't served in Iraq or Afghanistan and is just plain ignorant. Yes, Soldiers and Marines are the main ground combat force, and are doing a great job, but thousands of Airman have served ground combat roles in Iraq so far as part of the new "joint service military". Three were just killed last week in Baghdad. My Air Force transportation unit filled an Army unit convoy position and drove humvee gun trucks all over the country from Kuwait to Mosul and just about everywhere in between taking IED's and contact many, many times. Yea, the Marines and Army out there are doing a great and dangerous job kicking in doors all over Iraq, but before you make comments about Airman like myself, learn the facts. Many, but not all, Soldiers and Marines never leave the base in fact. Airman in combat ha ha! Well tell that to the widows of my guys Tech Sgt. Norton and Staff Sgt. McElroy, who burned in one of our humvees north of Baghdad after being hit with an IED.

SrA Bal.

[surreal1221]

The point is, the Air Force, unless it is a special operations units, should not be doing ground warfare.

It is too bad that the Army and Marines are being stretched too thin, and are unable to fill THEIR billets to put boots on the ground.

I think the Lt. Col's opinion on the matter is one that many in the Air Force agree with, but will be less open about it for the reason the Lt. Col. was not. . . rank.

Jag,

If you feel someone was joking about it, take it to a PM. No reason to bring it into the public light. We tend to be a very friendly group of individuals here and would love to keep it going. A simple PM to someone telling them you think they took it too far usually works. Very best

[jag]

Well I don’t mean to start a conflict, but after serving in Iraq as a ground troop, I get fired up when people write stuff bashing something they don't have all the information about (As in, "The Air Force in harm's way? Waaaaaaaa!!!!"). I guess everyone can express their opinion though and that is fine. My very best to you and all the users of JC also.

[surreal1221]

It's the usual Marine & Army vs. Air Force bashing. It just so happens, that all of us are in harms way. Nothing more.

[Ian J]

Originally Posted by jag

Well, anybody who wants to joke about "Airman in a combat role" ha ha, obviously hasn't served in Iraq or Afghanistan and is just plain ignorant. Yes, Soldiers and Marines are the main ground combat force, and are doing a great job, but thousands of Airman have served ground combat roles in Iraq so far as part of the new "joint service military". Three were just killed last week in Baghdad. My Air Force transportation unit filled an Army unit convoy position and drove humvee gun trucks all over the country from Kuwait to Mosul and just about everywhere in between taking IED's and contact many, many times. Yea, the Marines and Army out there are doing a great and dangerous job kicking in doors all over Iraq, but before you make comments about Airman like myself, learn the facts. Many, but not all, Soldiers and Marines never leave the base in fact. Airman in combat ha ha! Well tell that to the widows of my guys Tech Sgt. Norton and Staff Sgt. McElroy, who burned in one of our humvees north of Baghdad after being hit with an IED.

SrA Bal.

Hey bud, inter-service rivalries have a long and harmless tradition. Joking is joking - get over it.

And if you read this thread, you'll see that jokes aside, most people want the Air Force to do their job, not the Army's and Marines. We realize the AF is getting screwed by having to do jobs they were never intended to do, and were not properly trained for. We are on your side.

I am very sorry for friends you lost over there. I lost friends too. I know how it feels.

But if someone announced Army grunts were being tasked to maintain fighter jets, I'd laugh my ass off.

[SeatClutcher]

Originally Posted by aloft

4jul1776, you're crazy. We're winning the war in Iraq. Just stay the course. You're either with us, or against us, and therefore part of an axis of evil.

Mission accomplished.

This is HILARIOUS!

[Ian J]

Originally Posted by jag

Well I don’t mean to start a conflict, but after serving in Iraq as a ground troop, I get fired up when people write stuff bashing something they don't have all the information about (As in, "The Air Force in harm's way? Waaaaaaaa!!!!"). I guess everyone can express their opinion though and that is fine. My very best to you and all the users of JC also.

And what you don't know, is that plenty of people on JC have served in Afghanistan AND Iraq.

People in this thread, actually.

[4jul1776]

Iraq x 3 for me

[mtsu_av8er]

Originally Posted by jag

. . . I get fired up when people write stuff bashing something they don't have all the information about (As in, "The Air Force in harm's way? Waaaaaaaa!!!!").

Fire it up, baby . . . fire it up!

Nice to meet you. I'm Lloyd, Sergeant (former), USMC, Machine Guns section, 2nd Battalion, 7th Marines, 1st MARDIV.

I think that I MIGHT have at least a little bit of credibility. I could be wrong, though.

[PositionAndHold]

Jag check your pm's


Funny thing is the AF has been doing this kind of thing for quite a while. I was in from '94-'98 as an Electrical Power Production Specialist. I went to Kuwait at the end of '96 (A few months after the Khobar Towers bombing) for 5 months. We went to Ali Al Saleem AB. We were the first unit to deploy there and we built the first tent city. We were much closer to the border then the Army base down the road. I also was in Korea for my last year, but I was stationed on an Army base and supported a joint Comm mission. There were also a couple guys that were Foward Air Controlers (TACP I think) None of them had ever been stationed at an army base, and one had been in 18 years.

[jag]

Originally Posted by mtsu_av8er

I think that I MIGHT have at least a little bit of credibility. I could be wrong, though.

Yea man, sounds like a statement somebody with credibility about OIF would make.