Army Aviators, is there a loophole for fixed wing?

uh60james · November 12th, 2006, 22:58

I want to fly fixed wing when I get out, but I heard a rumor that there is some secret squirrel way to go direct to fixed wing. Any know truth to this? No need to advertise it on this site, send me a PM. Thanks.

Ian J · November 13th, 2006, 08:12

After you get out, or through the Army?

After you get out, no. You have reduced requirements if you have your Rotorcraft - Helicopter w/ Inst FAA certificate.

See FAR 61.73 for rules for former military pilots.

I have made the transition to fixed wing flying and am a CFII, so if you have any specific questions feel free to ask!

uh60james · November 13th, 2006, 10:23

Hey ChinookDriver. I guess my question wasn't real clear, I'm a 15T right now and am planning on going to a school to get my wings when I get out. However if there is some way to go direct to fixed wing in the Army I would gladly stay in and let the Army pay for it. I know if there is a way it is not well advertised. Just looking for some info on it if it is available or a contact at Rucker or wherever the Army does its fixed wing training. Thanks.

Ian J · November 13th, 2006, 11:04

Oh.. that's different.

There is not a way to go direct to fixed wing... you have to be accepted to flight school, go through rotary wing training, and then hope you are the 1% who is accepted to fixed wing training. Other than that, as a helo warrant you can apply via 4187 to fixed wing after you have some experience... seen a few go that way.

mward · November 21st, 2006, 18:15

I don't really understand what the fascination is with being an army pilot and wanting to fly fixed wing aircraft. There are other branches of the military that have primarily fixed wing aircraft that you can join. Most of them, if not all, require a four year degree and so do airlines. I've been around army aviation for a few years now and I can personally say that I would take the Blackhawk over the C-12 (Kingair) or a C-23 (flying box) any day.

Ian J · November 21st, 2006, 18:21

Yeah, flying fixed-wing for the Army is usually something that just "happens" to people... it usually isn't, or can't be, a plan. I've said it before, but the Army is all about helicopters.

311 · November 21st, 2006, 19:50

You can be right seat in a King Air 90/200 in the civillian world with as little as 400 hours and a com/multi rating. If your heart is set on flying turbo props, maybe Army isn't the best choice lol.

Biggyj81 · October 1st, 2007, 08:58

Hey, well I am a Apache guy in the Army and was recently picked up for the Fixed Wing course. Let me tell ya man, if there was a quick way into fixed wing in the Army, I think i would have found it! I have to agree with a lot of the other replies, if you want to fly fixed wing exclusively, choose a different branch!!!!! The fixed Wing board is extremely competitive, at least on the Warrant officer side of the house. If your a commissioned guy, the quickest way into a FW slot is to go to the MI career course. I have two Captain buddies who got in that way. But for your average Army pilot the chances of getting fixed wing is pretty small...so go AIR FORCE

!!! Another thing to think about is if you do choose the Army, when aircraft selection rolls around, you may end up getting stuck with something you don't want...I am guessing since your a 60 guy then you probably want 60's. Well there is a shortage of Apache guys in the Army, so you may end up getting one. And if you do get Apache's, well then your chances of getting FW are even slimmer. And if you do get selected, the Army has a hard time letting its Apache guys go to fixed wing utilization tours. you may get one, you may not!..believe me..lol

But they will gladly let you go to the FW course and give you that 5 year ADSO that comes along with it! Hoped this helped your decision a little bit. If you have any questions just give me a holler.

skywestseth · October 1st, 2007, 13:00

If you get on with an OSA guard unit you can go direct fixed wing....there is your loophole!!!

Also we have,

Citations and Gulfstreams as well as Kingair's and Sherpa's

falconvalley · October 1st, 2007, 14:06

Saw a very nice lookin' Army G-IV or V on the road a few days ago. Can't blame someone for trying.

BCTAv8r · October 2nd, 2007, 12:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by 311

You can be right seat in a King Air 90/200 in the civillian world with as little as 400 hours and a com/multi rating. If your heart is set on flying turbo props, maybe Army isn't the best choice lol.

I never understood why someone would join the military to fly an airframe that could also be flown in the civilian world.

skywestseth · October 2nd, 2007, 16:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by BCTAv8r

I never understood why someone would join the military to fly an airframe that could also be flown in the civilian world.

Because, in the military, you get top notch training, and it doesn't cost you a dime...among other reasons...

and

attack aircraft being the exception almost every airframe can be flown civilian side...

ezplt · December 5th, 2007, 10:27

Uh60james,

I have to ask what your ultimate goal is before answering, is it to be commerical FW pilot? Believe it or not your idea about getting out and going to a flight school (especially with the aid of the GI bill) is probably better than getting army FW, because even though it is free it isn't necessarily getting to you to your goal quickly, and timing is EVERYTHING in this business. At any rate...

Unfortunately, there is no "double secret" way to get a fixed-wing transition in the army. However, it is possible. First, I think it was Biggy who mentioned branching MI if you are a commissioned guy, that will probably be your best bet. Its certainly not a sure thing, but I flew in the MI and met alot of RLOs that did it that way. In fact, though I was a warrant officer, if I didn't get FW I was going to OCS and try and branch MI. Luckily I didn't have too. A few years back some guys were branching Medical Service Corps and getting fixed-wing, although I have no idea why and would do alot of research before trying this avenue.

