Ramp work advice.

[JordanD]

I decided to pick up a second job at the class C airport here doing ramp work for the company that does the ground stuff for DL/NW. Ends with mark. My current job is lineboy at a GA field and I had a pretty steep learning curve there (my first job). It took me a while before I was comfortable with everything. Today I had my first day of training and it seemed pretty insane out on the ramp. I thought my experience with GA would help but it seems like a world of difference, almost like it'll be a little overwhelming. Does anybody who's got experience in this line of work have any advice for me?

[ASpilot2be]

Develop situational awareness for what is going on around you.

Once you get used to it, it really isnt very difficult. Here atleast it is simple. Infact today we loaded a 737-700 in remarkable time. From the time the brakes were set to the time the baggage doors were closed was 15 minutes. Luckily we had no luggage to offload.

[Joe Gremlin]

Learn to pay attention to where the wind is coming from. Always stand upwind of the single port connector and the lav hose.
Never trust the lav hose connector. Ever.
Don't drink the water out of the water truck. Ever.
When you marshal, marshal like you mean it. If your marshaling signals are timid and flakey, the crews won't trust you and they won't follow your directions. Stand up straight and make your signals strong and snappy.

When an MU2 pulls on the ramp, make yourself busy so someone else has to fuel it.
Always bond when you fuel. Its just not a corner worth cutting for the time you save.

Tips for maximizing tips:
Be Johnny-on-the-spot with charter pax. Have a crew van or golf cart wiating for the plane before its on the ramp. Be standing at the door before it opens. Have umbrellas for the pax when its raining. Give them a smile and welcome them to where ever you are. Do not ever let them touch their own baggage, always carry it from the plane to the van and from the van to their vehicle or limo/taxi. In a nutshell, make the king air pax feel like they're stepping off of a GV.

[OhioStatePilot]

Airline ramp?

-Keep your head on a swivel... ALWAYS. The airplanes will give you warning, the tugs won't...
-Things get busy, be aware of the engines. know if they're running and know the danger zones. Complacency with that kills.
- x2 on the marshalling. Follow the procedure and use the proper signals, and do it right. Crews will thank and trust you. That, and when you're walking wingtips... PAY ATTENTION to the wings and the tail!
-Drink plenty of fluids and stay hydrated. Eat when you can.

I'm sure there are a ton more, but those would be the critical ones you should learn first. It's not a hard job, but there's a lot to know to do it right, and a lot who don't do it right.

[JordanD]

Yeah, airline ramp. I've already got experience and am pretty comfortable (not complacent) on a GA ramp. The airline ramps seem like a world of difference though. One of my big concerns is how do you know when you can approach near the engines to place the cones down? I know obviously when it stops running, but I'm worried that one day I'll think it's only windmilling and it may still be running. Or say I'm wing walking on a side that requires me to walk around the plane to get back to the gate. Best to just wait until the plane's far enough away to walk behind it? I think by far the most confusing thing for me are the baggage tags. They aren't too bad but it seems like it could get confusing at times and that intimidates me a little.
I know these are questions best left to my supervisor (who I do ask a lot of questions) but I know out on the ramp some of the guys may have their own way of doing things that may not be the correct or safe way of doing it.
One more question that I already asked in person was about the towing the CRJ. Is there an actual bypass pin on the nosewheel? If I remember right he said no, but it seems like there would have to be something to disconnect it from the tiller.

Always bond when you fuel. Its just not a corner worth cutting for the time you save.

Seems like it breaks every other week at the FBO. Last time it was because the other line guy told me to drive off to hot fuel another helicopter so he left it off and I drove over it. Turns out they didn't even want a hot fuel....

When an MU2 pulls on the ramp, make yourself busy so someone else has to fuel it.

haha, we had one of those a few months ago that sprayed fuel ALL over my manager.

Don't drink the water out of the water truck. Ever.

Our station doesn't even do potable water service, I think because the trucks are in such bad shape.

