How has the ramp made you a better pilot?

[Gumps]

What things have you learned that will make you a better pilot having worked the ramp? I know I could always tell the difference between the "Line guy"/pilots and the "This is my first job."/pilots.

[Diamnd15]

paying attention to the people driving around...even though they might be looking right at you doesn't mean there going to make an effort to avoid you...

[Pietrantonio]

I really don't think being a line guy has made me a better pilot. Rather, I have developed more of an appreciation of what line guys do to help pilots out.

[beechpilot]

Well, I can say it's helped me make better decisions when I fly. I've watched some pilots make some less than steller moves.

[roundout]

i make sure i close all the doors, access panels, and plugs in my airplane before leaving the ramp. i've seen many GPU panels and air conditioning cart hose plugs flapping in the slipstream while i worked ramp.

also you're more apt to be aware of static wicks on planes and glycol dripping from mysterious sources and messing up your clothing if you've worked ramp.

[n57flyguy]

Being at a smaller GA airport, I can't say it tought me how to fly, but gave me a better idea of what not to do and more situational awarness in an airport enviornment, that say a regular student pilot might not understand.

Some things I've seen/heard:

-Everyone has been told not to taxi on the tie downs, you don't realize what that means or how it affects an airplane till you hear a prop strike and watch a tire go flying 20ft away.
-There is no active runway, it ain't Class B airspace Piper captain....Instead I can advise a runway for you to use which the winds tell me to. Another words, you won't hear me say "Unicom what is your active (in uncortrolled airspace of course)?"
-The AFD says left hand pattern for a reason, don't fly a right hand pattern because it was the direction you came in at and its "easier".
-Pattern altitude is 1,500msl, not 1,000masl, adjust your altimeter please.
-Just because gliders have priority, doesn't mean you pull out to tow when another aircraft is on short final.
-Don't park in the middle of the ramp, blocking other aircarft from taxiing and parking, you are NOT a King Air Mr. 152 (Peebles King Air is welcome anytime though ), instead, I'm sitting in the office and monitering the unicom for that reason, so just ask.
-Don't heistate to ask anything, I may laugh because it is so common to me, but always, always, always better safe than sorry.

[fosters]

Working the line for almost three years taught me to be really thankful for the job the line guys/gals do.

Does it make you a better pilot? Maybe a little. More so, it makes you a better person. It seems that pilots that have worked the line before seem to be a bit more friendly because they know all the stuff we do.

[mojo6911]

Originally Posted by beechpilot

Well, I can say it's helped me make better decisions when I fly. I've watched some pilots make some less than steller moves.

+1

I saw some idiot handprop his plane with no one at the controls and not so much as chock on a wheel. He even had the nerve to leave it running, walk around and talk to someone for about 5 minutes, then hop in and fly.

[n57flyguy]

And I'm always glad to give help on a hand prop

[NEOHIO]

You guys have covered most of what I learned. Working on the ramp during a regional airline internship was a definite learning experience, and most things were listed above. It was better to show up with the "Bug Sponge" on every CRJ then it was to be asked for it by the pilots!

[deek]

I've learned that even pilots are human. Everyone makes errors but working as a team pilot + lineguy, keeps metal from bebding.

I saw a guy start up a conquest and then drive his truck off the ramp to park, no one inside and his dog was leashed to the rear tie down! and when he took off, he left the cabin door open. I had to call tower and have him come back to land to close it.

I've noticed some pilot like lineguys and other could car less if we eat a prop, I prefer the former.

[gomntwins]

Originally Posted by mojo6911

+1

I saw some idiot handprop his plane with no one at the controls and not so much as chock on a wheel. He even had the nerve to leave it running, walk around and talk to someone for about 5 minutes, then hop in and fly.

Is hand propping airplanes a service many... if any FBO's provide? I used to handprop airplanes for a friend of mine years ago, and quite honestly don't miss it a bit. I can't imagine doing it on an airplane and with a pilot I didn't trust.

On a sidenote, I fly a metro where the GPU plugin is on the side of the engine cowling, a horrible location-only a few feet behind the prop. Do a lot of line guys refuse service like that? If you don't like the location of a GPU plug, etc., is it easy to say no to a crew?

[Pietrantonio]

Originally Posted by gomntwins

Is hand propping airplanes a service many... if any FBO's provide? I used to handprop airplanes for a friend of mine years ago, and quite honestly don't miss it a bit. I can't imagine doing it on an airplane and with a pilot I didn't trust.

On a sidenote, I fly a metro where the GPU plugin is on the side of the engine cowling, a horrible location-only a few feet behind the prop. Do a lot of line guys refuse service like that? If you don't like the location of a GPU plug, etc., is it easy to say no to a crew?

We don't handprop airplanes. However, we do get in there to unplug the GPU. I've been there to do it for a metro as well at night.( I work the night shift). I've hot fueld a Bell 430 before, but as of now, company will only let a crew member hot fuel a helo. Other than that, we do pretty much everything crew members request.