Your next best option would be the route skywestseth said, find an OSA guard unit that will bring you on board. If you do not have any friends in these units that are run by the state this is going to be a tough route because it is very nepotistic. They usually have plenty of folks cold calling them who are already FW rated and can start in the unit immediately, whereas they would have to spend the money to send you to the FW course and you would be unavailable to the unit for several months while you were there. Along those same lines are the USAR FW units. They may be a little less "good ole boy" than state guard units but that is still a part of them. They are having a tough time getting enough guys willing to deploy though, and it can't hurt to try and call them and make some contacts. Be sure to emphasize that you will take whatever thankless job no one wants (S4) and will deploy with a smile on your face. An obvious drawback to any reserve/guard job is that it is part time and you will need a full time job. Which brings me to one other option: Active Guard Reserve (AGR). Do some research on this but this is a great option. The downfall here is that you aren't already FW rated and if you are selected you will most likely go to a helo unit, but, you may be able to get in the system and work your way into one of the reserve FW units later on.

Lastly, I would seriously look at going USAF, depending on your age. If you are still say, 23-25 it MAY be worth the effort. The downside being you will have a 10 year commitment after flight school (remember the part about getting to your goal quickly?!). Now, if you had a buddy in a USAFR or Air Guard unit who would be willing to help you out this would be a decent option as well. You could go to Undergraduate Pilot Training (UPT), go to a USAFR unit, and due to the OPTEMPO fly your behind off and make contacts with airline guys in your unit. Most units I know of(except for fighter units) are flying so much you don't even need a civilian job.

Now, I know what you are thinking, you protest, "I don't have all these supposed 'buddys' and 'connections'!" You most likely don't. If you want to be a commercial pilot you are going to have to go out of your comfort zone and make them. Any opportunity you have talk to Air Force guys, or Army FW guys is golden. Ask how they did it. Get some advice from them and make some friends, or at least acquaintances.

Well james I hope that helps you somewhat. Good luck in your journey.

ezplt, USAR, CW4 (Ret.)

November 12th, 2006, 22:58	#1
uh60james Newbie Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 18	Army Aviators, is there a loophole for fixed wing? I want to fly fixed wing when I get out, but I heard a rumor that there is some secret squirrel way to go direct to fixed wing. Any know truth to this? No need to advertise it on this site, send me a PM. Thanks.

November 13th, 2006, 08:12	#2
Ian J Old Skool Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Manchester, CT Posts: 5,739 Blog Entries: 7	Re: Army Aviators, is there a loophole for fixed wing? After you get out, or through the Army? After you get out, no. You have reduced requirements if you have your Rotorcraft - Helicopter w/ Inst FAA certificate. See FAR 61.73 for rules for former military pilots. I have made the transition to fixed wing flying and am a CFII, so if you have any specific questions feel free to ask! __________________

November 13th, 2006, 10:23	#3
uh60james Newbie Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 18	Re: Army Aviators, is there a loophole for fixed wing? Hey ChinookDriver. I guess my question wasn't real clear, I'm a 15T right now and am planning on going to a school to get my wings when I get out. However if there is some way to go direct to fixed wing in the Army I would gladly stay in and let the Army pay for it. I know if there is a way it is not well advertised. Just looking for some info on it if it is available or a contact at Rucker or wherever the Army does its fixed wing training. Thanks.

November 13th, 2006, 11:04	#4
Ian J Old Skool Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Manchester, CT Posts: 5,739 Blog Entries: 7	Re: Army Aviators, is there a loophole for fixed wing? Oh.. that's different. There is not a way to go direct to fixed wing... you have to be accepted to flight school, go through rotary wing training, and then hope you are the 1% who is accepted to fixed wing training. Other than that, as a helo warrant you can apply via 4187 to fixed wing after you have some experience... seen a few go that way. __________________

November 21st, 2006, 18:15	#5
mward Newbie Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: san marcos, tx Posts: 12	Re: Army Aviators, is there a loophole for fixed wing? I don't really understand what the fascination is with being an army pilot and wanting to fly fixed wing aircraft. There are other branches of the military that have primarily fixed wing aircraft that you can join. Most of them, if not all, require a four year degree and so do airlines. I've been around army aviation for a few years now and I can personally say that I would take the Blackhawk over the C-12 (Kingair) or a C-23 (flying box) any day.

November 21st, 2006, 18:21	#6
Ian J Old Skool Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Manchester, CT Posts: 5,739 Blog Entries: 7	Re: Army Aviators, is there a loophole for fixed wing? Yeah, flying fixed-wing for the Army is usually something that just "happens" to people... it usually isn't, or can't be, a plan. I've said it before, but the Army is all about helicopters. __________________

November 21st, 2006, 19:50	#7
311 Newbie Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 6	Re: Army Aviators, is there a loophole for fixed wing? You can be right seat in a King Air 90/200 in the civillian world with as little as 400 hours and a com/multi rating. If your heart is set on flying turbo props, maybe Army isn't the best choice lol.

