ROTC and Airline pilot

[B767]

My ultimate goal in life is to be an airline pilot. I am in my last semester of high school and will be attending ERAU in AZ and am currently in line for an Army ROTC scholarship. I realize there is more to life then just flying and I've often thought about being in the Airborne or Air Assault...which is why I'm thinking army. However, a friend's dad (an MD-11 FO for FedEx) told me that this choice willhinder my flying (i assume he means in terms of reaching the airlines at a relativley young age). However i view it as i can do ROTC, be in the Army for 4 years and get out when I'm 26, which leaves me 34 years of my life designated to flying regionals, majors, or freight. What are you opinions about this?

Taylor

P.S. I cannot fly in the Air Force because i have 20/200 vision (or right around that), however i have been told that i can still fly helos in the Army.

[kab322]

Well, you could do that, but there's a couple of catches. First, there is probably a extended commitment once you graduate Helo pilot school, (not sure what it is, I know in the Air Force it is 10 years for pilot, 7 for navigator) so you there's a good chance you will be in the Army more than 4 years. Moreover, once you get out, you would still have to get all of your ratings for fixed wing aircraft AND get fixed wing time. Many airlines prefer fixed wing time as opposed to helo and may not count some of your helo time from the Army as part of your total time. BUT, I know that some flight schools, such as Pan Am International Flight Academy ( http://www.panamacademy.com/career.asp?ID=135) have transition programs to get all your fixed wing ratings and time. Hope this helps! Good Luck!

[Ian J]

Kab322 is right... there is a longer commitment for Army aviators. It is actually 6 years, but it begins AFTER flight school (a critical fact unknown to me until too late!).

Being an Army Aviator has its ups and downs... Up: You'll never get to fly the way we do in the civilian world. Down: Well, you'll probably do all that fun flying in a really un-fun place.

But I am 31, will be getting out soon, and am not worried about transitioning to the fixed-wing world. 30 is the new 20 anyhow, right?

If you have any specific questions, B767, feel free to ask.

Oh yeah... check on that 20/200 thing... it depends on whether you are near or far sighted.

[falconvalley]

The AF is accepting waivers for 20/200 and better as long as it's correctable to 20/20. That's just the acuity of your eyesight, though. There are limits on your refractive error, too. My advice is talk to a AF medic who knows what the vision requirements are, ask them what kind of comprehensive eye exam you need to find out and get one. It's well worth the 150-200 dollars to get the results and take them to a real AF medic or AF Opthamologist and find out for yourself what your options are. Worth way more than just hearing 2nd hand what the requirements are. Trust me, it's worth your time. There are so many different measurements in the Initial Flight Physical (even the vision part is complicated) that you wouldn't know unless you have been checked. After that, you can decide if eye surgery is even needed and if you'd consider that. Last time I looked it up, the AF takes 200 people a year who've had refractive surgery (only PRK was accepted until the end of 2005 and now LASIK is being worked into the Initial Pilot Program) and might even accept more in the future, who knows.

[Casper]

I have known too many to bag Army ROTC or active duty to get out and go fly...If you have the desire to fly, my advice, peace out with the Army and do what you can to get into aviation.

[UH60driver]

Good advice here,

My advice is talk to a AF medic who knows what the vision requirements are, ask them what kind of comprehensive eye exam you need to find out and get one. It's well worth the 150-200 dollars to get the results and take them to a real AF medic or AF Opthamologist and find out for yourself what your options are

Falconvalley is right. Talk to the flight surgeons, they can give you some useful and more accurate information. Do research. The military branches have medical research websites where they publish their data on vision tests. Don't just go get eye surgery. Depending on the branch of service you seek, the allowed types of surgery may differ. The point in this paragraph is "go directly to the source and get the facts".

Kab322 is right... there is a longer commitment for Army aviators. It is actually 6 years, but it begins AFTER flight school (a critical fact unknown to me until too late!).

That is partly true about the Army aviator. It is different for commissioned officers as it is for warrant officers. The average is six years, but some commisioned officers get five years and others have no commitment, such as some OCS graduates (that is a flaw in the system). On the other hand, the commitment may not be towards the aviation branch but as an officer. Research about the contract you will get if you go into aviation.

Moreover, once you get out, you would still have to get all of your ratings for fixed wing aircraft AND get fixed wing time. Many airlines prefer fixed wing time as opposed to helo and may not count some of your helo time from the Army as part of your total time.

