Tons of Questions Regarding the Air Force

RobS · March 4th, 2006, 16:36

Just a little background on me. Currently I've been out of school for about a year, I graduated high school and went to community college. I only completed one semester and didn't enjoy it. I decided to persue work. Right now I'm a ramp agent for Southwest. I recently transfered with the company from BDL to BWI to make more money with the OT. While I enjoy it and have a lot of fun, I see no career as a ramper. I'm sure in 20 years, I'll have no interest in it, so I've been looking into college alternatives and the air force came up.

Like most people on this board, I'm really into flying and being around airplanes. Since I do not have a degree, I must settle for non flight careers, and the air force has a few that interest me. The flight engineer position interests me the most. Anyone have any experience with the air force career or know anyone who has? What could I do with this training after the air force?

Also I am interested in avionics and aircraft technician careers through the air force. How good are they with preparing you for non military aviation mechanical careers? How prepared would I be for the A&P tests and how desirable would I be to the airlines such as ASA or Air Whisky?

Last choice would be ATC. How is that within the military? Also is the tranistion to the real world ATC easy and does the FAA actively hire ex air force controllers?

Thanks for all the help,
Rob

fsuflyer · March 4th, 2006, 18:38

ATC is one of the best, if not the best, job to have without a college degree...

http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/Careers/0...o.degree.jobs/ (proof)

Either way, you should still go to college and get a degree. College will be the four best years of your life, hands down. Don't limit yourself.

MDPilot · March 4th, 2006, 19:20

Flight engineer in AF = dying career field
Flight engineer post AF = essentially nothing

HH-60CC · March 5th, 2006, 20:30

I would highly suggest not getting into the maintenance career field for the Air Force. PM me if you want more details.

HH-60CC · March 5th, 2006, 20:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by MDPilot

Flight engineer in AF = dying career field
Flight engineer post AF = essentially nothing

MD, why would you say it's a dying career field? Just curious, thats all.

aloft · March 5th, 2006, 21:45

One word (well, acronym): FADEC.

Mike Lewis · March 6th, 2006, 09:06

I'd recommend looking into being a weapons controller/radar operator in an AWACS or JSTARS.

You get to fly, you are controlling aircraft similar to ATC (although your job is to bring them closer instead of keeping them apart), and you'll get some IT and C2 experience which can translate into college credit and future marketability in an outside career.

There is also boom operator, but I am not sure if that has any post-AF marketability.

My most recent experience has been with working with weapons controllers, both on the ground and in the air. They are some of the sharpest people I have met, and it is, IMHO, one of the best jobs in the AF.

rickyrhodesii · March 6th, 2006, 09:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobS

Last choice would be ATC. How is that within the military? Also is the transition to the real world ATC easy and does the FAA actively hire ex air force controllers?

Last choice ATC?!? Are you kidding me?!? That should be your first choice!

Your current situation sounds a lot like me 5 years ago. I tried the whole college thing too. Unfortunately it took me a few semesters and a few thousand dollars later to realize it wasn't for me at that time. Since then, I've now made a decent career as an AF air traffic controller.

I'd recommend you read the following thread regarding Air Force ATC:
Info on AF ATC: (Going into the Air Force...?)http://forums.jetcareers.com/showthread.php?t=23805
Info on Transition: (ATC requirements)http://forums.jetcareers.com/showthread.php?t=22964

Let me know if you have further questions!

Kato · March 6th, 2006, 11:38

You should look into the Baltimore Air National Guard. They operate out of Martin State Airfield. They have C-130J's, and if you like to fly, you can enlist as a loadmaster. It is truly one of the best enlisted jobs you can have, ESPECIALLY if you want to be an aviator. That unit is on the BRAC list however and are scheduled to lose their C-130s in a couple of years. They will still have A-10's, but that won't do you any good if you want fly. Something you should look into though. Good luck with your decision.

GirlInTraining · March 6th, 2006, 17:32

Rob:

I was enlisted (medical) in the AF reserve, then transitioned to pilot within my home unit, flying C-130s. Being a flight engineer is probably one of the best enlisted flying gigs out there, but MikeD is right - as the C-130E/H fleet is aging, there are less slots to be filled. However, once you finish tech school, you may test for the FAA A&P certificate - the course prepares you very well to pass, and your in-depth knowledge of an airframe will suit you well for life in a/c maintenance after the military. Becoming a flight engineer, however, requires previous experience, preferably crew chief/maintenance, or extensive civilian A&P experience. Not sure of the specifics, so that would be a question to ask a recruiter.

