Hired at Northwest!

[Velocipede]

train,

Let's see how you feel after about 5 years in the REAL airline industry. You really can learn a lot from those of us who have been around 30 years longer than you have, IF you listen a bit.

[jtrain609]

You're still missing the point.

He was baiting you to blow up at him, and you took the bait hook, line and sinker.

[Velocipede]

Sorry. You need to be a little more specific when pimping me.

[skydog]

Thanks Velocipede. for being so predictable. I knew you wouldn't leave me hanging too long.

See, here's the deal: the pilots of USAir et al. were strong union pilot groups that numbered in the tens of thousands. They had signed union contracts in effect. They did not have to agree to a thing. When the company came to them to ask for concessions, they could have just sat back and said "No Deal." Contrast that with an out of work pilot trying to put food on the table that gets hired at a start-up non-union company. Who has more power? Did you really think that little JetBlue was going to force anyone out of business?

When the bankruptcies went down, these union pilots had a choice. They could stand tall, take one for the team, and not actively contribute to the downfall of their own profession. Or they could cower before management and gratefully take the scraps that were offered in the hopes of saving their own necks. We saw what they did. (And for the record, I don't fault them. They did what was right by them. You can't expect any more than that)

Now along comes guys like you who insist that all those beneath them on the aviation food chain stand tall so that they can stand on their shoulders in order to keep their own heads above water. You vilify them for doing exactly what you did: look out for number one. Oh the hypocracy...

You can keep your "union negotiated jumpseat." I left the airline industry a year and a half ago for something better. When I travel, it's on a full fare ticket, and I bump your non-revving butt.

[Firebird2XC]

Originally Posted by Velocipede

Fbird,

You've got to forgive skydog his lack of historical perspective. Given his avatar, he's probably a retired military fighter pilot whose ego prevents him from imagining that he would ever need a Union to help him recover from one of his mistakes.

...
They're the quintessential "I got mine" operators.

Well, since they have theirs, so they can just go BUY a ticket to get to work.

>shrugs<

Agreed- the ignorant and self-entitled often provide the means for companies to ruin it for the rest of us.

It's been said that commercial helicopter flying salaries were ruined by ex-Army guys with retirement checks that didn't really worry too much about pay.

Fortunately, the trend of military aviators flowing into the civilian ranks is much thinner than it used to be.

[Maximillian_Jenius]

Originally Posted by PCL_128

The level of your ignorance is truly astounding.

...the same could be said of pilots voting for McCain on Nov 7th!

(shrugs shoulders)

[Velocipede]

Originally Posted by PCL_128

The level of your ignorance is truly astounding.

Let's just say his ignorance of how the USAir MEC works (in all their Machiavellian charm) is astounding and leave it at that.

Furloughed ex-airline pilots are a sad thing to witness.

[meritflyer]

Originally Posted by Velocipede

It would be pretty obvious to all but the most dense, especially IF you had been paying attention to recent airline history.

But since you've dragged your dead horse out (again) let's beat it one more time.

Until jetBlue came on the scene, the going rate for narrowbody Captains in the U.S. was about $190 - $200 an hour.

Along comes non-Union jetBlue. They pay their narrowbody Captains $120ish an hour and have no pension plan. They become the hometown airline of the largest media outlet in the world and consequently the media darlings. For the first couple years, they rake in the dough because of their incredibly low wage scale.

In order to compete, USAir hold a gun to the heads of the pilot group and demands wage concessions. They get them and USAir wages sink to where? Amazing. The same as jetBlue.

United uses the bankruptcy court to negate the pension plan and drop wages to where? Again, jetBlue rates.

Northwest threatens bankruptcy court and demands pay cuts to, you guessed it, jetBlue rates.

Delta, THE DAY BEFORE THE LAW CHANGES PREVENTING THIS, declares bankruptcy so they can reduce pay rates to jetBlue levels and gut the pension plan.

Is it actually possible you CANNOT see the linkage between these events? Or is it just that you are a jetBlue pilot and WILL NOT?

Because for most of us legacy pilots, the cause and effect is clear. And now, along comes outfits like Allegiant ($110), Virgin ($95) and Skybus ($65!?!) who seek to lower the bar even further.

And you can bet the airline managers are examining possible way to lower OUR PAY to those levels. And even the monkeys at jetBlue who started the whole ball rolling are not exempt. You can bet the Needleman and his cronies are eyeing that Skybus rate and looking to gut those poor spineless non-Union bastards just like they gutted the rest of the profession.

So, that's the long answer to your question. Basicly, you go to one of those scumbag outfits and you have earned the contempt of every Unionized legacy airline pilot in America. And there is NO WAY I'm extending you the UNION NEGOTIATED privilege of a jumpseat ride. Go ask one of your Non-Union scum brothers to take you to work or get you home.

NICE!!!

Glad to have a real union guy who can mentor the nay sayers about the importance [cough SkyWest].

[SteveC]

Note: off-topic posts were moved out of this thread.

http://forums.jetcareers.com/the-lav...ensorship.html

[johnso28]

Originally Posted by Cav

Got the call for a class at Northwest I'm pretty psyched!

Congrats Cav, I am also an XE alum and will be starting class at NW on February 11th, when is your class?

[viper548]

Congrats! I just got the call this week. I'm in the May 5 class. What's your date?

[Waltpilot8]

Originally Posted by Velocipede

Hopefully, you'll have job after the merger. Ask the TWA guys how theirs went.

TWA was a dying airline (sadly I liked them). This is more like the U.S. Airways-America West merger.

Congrats on the job! It must feel awesome to be at a major!