More thruth in these responses. That last quote is where our fixed wing counter parts have the greater advantage over helicopter aviators. As an Army aviator you are rated in helicopters only (unless you get a fixed wing transition). While, on the civilian side, the requirement of hours to obtain the fixed wing certificates and ratings are less for a rated pilot than a non-pilot, the requirement for the employers need to be met. However, more and more companies are accepting the experience of helicopter pilots. Such examples are pilots with Part 135 experience, turbine flight time, and (the best one) helicopter multi-engine. It all depends on the company and what they are willing to allow.

Being an Army Aviator has its ups and downs... Up: You'll never get to fly the way we do in the civilian world. Down: Well, you'll probably do all that fun flying in a really un-fun place.

I dig you, Chinookdriver.

Luis

[LostComm]

It is quite possible to get fixed wing ratings in the Army as a helo driver. The program is only open to commissioned officers (not warrants) and involves leaving your Aviation Branch for Military Intelligence Branch, usually as a senior first lieutenant or junior captain. You'd go to the MI advanced course (or whatever it's called now) and then go get fixed wing ratings and fly specialized Army aircraft such as Guardrail or physical surveillance assets.

Tough program to get into, but does exist.

-LC

[UH60driver]

It is quite possible to get fixed wing ratings in the Army as a helo driver. The program is only open to commissioned officers (not warrants)

The fixed wing transition is open to warrant officers as well. I have seen more FW warrants than commissioned officers. As far as the change of branch, it used to be that only commissioned officers would transfer branches, while the warrant officers remained part of the warrant officer corps. That may have changed after the Army placed the warrant officers into the branch they were serving.

Luis

[UH60driver]

I realize there is more to life then just flying and I've often thought about being in the Airborne or Air Assault...which is why I'm thinking army.

Taylor, I must mention this: the eyesight requirements for the Airborne and/or air assault are different from aviation. If you get surgery on your eyes, the Army would probably not allow you to jump. At least, that was a brief my class received during the vision class when I went through FLT school. Research that topic.

Luis

[LostComm]

Originally Posted by UH60driver

The fixed wing transition is open to warrant officers as well. I have seen more FW warrants than commissioned officers. As far as the change of branch, it used to be that only commissioned officers would transfer branches, while the warrant officers remained part of the warrant officer corps. That may have changed after the Army placed the warrant officers into the branch they were serving.

Luis

I stand corrected! I thought it was only opened to guys who went to MIOAC...sorry!
-LC

[BCTAv8r]

What do they mean by "if your vision is correctable to 20/20"? Unless you are blind, shouldn't everybody's vision be able to get corrected to 20/20 with glasses or surgery?

[SibePilot311]

Originally Posted by BCTAv8r

What do they mean by "if your vision is correctable to 20/20"? Unless you are blind, shouldn't everybody's vision be able to get corrected to 20/20 with glasses or surgery?

No, there are some vision abnormalies that cannot be fully corrected for. I'm not sure what all they are.

[Doug Taylor]

Originally Posted by BCTAv8r

What do they mean by "if your vision is correctable to 20/20"? Unless you are blind, shouldn't everybody's vision be able to get corrected to 20/20 with glasses or surgery?

Nope!

[B767]

So if i were to do ROTC at any "major" aviation universities such as UND or ERAU...what are the chances of actually flying in the military?

Taylor

[MDPilot]

Competition for available AFROTC pilot slots is extremely high at aviation universities, because of sheer numbers of people desiring UPT slots at a univ that specializes in aviation. The competition for pilot slots, while still quite strong, would be less at a non aviation school.

[B767]

Anyone know about the Navy..what the chances of that are? I saw the requirements of 20/400 (im 20/200) and you can wear soft contact lenses (which i do...fits me!)

Taylor

[scramjet]

Originally Posted by falconvalley

The AF is accepting waivers for 20/200 and better as long as it's correctable to 20/20. That's just the acuity of your eyesight, though. There are limits on your refractive error, too. My advice is talk to a AF medic who knows what the vision requirements are, ask them what kind of comprehensive eye exam you need to find out and get one. It's well worth the 150-200 dollars to get the results and take them to a real AF medic or AF Opthamologist and find out for yourself what your options are. Worth way more than just hearing 2nd hand what the requirements are. Trust me, it's worth your time. There are so many different measurements in the Initial Flight Physical (even the vision part is complicated) that you wouldn't know unless you have been checked. After that, you can decide if eye surgery is even needed and if you'd consider that. Last time I looked it up, the AF takes 200 people a year who've had refractive surgery (only PRK was accepted until the end of 2005 and now LASIK is being worked into the Initial Pilot Program) and might even accept more in the future, who knows.