[ASpilot2be]

Originally Posted by KLOU117

One of my big concerns is how do you know when you can approach near the engines to place the cones down? I know obviously when it stops running, but I'm worried that one day I'll think it's only windmilling and it may still be running. Or say I'm wing walking on a side that requires me to walk around the plane to get back to the gate. Best to just wait until the plane's far enough away to walk behind it? I think by far the most confusing thing for me are the baggage tags. They aren't too bad but it seems like it could get confusing at times and that intimidates me a little.

1. You will know when the engine is shut off. Atleast on 737 it makes a very distinctive sound. From that point we give the engine around one minute to spool down depending on the model.
2. When walking behind the aircraft, definently give them a wide berth. On the A320 series it is a 450 foot blast zone.
3. Learning the tags comes with time.

[JordanD]

Originally Posted by ASpilot2be

1. You will know when the engine is shut off. Atleast on 737 it makes a very distinctive sound. From that point we give the engine around one minute to spool down depending on the model.

So they don't expect the cones to be placed there right away?

[ASpilot2be]

Originally Posted by KLOU117

So they don't expect the cones to be placed there right away?

Atleast not with us. Where I work if walking the right wing, as soon as the engines are shutdown you are supposed to chalk the plane, then place the cone infront of the engine.

[Joe Gremlin]

One of my big concerns is how do you know when you can approach near the engines to place the cones down? I know obviously when it stops running, but I'm worried that one day I'll think it's only windmilling and it may still be running.

Unless you're deaf, you'll know. Even with multiple engines running, you can clearly and easily hear when the engine shuts down. Once the fuel is cutoff, the danger of getting injested is pretty much gone within a few seconds. Just pay attention and respect the danger zones and you'll be fine.

Or say I'm wing walking on a side that requires me to walk around the plane to get back to the gate. Best to just wait until the plane's far enough away to walk behind it?

Never walk behind a jet when the engines are running. Don't worry too much about where you need to go and when you need to be there. The guys you're going to work with will have a system for where each position of the push team goes and what they do during each phase of the push. They'll teach you their system and they'll keep you from hurting yourself while you're learning.

One more question that I already asked in person was about the towing the CRJ. Is there an actual bypass pin on the nosewheel? If I remember right he said no, but it seems like there would have to be something to disconnect it from the tiller.

I never pushed CRJ's so I'm not sure how they're configured or whether there is more than one configuration. Its possible that there is no bypass pin. Many of the 737's I used to push didn't have one. On those planes, as long as the A-pumps were off, the nose gear would caster. Of course those planes were hunks of excrement, so on more than one occasion, the crew would have the switches off but the pumps would still come online as soon as an engine spooled up. That's when I learned what a shear pin was. Good times.

Seems like it breaks every other week at the FBO. Last time it was because the other line guy told me to drive off to hot fuel another helicopter so he left it off and I drove over it. Turns out they didn't even want a hot fuel....

Where I worked, if the bonding cable broke, the truck went offline, no questions asked. And this was not a company that kept their equipment in top shape. Not even close. In most cases, when things broke, they either stayed broke, or they got rigged so they'd sort of work again, but never really fixed. But when it came to bonding cables, no one disputed taking a truck offline. We'd flag it and it would be fixed right by the next shift. Don't fuel without bonding. Just don't do it.

[Joe Gremlin]

Originally Posted by ASpilot2be

Atleast not with us. Where I work if walking the right wing, as soon as the engines are shutdown you are supposed to chalk the plane, then place the cone infront of the engine.

Seems like that would be time consuming and expensive.

[OldTownPilot]

On the -200 you pull the torque links, and then you are fine. On the -700 the crew does whatever they need to do and theer is no pin.


each station has their 'system' so to try to tell you how things worked in BGR won't do you any good.


As for the engines, you'll hear the cutoff, and know it within a few flights.

