Switching Airframes

[Kato]

Hypothetical question - How typical is it for a C-130 pilot lets say, transfer to a unit that flies A-10s? Is the pilot usually limited to other C-130 units only or does it just depend on the unit's need? Just curious on how that works, Thanks for any info.

[MikeD]

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Hypothetical question - How typical is it for a C-130 pilot lets say, transfer to a unit that flies A-10s? Is the pilot usually limited to other C-130 units only or does it just depend on the unit's need? Just curious on how that works, Thanks for any info.

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Very rare, and very unlikely. Transferring from transports to fighters isn't normally done, with the exception of a crossflow program that occurred in the late '90s. And that program was open only to those that had flown T-38s in UPT prior to UPT becoming specialized with the advent of the Beech T-1A for the transport/tanker track in-lieu of the T-38.

Big thing is, if you're a fully qualified and current C-130 pilot, how is it economically viable to not only switch you in airframes, but in entirely different aircraft types? Answer.....it's not. Even a guy that's current in one fighter won't generally get to go directly into a requal program for another fighter for the same reason; with some exceptions.

What if the aircraft is retired from service? Would they give you new choices or would you just be moved to another aircraft of the same utility?

[MikeD]

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What if the aircraft is retired from service? Would they give you new choices or would you just be moved to another aircraft of the same utility?

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Crapshoot.

You usually go to a desk. There's usually not enough of the new airframes for everyone to go to. Very true with Navs. When the F-4/F-111 went away, so did many Nav/WSOs go to a desk, since not all could be taken to the new F-15E. Same was true for pilots too. That's the reason the 117 community has so many LtCol F-111/F-4 leftovers.

[scoobs]

You see fighter guys go to a heavy reserve or ang unit.

[MikeD]

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You see fighter guys go to a heavy reserve or ang unit.

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Yeah, have seen that happen. But rarely the other way around.

[scoobs]

Yeah you are right I was just pointing that out.

[MikeD]

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Yeah you are right I was just pointing that out.

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But you do bring up a good point. I appreciate your point out.

[Kato]

Thank you for your replies - I would love to be able to fly the "hog" someday, The Boise Guard unit flies them and the C-130's. Transfering to that unit as a loadmaster and trying to get my commision with them might be my best option. Anyway, Thanks again!

[scoobs]

I lived in Boise and it compares nothing to Santa Cruz.

[Kato]

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I lived in Boise and it compares nothing to Santa Cruz.

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Good point!

[scoobs]

My parents got transfered from San Diego to SLC.I am now in college trying to get back.

[ROFCIBC]

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Thank you for your replies - I would love to be able to fly the "hog" someday, The Boise Guard unit flies them and the C-130's. Transfering to that unit as a loadmaster and trying to get my commision with them might be my best option. Anyway, Thanks again!

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Just to throw something in. Spent a lot of time in the reserves as a full timer and part timer.

Switching from airplane to airplane is very costly as has been pointed out. That being said, as airplanes come and go from and to the inventory it is a lot cheaper to take a current pilot, regardless of aircraft type and retrain them in new equipment, again regardless of type that start from scratch and get a new pilot.

That being said there are other considerations, like the rank structure. You've got a new officer with their entire career ahead of them. Lot's of time to "recover" that training investment. On the other side is the older officer nearing retirement. Not wise to spend a lot of time/money to train them in a new piece of equipment as there will be no "recovery" of those costs.

Fighter to heavy to fighter...that depends. One issue is the specific pilot training that now exists which has been addressed. Here at Barksdale they opened up a new B52 unit which was staffed initially by some of the A-10 pilots from down the street in the A10 unit. Also by current B52 guys just off active duty. Key here was if you were already trained in the B52 (as a reservist) you had a leg up.

By contrast when we opened up the KC10 unit in 1981 nobody was qualified in it as it was a totally new airplane. So we went out an looked for pilots who were tanker toads and ones with receiver refueling experience since the KC10 was receiver capable. While most of the pilots had previous heavy experience we did hire a couple who had A10 and F4 experience. Even a U2 troop. So it varies. Depends on what you need and who’s available!

Best advice, get that commission, get those wings, then worry about the rest of your career!

[MikeD]

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That being said there are other considerations, like the rank structure. You've got a new officer with their entire career ahead of them. Lot's of time to "recover" that training investment. On the other side is the older officer nearing retirement. Not wise to spend a lot of time/money to train them in a new piece of equipment as there will be no "recovery" of those costs.

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Interesting you bring that up, as I wasn't going to touch too much on that due to the complexity of the discussion. But you're absolutely correct. In addition, regards promotion-ability, there are other factors too. When you fly one airframe (primary airframe) you build credibility. That is, in a transport you can become AC, IP, SEFE, etc. Same with a fighter insofar as multi-ship flight lead, IP/SEFE, etc. This credibility is something that makes one more attractive on their officer proficiency reports. When one switches airframes, they start back from scratch as a wingman (fighters) or co-pilot (transports). So if one does this mid-career, they may find themselves as a senior O-3 coming up for their O-4 board, having had tons of time and been an IP in A-10s, but are only a wingman in, for example, F-16s that they're flying now.

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By contrast when we opened up the KC10 unit in 1981 nobody was qualified in it as it was a totally new airplane. So we went out an looked for pilots who were tanker toads and ones with receiver refueling experience since the KC10 was receiver capable. While most of the pilots had previous heavy experience we did hire a couple who had A10 and F4 experience. Even a U2 troop. So it varies. Depends on what you need and who’s available!

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Were you at Barksdale in '87 when the KC-10 blew up on the ramp?

[ROFCIBC]

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Were you at Barksdale in '87 when the KC-10 blew up on the ramp?

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Yes, in fact I mentioned that in my reply on the thread about accident investigations. I thought it was 1985 though. I need to go back and check the right date. I was the reserve KC10 squadron commander at the time. One of my crews had just brought that ship back from a TDY earlier that very day. Some of our crews responded to move other airplanes in the vicinity. More than a few heroes that day that prevented other planes from being destroyed.

The real tragedy was the loss of a maintenance troop in the fire. Left a wife and small son.

The investigation was made particularly difficult because the most intense part of the fire destroyed the very components they needed to pinpoint the cause. Eventually they did and made some changes to prevent a recurrence.

It was the classic chain of events as all accidents are.