Vision waivers, huh? Any knowlege if the Coast Guard is doing this? I've looked at joining them. I know their requirements are less (20/50) but my vision (uncorrected) is worse than that.

[SibePilot311]

Originally Posted by B767

Anyone know about the Navy..what the chances of that are? I saw the requirements of 20/400 (im 20/200) and you can wear soft contact lenses (which i do...fits me!)

Taylor

That's only 'cause the AF must maintain a history of superior pilots!

[ROFCIBC]

Originally Posted by B767

My ultimate goal in life is to be an airline pilot.... However i view it as i can do ROTC, be in the Army for 4 years and get out when I'm 26, which leaves me 34 years of my life designated to flying regionals, majors, or freight. What are you opinions about this?Taylor

(emphasis added)

The key is how much time you want to spend being an "airline pilot"? Lifetime earnings? Retirement goals? Satisfying work environment? The list is virtually endless.

A lifetime of aviation is just that, a lifetime of aviation. Your goals, aspirations and even timing may change. May be due to your own choice, or NO choice due to external events.

I started out in the active duty Air Force. Was going to do that for a long time, no idea about airlines, no desire, no knowledge, no nothing. I was focused on a career as an Air Force pilot. Along about the second year I decided to keep my options open so established a date of separation. (back then you were "indefinite" by default unless you asked for a DOS) Like I said, I wanted options. Still had no plans to get out, to do something else, just options.

Went to Vietnam, came back, pulled my DOS as I still didn't have any sure fire things I wanted to do outside the Air Force.

Then I got offered a regular commission at the 7 year point. (I came in via ROTC so had a reserve commission). Took it and now back to the "Air Force as a career" mode.

Got promoted to Major at 12 years, but liked flying and saw that "Northern Tier Desk Job" looming. "Career broadening" they call it. At the same time I had a chance to become a full time reservist, back in good 'ol Indiana. (They were giving the Guard/Reserves KC135s and I was a SAC training school instructor so had the prerequisites) Out of the active duty, into the reserves/civil service...turned down the promotion to Major.

Couple of years later back on active duty to go to Air Command & Staff College, then back into the reserve/civil service thing and the KC10 program.

Six years later that same reserve/civil service program I joined so I could stay in the cockpit, wanted me to move back to Indiana and a "staff job".

Fortunately I had a wonderful opportunity to go with Delta Air Lines. (was 44 at the time) Made the move. Stayed on as a "classic reservist" in the KC10 and retired seven years later.

Now just a plain 'ol Delta Air Lines pilot. Did that for 9 more years and retired at 60.

So what's the point of all this?

A career in aviation can have a lot of twists and turns. Opportunities come and go. Plans change. Your goals and aspirations might change.

I would caution you against a "in by 26, 34 years to go" plan. (IMHO the age 60 rule will go away!) Be flexible, especially at your age. Leave your mind open and free. You may like the military and stay...or get out...and back in...and out again. In short, have a goal, but at your age don't make it hard and fast, in timing or even what you want to do. You have a lot of years in front of you. You will experience a lot of things. Keep a flexibility in what you want in case one of those experiences leads to a different path.

[ClipperPilot]

Try www.airwarriors.com
They have tons of info regarding military aviation. Dont just get depressed over second hand info. Talk to a military flight surgeon, get facts. There are other programs besides ROTC by the way. Freshman and soph. in college are eligible for the PLC program by the Marine Corps which is not ROTC. This program guarantees you a seat in flight school. RESEARCH!! Cant emphasize that point more. Dont base decisions on what someone says. There are many ways to a seat in flight school, just do the research, and make the phone calls. You also have to remember that flying for the military means you are an officer first, pilot second, but you sound like thats what your interested in anyway. Good Luck!

[pilotnate23]

Remember also that there are alot of other jobs in the military that can keep you in the aviation side of the house. I too was disqualified from pilot because of my eyesight, but I think I have a job that's the next best thing. My job, airfield operations, is a combination of air traffic control and airfield management. My previous knowledge from flying has definitely helped plus I've learned alot from the ATC side which has been helpful in my flying. Remember, just having military experience on your resume is a good thing. It shows you are disciplined, dedicated, and have good leadership potential (not necessarily leadership skills...but that's a whole other story). Hope this helps!

- Nate