Being a loadmaster or boom operator is also great if you like flying itself, but neither lend themselves well to outside (civilian) work. Two other career fields that haven't been mentioned are airfield management and command post. Airfield management works with scheduling, TERPS, NOTAMS, etc. Command post is a mixed bag of administrative stuff, working with some intel, and coordinating flight operations.

ANY military experience is valuable, and you will be surprised at how much responsibility you have, and how you can apply that to any career field.

MDPilot · March 7th, 2006, 08:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by HH-60CC

MD, why would you say it's a dying career field? Just curious, thats all.

Fifteen to twenty years ago, the largest requirements for Flt Eng were in the following acft: C-130, C-141, C-5, KC-135, vibrant career field with lots of opportunities

Civilian world: Professional Flt engineer positions were still in vogue at several airlines

Today: C-17 no Flt Eng requirement
C-130J no Flt Eng requirement
C-130 other than J slowly retiring airframes
C-141 all retired
C-5 retiring early models, remainder going to Guard and reserve
KC-135 cockpit modernizations in progress that reduce need for Flt Eng

Civilian world: Passenger airlines in US have all but totally retired B-727 , DC-10 and early B-747 airframes, largest requirements for Flt Eng

Large freight (FedEx and UPS) Flt Eng positions are crewed by new hire pilots, not career Professional Flt Eng

Small freight, and some other countries still fly some B-727 and other airframes with Prof Flt Eng, but employment is spotty, and subject to seasonal furlough.

Does all this sound like a job to place your bets on for the
future?

BTW, GirlinTraining, I'm not MikeD, I'm Mike H.

SibePilot311 · March 7th, 2006, 18:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by MDPilot

KC-135 cockpit modernizations in progress that reduce need for Flt Eng

For clarity, the VIP transport and other non-AR -135s had flight engineers. The KCs had a crew of 4....Aircraft Commander (Captain), Co-Pilot (First Officer), Navigator and Boom Operator. The glass cockpit mod put the navs on the street.

MDPilot · March 7th, 2006, 19:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by SibePilot311

For clarity, the VIP transport and other non-AR -135s had flight engineers. The KCs had a crew of 4....Aircraft Commander (Captain), Co-Pilot (First Officer), Navigator and Boom Operator. The glass cockpit mod put the navs on the street.

True, most of my exposure to -135 type airframes was at the Test Wing at WPAFB in the late 80's - early 90's.

HH-60CC · March 8th, 2006, 02:48

MDPilot: You forgot about a helicopter FE's

There will always be a need for someone to push buttons and fire the .50 cal

How long do you think the FE career field will last? I was going to use that and Loadmaster as backups for cross training...

MDPilot · March 8th, 2006, 04:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by HH-60CC

How long do you think the FE career field will last? I was going to use that and Loadmaster as backups for cross training...

Loadmaster will be around as long as the AF carries cargo (long time). FE will be essentially gone in 10 years, I predict. Any time you get down to only one or two airframes needing a career field, it's dead as a "career".

aloft · March 8th, 2006, 16:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by MDPilot

Loadmaster will be around as long as the AF carries cargo (long time). FE will be essentially gone in 10 years, I predict. Any time you get down to only one or two airframes needing a career field, it's dead as a "career".

Helo FEs are essentially glorified door gunners anyway. They don't really perform the "traditional" duties of an FE (engine management) anymore.

GirlInTraining · March 8th, 2006, 17:29

Sorry MDPilot, I saw "M" and "D" and had a brain freeze.

It's a shame to lose crew positions to the automated systems on most newer planes out there. If you try to take away my FE, you'll have to pry my cold dead fingers off his flight suit.

SibePilot311 · March 8th, 2006, 18:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by MDPilot

True, most of my exposure to -135 type airframes was at the Test Wing at WPAFB in the late 80's - early 90's.

Andy Sizemore, John Thompson?

SibePilot311 · March 8th, 2006, 18:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by GirlInTraining

Sorry MDPilot, I saw "M" and "D" and had a brain freeze.

It's a shame to lose crew positions to the automated systems on most newer planes out there. If you try to take away my FE, you'll have to pry my cold dead fingers off his flight suit.

