Navy CWO Aviator Program

draglink · January 21st, 2006, 00:30

http://www.npc.navy.mil/NR/rdonlyres...0/NAV06031.txt

JimmyK · January 21st, 2006, 00:33

awww, you beat me to it. I was just about to post this same thing. Any prior Navy guys thinking about getting back in now?

aloft · January 21st, 2006, 05:27

The B scale finally comes to the Navy....

mtsu_av8er · January 21st, 2006, 09:30

GatorFC · January 21st, 2006, 15:16

My sentiments exactly, Lloyd. Why didn't they have a program like this when I was still in?

I seem to remember reading about the "Flying Chiefs," an all enlisted squadron, in the early (pre WWI) days of Naval Aviation.

I've been out of the loop for a couple years now, but I thought that the Navy didn't need pilots and was actually releasing some Academy grads from their commitments (scuttlebutt?). Any thoughts as to the reasoning behind this program? If I'm reading that message correctly, the Navy is looking for guys whose only job is to fly and not worry about having to fly a desk for a few years. Sounds like fun to me.

mtsu_av8er · January 21st, 2006, 18:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by GatorFC

My sentiments exactly, Lloyd. Why didn't they have a program like this when I was still in?

I might have had a crazy moment and put on my wig and dancing shoes to come over to the dark side!!

[/quote]

skywestseth · January 22nd, 2006, 13:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by aloft

The B scale finally comes to the Navy....

Start explaining

-SethL

shooter13 · January 22nd, 2006, 14:03

Age 27 requirement. BLAH!!! I wouldn't have passed the physical anyways but an interesting idea. I can't imagine that many E-5s will be selected and most E7s I knew had their degree already. Wonder what kinda of position they will hold in the squadron. Would have been nice to not go from Chief to Ensign.

shooter13 · January 23rd, 2006, 22:39

Perhaps I am wrong, I haven't looked at the pay scales in a few years but if I as a E& would have been selected for CWO, I would have made significantly more money a year than a new Ensign assigned to my same FRS simpluy based on time in service.

mtsu_av8er · January 24th, 2006, 00:04

I remember looking at the Wo program - I'd have made more than a brand new Second Lewey, but not more than one with my TIS!!!

shooter13 · January 24th, 2006, 06:42

But your time in service was makingup for your lack of formal edumacation.

Count enlistment as entering a special bridge program... LOL

jtrain609 · January 24th, 2006, 10:16

As someone stated, why does the Navy need the pilots? I was also under the impression that the Navy didn't have the need to retain any more pilots than they currently do. Are they ramping up for something?

mtsu_av8er · January 24th, 2006, 11:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shooter13

But your time in service was makingup for your lack of formal edumacation.

Yeah, but they'd never be able to break me out of those nasty Sergeant habits! I drink beer out of the bottle, tell dirty jokes in front of women and like the hang out with the enlisted men!

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Herreshoff

As someone stated, why does the Navy need the pilots? I was also under the impression that the Navy didn't have the need to retain any more pilots than they currently do. Are they ramping up for something?

You never know with those guys. The folks in manpower (at least that's what we called them in The Corps) were always trying to plan for 5 years from now.

H46Bubba · February 13th, 2006, 00:22

Damn, I missed my chance! Took them long enough, though I am a little puzzled as to what their rational is for this move. I was gonna start doing the jig, till I realized I was over 27 and that they gave me the boot for medical. Oh well I'll just keep it in my daydreams!

Grabo172 · February 14th, 2006, 22:04

Quote:

B. ENLISTED PERSONNEL FROM SEAL, SWCC, EOD, DIVER, NUCLEAR, AND
MA COMMUNITIES ARE NOT ELIGIBLE FOR THIS PROGRAM.

If you look at the fine print... NUKES NEED NOT APPLY... they don't want our kind...

