Let go... - Page 2

slushie · November 23rd, 2006, 17:04

I have always wondered about religious discrimination in hiring.

If I wanted people with Christian values, I could certainly still hire those who don't subscribe to the faith, but just explain that the company has certain back-bone policies...just like any other business...and regardless of your faith, that's how we do business.

But like...what if a muslim guy wanted to work at a christian bookstore? Their app has a non-discrimination statrement on it. So what would happen there? Would they have to say "Merry Christmas" and "Happy Easter" to all the customers? Would it be discrimination if the other employees were discussing a new book on apologetics? After all, that's just conversation about a product that's on the shelf.

But anywyas, how I would do it is just let my business be a way to show people who I am.
The end.

PS this oil guy is totally in the wrong.

slushie · November 23rd, 2006, 17:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minuteman

Not necessarily condoning it, but they do make a good chicken sammich'.

It would be hard to have a flight school closed on Sundays.

tgrayson · November 23rd, 2006, 17:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minuteman

Not necessarily condoning it, but they do make a good chicken sammich

You're right, that's one exception. I was thinking of it as I wrote what I wrote, but since it was an outlier data point, I threw it out.

It messed up the trend line.

Still, I bet some people on the company are counting all the loot they're missing by being closed on Sunday.

slushie · November 23rd, 2006, 17:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by tgrayson

You're right, that's one exception. I was thinking of it as I wrote what I wrote, but since it was an outlier data point, I threw it out.

It messed up the trend line.

Still, I bet some people on the company are counting all the loot they're missing by being closed on Sunday.

i really think that commitment has added to the bottom line...it made fans.

tgrayson · November 23rd, 2006, 18:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by slushie

i really think that commitment has added to the bottom line...it made fans.

That may well be. Even so, it's human nature to want to have the cake and eat it too.

Texasspilot · November 23rd, 2006, 18:47

take the plane...park it in a field....tell him you might remember something if only you had a little money to eat with....then kick him in the nuts.

surreal1221 · November 23rd, 2006, 20:02

Chick-Fil-A has many Christian values, and they are not shy to talk about it. BUT. . . they do not hire people that are ONLY Christian. They hire individuals from all creeds, and do not discriminate (like this Oil business). Chick-Fil-A has the act down correct, and they are not losing customers because of it.

You shouldn't lose quality employees simply because they do not subscribe to your religious view/values.

killbilly · November 23rd, 2006, 20:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by ready2fly

Not to play Devil's advocate, but.....

Good luck proving his motives for letting you go.

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe TX is a "Right to Work" state....meaning - you can be fired if the boss doesn't like the color of your shirt (hyperbole intended).

Best of luck. Seriously.

Quote:

Originally Posted by meritflyer

"At will employers"

Dont need a reason or justification for letting you go.

Quote:

Originally Posted by moxiepilot

i understand tx is an at will state as most are, what i have a problem with is not getting paid, not the fact it i was canned for unknown reasons.

Correct on both counts. However, right to work or not, the simple threat of facing legal action should be enough for the employer to cough up what is rightfully owed the employee in this case. Add to the fact that we are told frequently on JC that aviation is a very small world - a bad rep could have some serious repercussions on the man's business. He would be wise to honor his obligations to Moxie for many reasons.

Plus, right to work or not, if religious discrimination could be proved, state labor laws don't trump federal equal rights laws, as I recall.

kellwolf · November 23rd, 2006, 22:04

TX is a right to work state, but IMO, repeatedly forcing religion down your throat at work is harassment. I think there's a law against that, even in TX.

Curiously, basing a business' ethics from the Bible falls into line with many other religions as well.....

Doug Taylor · November 23rd, 2006, 22:08

Non sequitor: Does anyone else find it weird that states with "right to work" laws are pretty much states where you can get fired for anything, at any time, for any reason with little recourse!?

Sean_S · November 23rd, 2006, 22:26

Keep in mind in a right to work state you can be fired for a reason or no reason at all but not an illegal reason. You don’t even have to use the harassment card, employment termination based on religious belief or lack of is illegal. Get a lawyer to get your money back and then slap him with a law suit and offer an out of court settlement.

Captain_Bob · November 23rd, 2006, 23:04

From what I understand...

That same "Right to work" law actually helps folks here in TX who sign a contract and think they are beholden to it. For instance... if a 135 operator here has you sign a 1 year contract... but you get hired by a regional after 4 months, and the 135 operator tries to make you pay back your training costs per the contract... then you can fight it and that same law works in your favor.

Basically the Right to work law allows an employer OR an employee to terminate the work relationship at any time without cause... again... this is from what I understand. I could be WAY off base here, but that is what has been described to me in the past.

Bob

killbilly · November 24th, 2006, 10:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Bob

From what I understand...

That same "Right to work" law actually helps folks here in TX who sign a contract and think they are beholden to it. For instance... if a 135 operator here has you sign a 1 year contract... but you get hired by a regional after 4 months, and the 135 operator tries to make you pay back your training costs per the contract... then you can fight it and that same law works in your favor.

Basically the Right to work law allows an employer OR an employee to terminate the work relationship at any time without cause... again... this is from what I understand. I could be WAY off base here, but that is what has been described to me in the past.