Actually, I kind of liked not having an FE. When I went from KC-135s to C-141s, I found the pilots to be generally ignorant about their systems (to their credit, they were better navigators

). The Lear was even better. Simple jet, but the two pilots did it all.

SibePilot311 · March 8th, 2006, 18:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by GirlInTraining

Sorry MDPilot, I saw "M" and "D" and had a brain freeze.

It's a shame to lose crew positions to the automated systems on most newer planes out there. If you try to take away my FE, you'll have to pry my cold dead fingers off his flight suit.

BTW...."Girl in Training"..."Member since 2001"....something doesn't jive

GirlInTraining · March 9th, 2006, 09:28

Well, I had another username before I went through UPT. I'll probably change it back when I'm done with FTU. At any rate, it feels as though I have done nothing besides flight training (civilian and military) for the last five years.

SibePilot311 · March 9th, 2006, 19:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by GirlInTraining

Well, I had another username before I went through UPT. I'll probably change it back when I'm done with FTU. At any rate, it feels as though I have done nothing besides flight training (civilian and military) for the last five years.

Ahhh, life doesn't truly begin until you start signing for the jet. I'm jealous that you still have all those days ahead of you.

Ortini159 · March 14th, 2006, 22:29

Whatever you do DO NOT, I repeat DO NOT go in open general!
I was naive at 18 and the recruiter told me I could be a firefighter if I went in open general. Yeah, I was a SP (security) for four really long years. Half of which was in the sandbox!

rickyrhodesii · March 15th, 2006, 17:11

Couldn't have said it better. If you choose to enlist...have a guarenteed job! It may take a little more work on your part, but it's well worth it. Just ask Ortini159!

06Flyer · March 16th, 2006, 09:45

Why not go to college , get a degree and get a commission and fly?

March 4th, 2006, 16:36	#1
RobS Junior Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 36	Tons of Questions Regarding the Air Force Just a little background on me. Currently I've been out of school for about a year, I graduated high school and went to community college. I only completed one semester and didn't enjoy it. I decided to persue work. Right now I'm a ramp agent for Southwest. I recently transfered with the company from BDL to BWI to make more money with the OT. While I enjoy it and have a lot of fun, I see no career as a ramper. I'm sure in 20 years, I'll have no interest in it, so I've been looking into college alternatives and the air force came up. Like most people on this board, I'm really into flying and being around airplanes. Since I do not have a degree, I must settle for non flight careers, and the air force has a few that interest me. The flight engineer position interests me the most. Anyone have any experience with the air force career or know anyone who has? What could I do with this training after the air force? Also I am interested in avionics and aircraft technician careers through the air force. How good are they with preparing you for non military aviation mechanical careers? How prepared would I be for the A&P tests and how desirable would I be to the airlines such as ASA or Air Whisky? Last choice would be ATC. How is that within the military? Also is the tranistion to the real world ATC easy and does the FAA actively hire ex air force controllers? Thanks for all the help, Rob

March 4th, 2006, 18:38	#2
fsuflyer Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: TLH Posts: 105	ATC is one of the best, if not the best, job to have without a college degree... http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/Careers/0...o.degree.jobs/ (proof) Either way, you should still go to college and get a degree. College will be the four best years of your life, hands down. Don't limit yourself. __________________ bye bye--CV

March 4th, 2006, 19:20	#3
MDPilot Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Southeast US Posts: 766	Flight engineer in AF = dying career field Flight engineer post AF = essentially nothing __________________ Mike

March 5th, 2006, 20:30	#4
HH-60CC Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Arkansas Posts: 525	I would highly suggest not getting into the maintenance career field for the Air Force. PM me if you want more details. __________________ My Logbook http://www.logshare.com/log.jsp?emai...spam@gmail.com - Mike

March 5th, 2006, 21:45	#6
aloft Old Skool Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Inside your OODA loop Posts: 6,810	One word (well, acronym): FADEC. __________________ Commercial Pilot, ASEL/AMEL/IA 900+ TT/25 ME Mountain-qualified Search & Rescue/Disaster Relief Mission Pilot, Civil Air Patrol B.S., Psychology, Univ of Utah

March 6th, 2006, 09:06	#7
Mike Lewis Shadow Administrator Join Date: Jul 1998 Location: Between KFCM and KMSP Posts: 6,227	I'd recommend looking into being a weapons controller/radar operator in an AWACS or JSTARS. You get to fly, you are controlling aircraft similar to ATC (although your job is to bring them closer instead of keeping them apart), and you'll get some IT and C2 experience which can translate into college credit and future marketability in an outside career. There is also boom operator, but I am not sure if that has any post-AF marketability. My most recent experience has been with working with weapons controllers, both on the ground and in the air. They are some of the sharpest people I have met, and it is, IMHO, one of the best jobs in the AF. __________________ uggc://jjj.enagfvalbhecnagf.pbz HSNYEEXXFSUSMQFKVSLTUIMQDVGVPHCXAKS Mr. Pibb + Red Vines = Crazy Delicious Understanding is a three-edged sword.