I actually wrote to ask about waivers, haven't heard anything back yet. Go figure. I told them, the nuclear field is losing a sailor in me anyway, but the navy could KEEP THIS sailor if a nuke waiver could be issued to apply. (I guess I'd need an age waiver too, but the nuke thing rubs me in all the wrong places)

DOWN WITH THE NUKES!!!!

mtsu_av8er · February 14th, 2006, 23:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grabo172

I told them, the nuclear field is losing a sailor in me anyway, but the navy could KEEP THIS sailor if a nuke waiver could be issued to apply.

Dude, sometimes they don't really think that far ahead. In my last year or so in The Corps, there was an open Career Planner billet with The Second Battalion, Seventh Marines Regiment, in 29 Palms, CA. Completely disgusted with the Air Wing (it was almost The Navy . . .

), I was eager to gete back into an Infantry Battalion. I was ready to sell my soul to the Devil to have morning PT and real daily formations again!!

Well, I met all of the requirements, and was very willing. The Billet had been open for 7 months - who wants to go to an Infantry Battalion in the middle of nowhere?? I talked to my Monitor, and he was good to go with it. However, my unit wouldn't release me. My Squadron Career Planner told me that I could request a PCS after 5 years on station (I had 3-1/2) because they couldn't afford to lose me (I've still never really been replaced . . . HAHA). I told him that regardless of whether or not they gave me orders, I was going to be gone by year's end (EAS). He told me that career Marines with my TIS don't just leave, and that I'd stick around.

The next time I saw him, I was checking out. Oh, he was ready to deal then!!

subpilot · February 15th, 2006, 00:37

It is amazing how flexible the military can be when you are on your way out. The problem is they wait until it is too late.

ex Navy Chief

Grabo172 · February 15th, 2006, 07:18

You'd think they'd wonder why us Navy chiefs (Subpilot, Shooter, and Me) are getting out. Heck, I'll be at my 15 year point. If they want to keep me, this CWO program would be a way, about the only way...

mtsu_av8er · February 15th, 2006, 09:49

See, Grabo, they're rolling the dice, betting that you'll stick around. Screw 'em!

H46Bubba · February 16th, 2006, 10:35

I jus talked to some friends that are still active and they jumped on this as soon as the message came out. They said a crap load are tryin to jump on this program. Bastards! Meanwhile i'll work my little job with Mesa and fly little prop planes. This program might flood the market with military pilots. Will these people make a career out of it or do a little bit more time and go fly for the airlines?

Grabo172 · February 16th, 2006, 17:23

There's only about 30 or so spots as far as I know for this first trial part of the program. The first ones picked this year will go through flight training and go out to the fleet for a few years, then they'll evaluate the program and decide of they want to continue it or not.

BE19Pilot · September 29th, 2006, 11:35

Hello,
This isn't the first incarnation of an "enlisted pilot" or "flying CPO" program that the Navy has tried. The genesis was the Aviation Pilot rating of WWII vintage; which led to the NAVCAD program followed by the LDO Aviators of the 80's and in the 90's the Navy brought back the NAVCAD program. All of these programs were great if you were at the right age, at the right time with the requisite qualifications.
The military is very short-sighted when it comes to personnel managment. I don't think that this is by design as much as it is the Pentagon attempting to repond to political policy, fiscal realities and real-world manning dilemmas. The Navy in particular in the past has been the slowest to respond to mandates from political decisions than the Army for example. However, the blood flowed freely in the ASW (I think that they call it USW nowadays) community, and it will never fully recover from the loss of highly experienced pilots, NFOs and aircrewman. Mission "creep" has also taken it's toll on expertise in USW and "blue-water ops". The bell will toll someday in the undersea arena once again, but who will answer it?
It is my hope that the Navy will finally awaken to the fact that career paths are not as important as the mission. Perhaps this new program will recognize that a 27 year old ensign in the right seat of a P-3 or it's follow-on with up to 10 years experience as an AW for instance is more valuable than the newly-minted ROTC or "Boat School" graduate.
Anyway, too late for this old dog. So, I'll be content to read about it in the papers and fly "Mighty Beech"