Bob

Bob's got it.

Moxie - lawyer up, man. If you can't afford it, offer to trade services - give the guy a couple of flying lessons in exchange for writing a demand letter. But get your money man.

pilot602 · November 24th, 2006, 10:32

Or just walk away and sell the Oil info to the highest bidder.

Doug Taylor · November 24th, 2006, 10:38

And demands letters aren't really a whole lot. In another legal issue, I had a cease-and-desist order on queue and it really wasn't going to cost a lot at all.

LoadMasterC141 · November 24th, 2006, 10:54

Dude,
What a raw deal. Amazing what hypocrites some "good christian folks" are.

My company has in its' mission statement "Core Christian Values", which I think is ridiculous to advertise, as the majority of our customers are conveinence store owners, many from other countries that are not Christian.

I have yet to see any religous stuff in the officeplace though. Certainly, seeing as most of the leaders are the usual shady corporate types (Cheat on wives when travelling), they would be more condemned than myself, and I would love to call them on it.

Anyway, I would take whatever path is going to cost this guy the most money. Call a couple rival oil companies and find out what the info would be worth. He seemed so bothered as you described that I bet it could be worth alot. If not, get a lawyer. With the evidence you have already, you could put forth a very persuasive case.

killbilly · November 24th, 2006, 10:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoadMasterC141

Call a couple rival oil companies and find out what the info would be worth. He seemed so bothered as you described that I bet it could be worth alot. If not, get a lawyer. With the evidence you have already, you could put forth a very persuasive case.

Oooh....while that sounds attractive (and I don't think LM141 is actually serious about this) I urge you not to do this. That would be tantamount to blackmail, and there is ample case precedent for employers going after ex-employees for damaging their business. You've got the moral high ground right now - keep it.

One more thing - if you do the demand letter thing (which essentially threatens legal action) he will likely settle, but settle with his attorney drafting the letter. It is HIGHLY likely that they will ask you to sign an NDA. Not your typical business-intellectual-property NDA, but a real one, with some significant terms. And if you do sign it, you don't ever, ever talk about it again. To anyone. In any guise. On any forum.

Don't ask me how I know this.

LoadMasterC141 · November 24th, 2006, 11:06

No I was not thinking of having him call oil companies and then tell his ex-boss to see if he will pay more. That is extortion. I was thinking just call the other oil companies to see what they would pay for the information.
Not sure, but I did not think that was illegal. Certainly not a nice thing to do, but this guy is not playing nicen either.

killbilly · November 24th, 2006, 11:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoadMasterC141

No I was not thinking of having him call oil companies and then tell his ex-boss to see if he will pay more. That is extortion. I was thinking just call the other oil companies to see what they would pay for the information.
Not sure, but I did not think that was illegal. Certainly not a nice thing to do, but this guy is not playing nicen either.

Depends on whether the information is deemed "proprietary" by the employer or the employer's contractor. If it's drilling sites, I would think yes, but I really don't know.

Doug Taylor · November 24th, 2006, 11:12

In fact, I just remembered. The attorney I used in my "take down your website or we'll have you fired" case is in Texas. If you want a referral, let me know.

LoadMasterC141 · November 24th, 2006, 11:13

Yeah good point.

We have a rival company in the business I am in now. I have contacts (Friends) there noone here knows about. They would pay alot of money for certain information. Probably illegal to do so, and I am more ethical than that to actually do it. But! If this company ever screwed me over ridiculously like Moxie has been.....all bets are off and catch me if you can!

killbilly · November 24th, 2006, 11:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoadMasterC141

Yeah good point.

We have a rival company in the business I am in now. I have contacts (Friends) there noone here knows about. They would pay alot of money for certain information. Probably illegal to do so, and I am more ethical than that to actually do it. But! If this company ever screwed me over ridiculously like Moxie has been.....all bets are off and catch me if you can!

I hear ya brother.

I work in telecom for a phone systems manufacturer. The competition is pretty fierce, and knowing how a competitor's system is equipped (and more importantly, priced) is fairly valuable information. The problem is that most of the qualified people, especially on the sales or sales engineering side, will work for one or more of these competitors at some point in the future. It behooves those of us in the business NOT to screw with an employer in this manner, because the odds are very high that we will end up working with that employer again in another capacity or partnered role of some sort. Everyone knows everyone. It's the ethics of self-preservation.

flyguy969 · November 24th, 2006, 11:36

PRAISE CHRIST!!!!!

moxiepilot · November 24th, 2006, 14:23

They say dont mess with TX. I'm sure it's very nice, but you can have it. It's a little hot, there's no place to snowboard and traffic is worse than I-5 in Seatte.

I think we should all hire Doug's friend, the TX lawyer and see if we can try to sell the state back to Mexico. Theryd only probably be about 6 people upset, and those are the ones who own some oil rigs. I say, come on, help out Mexico.

----

Since this probably wont get wrapped up until Tuesday I wont have much to post. Just keep talking about Chic Filet and David Hasselhoff n stuff.

LoadMasterC141 · November 24th, 2006, 15:49

Man you sound like me. I have been for about a year and a half now and its' too damn hot! Plus, I miss Snowboarding immensely!