[ASpilot2be]

Originally Posted by Joe Gremlin

Its possible that there is no bypass pin. Many of the 737's I used to push didn't have one. On those planes, as long as the A-pumps were off, the nose gear would caster. Of course those planes were hunks of excrement, so on more than one occasion, the crew would have the switches off but the pumps would still come online as soon as an engine spooled up. That's when I learned what a shear pin was. Good times.

Interesting. We use bypass pins on both the 737-200s and -700s. Sounds easier and safer than the process you mention

Originally Posted by Joe Gremlin

Seems like that would be time consuming and expensive.

I meant chaulk.

[Joe Gremlin]

Originally Posted by Joe Gremlin

Never walk behind a jet when the engines are running. Don't worry too much about where you need to go and when you need to be there. The guys you're going to work with will have a system for where each position of the push team goes and what they do during each phase of the push. They'll teach you their system and they'll keep you from hurting yourself while you're learning.

I'm quoting myself. How tacky. I just wanted to add something to this. Like I said, your crew will have a system. You'll learn their system and that's important. But what's really important is that you respect their system. If the guy on the headsets is the one who is supposed to go under and pull the pin, don't reach under and pull the pin yourself because you happen to be standing there. Doing stuff like that gets people hurt. Learn the tasks and procedures for each position and stick to them. Out on the ramp underneath a 100,000lb airplane with two engines running is not the time to experiment with switching up who does what, when.

[JordanD]

Originally Posted by ASpilot2be

Interesting. We use bypass pins on both the 737-200s and -700s. Sounds easier and safer than the process you mention


I meant chaulk.

You mean chock.
Thanks for the advice guys. I've heard that the training at my station isn't as good as some of the others (no real surprise as its a pretty small one) so hopefully everything's covered thoroughly enough.

[Joe Gremlin]

Originally Posted by ASpilot2be

Interesting. We use bypass pins on both the 737-200s and -700s. Sounds easier and safer than the process you mention

I agree. It's easy enough to use a pin. But you can only use a pin if the aircraft has the pin mechanism installed. The 737-200's that I worked with did not have any kind of pin mechanism installed. Actually I take that back, one or two of them did. And when they did, we used a pin. But most of the 73's we saw did not have the pin lockout, so leaving the a-pumps off was our only option. I don't know it was any safer with or without the pin. Both have their positives and negatives.

[JordanD]

Thanks again guys. Now if only the company could figure out what's going on with my training. I showed up today and sat around for a couple of hours before they told me to go home and wait for them to call me and tell me when to come in tomorrow. Gotta love my first taste of what's to come in the airline industry.

[Joe Gremlin]

Who are you working for? Is it an airline or an outside company under contract with an airline? Do you guys handle fuel or just ground handling and pushing?

If you haven't done so already, go shopping. A leatherman tool is a must have as is a good LED flashlight. You'll need gloves as well. Everone has their own preferrence when it comes to gloves. If you don't know what you like, buy a couple pair of different types and see what works best for you. I'm a goatskin leather man myself. But I worked with guys who liked the rawhide leather type and others who liked cotton garden gloves.

If the company doesn't provide rainsuits, get yourself one of those as well. If you have to buy your own, spend some money to get a good one.

[JordanD]

Originally Posted by Joe Gremlin

Who are you working for? Is it an airline or an outside company under contract with an airline? Do you guys handle fuel or just ground handling and pushing?

Aramark, they do the ground handling for DL, their regional carriers, and I believe NW and Chautauqua. I wanted to get on back when it was all done by Comair, but I missed my chance.

[OhioStatePilot]

Well, just remember, each A/C is different with respect to steering linkage connect/disconnect (the pin). For example, if I remember right, on the ERJ 135/140/145 series, the nose gear disconnect is electrically activated via a switch in the ground power connection panel, just fwd of the main cabin door.