Regards,

ex-Navy Rotorhead
former AW1 (SH-2F/HH-2D, SH-60F/HH-60H)

January 21st, 2006, 00:30	#1
draglink Newbie Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: hampton roads,virginia Posts: 29	Navy CWO Aviator Program http://www.npc.navy.mil/NR/rdonlyres...0/NAV06031.txt

January 21st, 2006, 00:33	#2
JimmyK Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Eastern NC Posts: 121	awww, you beat me to it. I was just about to post this same thing. Any prior Navy guys thinking about getting back in now? __________________ FP AID TYP SPD FIX TIM ALT RTE

January 21st, 2006, 05:27	#3
aloft Old Skool Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Inside your OODA loop Posts: 6,873	The B scale finally comes to the Navy.... __________________ Commercial Pilot, ASEL/AMEL/IA 900+ TT/25 ME Mountain-qualified Search & Rescue/Disaster Relief Mission Pilot, Civil Air Patrol B.S., Psychology, Univ of Utah

January 21st, 2006, 09:30	#4
mtsu_av8er Old Skool Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Utopia Posts: 12,505	Wow! __________________ ------- One person says "stop gloating - life sucks!" while another says "be happy - at least you have a job!" . . . people are just stupid.

January 21st, 2006, 15:16	#5
GatorFC Old Skool Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: da' Bayou Posts: 1,685	My sentiments exactly, Lloyd. Why didn't they have a program like this when I was still in? I seem to remember reading about the "Flying Chiefs," an all enlisted squadron, in the early (pre WWI) days of Naval Aviation. I've been out of the loop for a couple years now, but I thought that the Navy didn't need pilots and was actually releasing some Academy grads from their commitments (scuttlebutt?). Any thoughts as to the reasoning behind this program? If I'm reading that message correctly, the Navy is looking for guys whose only job is to fly and not worry about having to fly a desk for a few years. Sounds like fun to me. __________________

January 22nd, 2006, 14:03	#8
shooter13 Old Skool Join Date: May 2002 Location: South Carolina Posts: 1,952	I was too old anyway Age 27 requirement. BLAH!!! I wouldn't have passed the physical anyways but an interesting idea. I can't imagine that many E-5s will be selected and most E7s I knew had their degree already. Wonder what kinda of position they will hold in the squadron. Would have been nice to not go from Chief to Ensign.

January 23rd, 2006, 22:39	#9
shooter13 Old Skool Join Date: May 2002 Location: South Carolina Posts: 1,952	Not a B scale Perhaps I am wrong, I haven't looked at the pay scales in a few years but if I as a E& would have been selected for CWO, I would have made significantly more money a year than a new Ensign assigned to my same FRS simpluy based on time in service.

January 24th, 2006, 00:04	#10
mtsu_av8er Old Skool Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Utopia Posts: 12,505	I remember looking at the Wo program - I'd have made more than a brand new Second Lewey, but not more than one with my TIS!!! __________________ ------- One person says "stop gloating - life sucks!" while another says "be happy - at least you have a job!" . . . people are just stupid.

January 24th, 2006, 06:42	#11
shooter13 Old Skool Join Date: May 2002 Location: South Carolina Posts: 1,952	True But your time in service was makingup for your lack of formal edumacation. Count enlistment as entering a special bridge program... LOL

January 24th, 2006, 10:16	#12
jtrain609 Old Skool Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Park City, UT Posts: 12,322	As someone stated, why does the Navy need the pilots? I was also under the impression that the Navy didn't have the need to retain any more pilots than they currently do. Are they ramping up for something? __________________