October 1st, 2007, 08:58	#8
Biggyj81 Newbie Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Ft. Rucker Alabama Posts: 3	Re: Army Aviators, is there a loophole for fixed wing? Hey, well I am a Apache guy in the Army and was recently picked up for the Fixed Wing course. Let me tell ya man, if there was a quick way into fixed wing in the Army, I think i would have found it! I have to agree with a lot of the other replies, if you want to fly fixed wing exclusively, choose a different branch!!!!! The fixed Wing board is extremely competitive, at least on the Warrant officer side of the house. If your a commissioned guy, the quickest way into a FW slot is to go to the MI career course. I have two Captain buddies who got in that way. But for your average Army pilot the chances of getting fixed wing is pretty small...so go AIR FORCE!!! Another thing to think about is if you do choose the Army, when aircraft selection rolls around, you may end up getting stuck with something you don't want...I am guessing since your a 60 guy then you probably want 60's. Well there is a shortage of Apache guys in the Army, so you may end up getting one. And if you do get Apache's, well then your chances of getting FW are even slimmer. And if you do get selected, the Army has a hard time letting its Apache guys go to fixed wing utilization tours. you may get one, you may not!..believe me..lol But they will gladly let you go to the FW course and give you that 5 year ADSO that comes along with it! Hoped this helped your decision a little bit. If you have any questions just give me a holler.

October 1st, 2007, 13:00	#9
skywestseth Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Greenbow Posts: 447	Re: Army Aviators, is there a loophole for fixed wing? If you get on with an OSA guard unit you can go direct fixed wing....there is your loophole!!! Also we have, Citations and Gulfstreams as well as Kingair's and Sherpa's __________________

October 1st, 2007, 14:06	#10
falconvalley Old Skool Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: KMKE Posts: 1,945	Re: Army Aviators, is there a loophole for fixed wing? Saw a very nice lookin' Army G-IV or V on the road a few days ago. Can't blame someone for trying. __________________ British Airways flight asks for push back clearance from terminal. Control Tower replies: "And where is the world's most experienced airline going today without filing a flight plan?"

December 5th, 2007, 10:27	#13
ezplt Newbie Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Atlanta Posts: 3	Re: Army Aviators, is there a loophole for fixed wing? Uh60james, I have to ask what your ultimate goal is before answering, is it to be commerical FW pilot? Believe it or not your idea about getting out and going to a flight school (especially with the aid of the GI bill) is probably better than getting army FW, because even though it is free it isn't necessarily getting to you to your goal quickly, and timing is EVERYTHING in this business. At any rate... Unfortunately, there is no "double secret" way to get a fixed-wing transition in the army. However, it is possible. First, I think it was Biggy who mentioned branching MI if you are a commissioned guy, that will probably be your best bet. Its certainly not a sure thing, but I flew in the MI and met alot of RLOs that did it that way. In fact, though I was a warrant officer, if I didn't get FW I was going to OCS and try and branch MI. Luckily I didn't have too. A few years back some guys were branching Medical Service Corps and getting fixed-wing, although I have no idea why and would do alot of research before trying this avenue. Your next best option would be the route skywestseth said, find an OSA guard unit that will bring you on board. If you do not have any friends in these units that are run by the state this is going to be a tough route because it is very nepotistic. They usually have plenty of folks cold calling them who are already FW rated and can start in the unit immediately, whereas they would have to spend the money to send you to the FW course and you would be unavailable to the unit for several months while you were there. Along those same lines are the USAR FW units. They may be a little less "good ole boy" than state guard units but that is still a part of them. They are having a tough time getting enough guys willing to deploy though, and it can't hurt to try and call them and make some contacts. Be sure to emphasize that you will take whatever thankless job no one wants (S4) and will deploy with a smile on your face. An obvious drawback to any reserve/guard job is that it is part time and you will need a full time job. Which brings me to one other option: Active Guard Reserve (AGR). Do some research on this but this is a great option. The downfall here is that you aren't already FW rated and if you are selected you will most likely go to a helo unit, but, you may be able to get in the system and work your way into one of the reserve FW units later on. Lastly, I would seriously look at going USAF, depending on your age. If you are still say, 23-25 it MAY be worth the effort. The downside being you will have a 10 year commitment after flight school (remember the part about getting to your goal quickly?!). Now, if you had a buddy in a USAFR or Air Guard unit who would be willing to help you out this would be a decent option as well. You could go to Undergraduate Pilot Training (UPT), go to a USAFR unit, and due to the OPTEMPO fly your behind off and make contacts with airline guys in your unit. Most units I know of(except for fighter units) are flying so much you don't even need a civilian job. Now, I know what you are thinking, you protest, "I don't have all these supposed 'buddys' and 'connections'!" You most likely don't. If you want to be a commercial pilot you are going to have to go out of your comfort zone and make them. Any opportunity you have talk to Air Force guys, or Army FW guys is golden. Ask how they did it. Get some advice from them and make some friends, or at least acquaintances. Well james I hope that helps you somewhat. Good luck in your journey. ezplt, USAR, CW4 (Ret.)

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