March 6th, 2006, 11:38	#9
Kato Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Vance, AFB... for now Posts: 77	You should look into the Baltimore Air National Guard. They operate out of Martin State Airfield. They have C-130J's, and if you like to fly, you can enlist as a loadmaster. It is truly one of the best enlisted jobs you can have, ESPECIALLY if you want to be an aviator. That unit is on the BRAC list however and are scheduled to lose their C-130s in a couple of years. They will still have A-10's, but that won't do you any good if you want fly. Something you should look into though. Good luck with your decision.

March 6th, 2006, 17:32	#10
GirlInTraining Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Lounging in Pyjamas Posts: 69	Rob: I was enlisted (medical) in the AF reserve, then transitioned to pilot within my home unit, flying C-130s. Being a flight engineer is probably one of the best enlisted flying gigs out there, but MikeD is right - as the C-130E/H fleet is aging, there are less slots to be filled. However, once you finish tech school, you may test for the FAA A&P certificate - the course prepares you very well to pass, and your in-depth knowledge of an airframe will suit you well for life in a/c maintenance after the military. Becoming a flight engineer, however, requires previous experience, preferably crew chief/maintenance, or extensive civilian A&P experience. Not sure of the specifics, so that would be a question to ask a recruiter. Being a loadmaster or boom operator is also great if you like flying itself, but neither lend themselves well to outside (civilian) work. Two other career fields that haven't been mentioned are airfield management and command post. Airfield management works with scheduling, TERPS, NOTAMS, etc. Command post is a mixed bag of administrative stuff, working with some intel, and coordinating flight operations. ANY military experience is valuable, and you will be surprised at how much responsibility you have, and how you can apply that to any career field. __________________ Flying is hours and hours of boredom - interspersed with moments of stark terror.

March 8th, 2006, 02:48	#14
HH-60CC Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Arkansas Posts: 525	MDPilot: You forgot about a helicopter FE's There will always be a need for someone to push buttons and fire the .50 cal How long do you think the FE career field will last? I was going to use that and Loadmaster as backups for cross training... __________________ My Logbook http://www.logshare.com/log.jsp?emai...spam@gmail.com - Mike Last edited by HH-60CC; March 8th, 2006 at 03:11.

March 8th, 2006, 17:29	#17
GirlInTraining Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Lounging in Pyjamas Posts: 69	Sorry MDPilot, I saw "M" and "D" and had a brain freeze. It's a shame to lose crew positions to the automated systems on most newer planes out there. If you try to take away my FE, you'll have to pry my cold dead fingers off his flight suit. __________________ Flying is hours and hours of boredom - interspersed with moments of stark terror.

March 9th, 2006, 09:28	#21
GirlInTraining Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Lounging in Pyjamas Posts: 69	Well, I had another username before I went through UPT. I'll probably change it back when I'm done with FTU. At any rate, it feels as though I have done nothing besides flight training (civilian and military) for the last five years. __________________ Flying is hours and hours of boredom - interspersed with moments of stark terror.

March 14th, 2006, 22:29	#23
Ortini159 Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: ATX, in the air one way or another Posts: 49	Fyi Whatever you do DO NOT, I repeat DO NOT go in open general! I was naive at 18 and the recruiter told me I could be a firefighter if I went in open general. Yeah, I was a SP (security) for four really long years. Half of which was in the sandbox!

March 15th, 2006, 17:11	#24
rickyrhodesii Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Southwest Asia... Posts: 405	Great Advice! Couldn't have said it better. If you choose to enlist...have a guarenteed job! It may take a little more work on your part, but it's well worth it. Just ask Ortini159! __________________ Rick

March 16th, 2006, 09:45	#25
06Flyer Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Atlanta, GA, USA Posts: 33	Why not go to college , get a degree and get a commission and fly?

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