February 13th, 2006, 00:22	#14
H46Bubba Old Skool Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: CVG Posts: 4,212	Damn, I missed my chance! Took them long enough, though I am a little puzzled as to what their rational is for this move. I was gonna start doing the jig, till I realized I was over 27 and that they gave me the boot for medical. Oh well I'll just keep it in my daydreams! __________________ *"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants" -Thomas Jefferson*

February 15th, 2006, 00:37	#17
subpilot Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Afghanistan Posts: 692	It is amazing how flexible the military can be when you are on your way out. The problem is they wait until it is too late. ex Navy Chief __________________ Together We Served "Helicopters don't actually fly. They just beat the air into submission." -Firebird2XC

February 15th, 2006, 07:18	#18
Grabo172 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Peterborough, NH Posts: 1,271	You'd think they'd wonder why us Navy chiefs (Subpilot, Shooter, and Me) are getting out. Heck, I'll be at my 15 year point. If they want to keep me, this CWO program would be a way, about the only way... __________________ "Words Mean Things" -Jeff Zimring "Those who sacrifice liberty for security deserves neither." -Benjamin Franklin CFI / CFII "The Ultimate Thread Killer"

February 15th, 2006, 09:49	#19
mtsu_av8er Old Skool Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Utopia Posts: 12,505	See, Grabo, they're rolling the dice, betting that you'll stick around. Screw 'em! __________________ ------- One person says "stop gloating - life sucks!" while another says "be happy - at least you have a job!" . . . people are just stupid.

February 16th, 2006, 10:35	#20
H46Bubba Old Skool Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: CVG Posts: 4,212	I jus talked to some friends that are still active and they jumped on this as soon as the message came out. They said a crap load are tryin to jump on this program. Bastards! Meanwhile i'll work my little job with Mesa and fly little prop planes. This program might flood the market with military pilots. Will these people make a career out of it or do a little bit more time and go fly for the airlines? __________________ *"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants" -Thomas Jefferson*

February 16th, 2006, 17:23	#21
Grabo172 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Peterborough, NH Posts: 1,271	There's only about 30 or so spots as far as I know for this first trial part of the program. The first ones picked this year will go through flight training and go out to the fleet for a few years, then they'll evaluate the program and decide of they want to continue it or not. __________________ "Words Mean Things" -Jeff Zimring "Those who sacrifice liberty for security deserves neither." -Benjamin Franklin CFI / CFII "The Ultimate Thread Killer"

September 29th, 2006, 11:35	#22
BE19Pilot Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Roanoke Posts: 78	Re: Navy CWO Aviator Program Hello, This isn't the first incarnation of an "enlisted pilot" or "flying CPO" program that the Navy has tried. The genesis was the Aviation Pilot rating of WWII vintage; which led to the NAVCAD program followed by the LDO Aviators of the 80's and in the 90's the Navy brought back the NAVCAD program. All of these programs were great if you were at the right age, at the right time with the requisite qualifications. The military is very short-sighted when it comes to personnel managment. I don't think that this is by design as much as it is the Pentagon attempting to repond to political policy, fiscal realities and real-world manning dilemmas. The Navy in particular in the past has been the slowest to respond to mandates from political decisions than the Army for example. However, the blood flowed freely in the ASW (I think that they call it USW nowadays) community, and it will never fully recover from the loss of highly experienced pilots, NFOs and aircrewman. Mission "creep" has also taken it's toll on expertise in USW and "blue-water ops". The bell will toll someday in the undersea arena once again, but who will answer it? It is my hope that the Navy will finally awaken to the fact that career paths are not as important as the mission. Perhaps this new program will recognize that a 27 year old ensign in the right seat of a P-3 or it's follow-on with up to 10 years experience as an AW for instance is more valuable than the newly-minted ROTC or "Boat School" graduate. Anyway, too late for this old dog. So, I'll be content to read about it in the papers and fly "Mighty Beech" Regards, ex-Navy Rotorhead former AW1 (SH-2F/HH-2D, SH-60F/HH-60H)

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