Re: Engines -
You will know when they're running/not running. Just like you're familiar with a GA ramp and you can tell when a turboprop shuts down but is still windmilling, same thing with a large jet. The major difference is that the airliner is usually going to be noisier. This is going to sound really stupid, but the way I was trained for hoover jet safety was to react as if I had caught fire: stop, drop, roll. If you feel like you're getting sucked into the engine - Stop approaching the engine, Drop to the ground, Roll perpendicular to the engine. Caveat... I've never attempted this, nor have I ever placed myself in a situation requiring this, but it made sense to me and it's good to file away for future reference.

Gear:
Good light is a must! My preference is the Streamlight Stinger. If they'll let you have a leatherman, go for it, but I wasn't allowed to bring it through to the AOA... friggin crazy. Also, my glove preference is mechanix wear, the fast fit reinforced kind.

I guess the best advice I can give is to never become complacent and perform tasks automatically. Keep your mind engaged at all times and you'll be fine... and probably become a L.A. in no time.

[727to7400]

All excellent advice. Always keep your head on a swivel and always assume that you can't be seen by the person who is doing something that can kill you.

Always stay clear of flaps and slats, both yourself and the equipment. It maintenance decides to drop them before clearing, a peice of equipment will trash them. If it's a Boeing with inboard leading edge devices that will droop with no A system pressure and you are mucking around them, you will lose whatever appendage is there when someone opens the interconnect and pressurises the system.

Same with gear doors. Simple rule of thumb...it it droops, stay well clear.

Finally and MOST important. Enjoy and learn. If you're smart about it, what you take away will make you a much better pilot and crewmember in the cockpit because you'll have an understanding of what it really takes to make a trip operate.

[JordanD]

Originally Posted by 727to7400

Always stay clear of flaps and slats, both yourself and the equipment. It maintenance decides to drop them before clearing, a peice of equipment will trash them. If it's a Boeing with inboard leading edge devices that will droop with no A system pressure and you are mucking around them, you will lose whatever appendage is there when someone opens the interconnect and pressurises the system.

I was thinking about that while the guy was showing us the walk around the other day. The other guy I was with was standing right under the aileron on a CRJ700. I just stood out in the sun. Not worth risking getting bonked in the head if somebody moves the yoke or something.

[Joe Gremlin]

Originally Posted by 727to7400

Finally and MOST important. Enjoy and learn. If you're smart about it, what you take away will make you a much better pilot and crewmember in the cockpit because you'll have an understanding of what it really takes to make a trip operate.

I second this. But do not make the same unfortunate mistake one of our new hires made on his very first day. That mistake being to tell your new co-workers that you're only working here on the ramp so that you'll have a better understanding of what it's like 'for you little guys out here on the ramp when I'm working up there in the cockpit' (his exact words). Shockingly, he was not able to earn much respect from his new coworkers. As a result of that and a few other issues, his employment did not last long.

He did make a few truly impressive screw ups though which allowed the limits of his intellect to shine clearly. Some of them still make me laugh to this day when I think about them. He's the only guy I've ever seen give himself a JetA bath three separate times in sixty seconds. You'd think that after the second time he'd of stopped and listened to what I was telling instead of doing it his way because he knew better. That kid wasn't very bright.

[ASpilot2be]

Also watch out for the RAT door. The E-170s operating had them deploy while on the ground.

[JordanD]

Originally Posted by ASpilot2be

Also watch out for the RAT door. The E-170s operating had them deploy while on the ground.

Same for the CRJ's. The guy told me if it pops out and hits you it will kill you. Scares the bejesus outta me since the ground power (or something) thing is right next to it.

[JordanD]

Had my first day on the ramp today. At first it was a little confusing and I felt like I was just doing what people told me (grab that bag, etc) but I caught on to things like luggage tags and what bags go in what bin pretty quick. Pushback and marshalling+ground power hookups seem really simple too. Definitely a baptism by fire since today is probably our busiest day at SDF due to Derby traffic. All the RJ's were replaced by MD-88s.