[SY737]

Originally Posted by Pietrantonio

We don't handprop airplanes. However, we do get in there to unplug the GPU. I've been there to do it for a metro as well at night.( I work the night shift). I've hot fueld a Bell 430 before, but as of now, company will only let a crew member hot fuel a helo. Other than that, we do pretty much everything crew members request.

I haven't hot fueled anything for a while, but I love doing it. As for the GPU Ports, they always seem to be in the most dangerous spot on turboprops like the PC-12, Metros, and Caravans. The only other reason I was ever that close to a spinning prop was a guy in a little Piper who wanted to talk to me through his little window while his engine was still running.

[beechpilot]

Originally Posted by mojo6911

+1

I saw some idiot handprop his plane with no one at the controls and not so much as chock on a wheel. He even had the nerve to leave it running, walk around and talk to someone for about 5 minutes, then hop in and fly.

That's ridiculous!!!! I've seen some crazy stuff like that. Once, I saw a guy handprop a Baron 55 once. A coworker of mine saw this same pilot handprop his C185 Amphib with his 2 year old boy at the controls.

[aviatorrbt]

Originally Posted by SY737

I haven't hot fueled anything for a while, but I love doing it. As for the GPU Ports, they always seem to be in the most dangerous spot on turboprops like the PC-12, Metros, and Caravans.

On the PC12 the GPU port is behind the cargo door underneath the tail... I do not believe that is really dangerous, but that is your opinion.

To the discussion and in addition to what everyone else has said. I do feel me being a lineman has made me a better pilot. Not only have I developed a great respect for pilots, CSR, and the act of being a lineman; being a line man has let me come in contact with many many pilots and knowledge that I may not have learned if I was not a lineman...

I guess actually being a lineman has not made me a better pilot, but I would not trade my contacts and new knowledge for anything.

[Gumps]

Great posts from all of you guys. When I started the thread I had these thoughts in mind:

1. Courtesy. (enough said)

2. Procedure/etiquette. Many things like when to hangar, when to refuel, the difference between a cold engine and a dead battery, the limits of de-ice fluid, ramp safety, dealing with passengers, politics when phrasing requests with ATC, the way things work at an FBO in general. I believe the situational awareness on the ramp of pilots who have worked a ramp is superior to those who haven't, and everybody can tell.

[flyinkibblez]

exactly! being on the service side of things first definitely makes you more aware of all the hard work that goes into what you ask for later on as a pilot. i think its the small things that have made me a better pilot, or i should say just a better person.

before i flew, and did nothing but fuel planes, the small stuff like the pilots actually helping clean the interior of the planes when they were done with the flight, or moving chocks out of the way before they started up instead of just out of the way of the tire so i wouldn't have to go back up and do it after they left, are some small things i always noticed. i am talking more about our company flight dept than transient customers here...

whats funny about it is when a lineman sees that the pilot is trying to help in any way they can, most line personnel will actually go even further out of their way to help you. So helping them out, actually makes your life easier anyways... funny how teamwork works like that huh..

[compilot65]

[quote=gomntwins;797789]Is hand propping airplanes a service many... if any FBO's provide? I used to handprop airplanes for a friend of mine years ago, and quite honestly don't miss it a bit. I can't imagine doing it on an airplane and with a pilot I didn't trust.

We do not hand prop at my airport. Have seen off the wall stuff here,ever see someone hand prop a Baron,hand prop a plane on the runway because of dead battery and no brakes? Did'nt work I went out and stopped him.

[CAP_Flyer]

There are some skills that have improved. My comm radio skills and ATC procedures certainly have improved just by sitting next to a scanner for 10 hours a day.

The networking is priceless. When you see corporate/charter pilots come in day in and day out, you get seen and you get your name known. There have been several times now when I've been handed a card and told to give them a call when I get my Commercial ticket.

You certainly get a better understanding of the aircraft you're working with, especially their quirks and perks.

But can I say that this job has improved my landing and takeoff skills? No, not really. But every little bit of experience helps when working around airplanes.

Cheers!

[fly4food84]

It's helped me become more aware of ramp operations!

It's also allowed me to meet many many professional pilots who have given me loads of advice as well as some flight time. It all helps.

[Joe]

We got an ATIS in November, and a NOTAM was issued because it would be a while before it was published on all the charts. After hearing the controllers getting frustrated at all the pilots who didn't know we had an ATIS, I've had a newfound respect for checking NOTAMs before every flight. I also issued a lot of NOTAMs while we had to plow this past winter, which again reinforced this.

Also, hearing a lot of pilots who are less than stellar on the radio has made me strive to stick to standard phraseology as often as possible, which involves breaking some bad habits here and there.

[n57flyguy]

Originally Posted by Gumps

Great posts from all of you guys. When I started the thread I had these thoughts in mind:

1. Courtesy. (enough said)

2. Procedure/etiquette. Many things like when to hangar, when to refuel, the difference between a cold engine and a dead battery, the limits of de-ice fluid, ramp safety, dealing with passengers, politics when phrasing requests with ATC, the way things work at an FBO in general. I believe the situational awareness on the ramp of pilots who have worked a ramp is superior to those who haven't, and everybody can tell.

Nail on the head Gumps

[Star-Bright Aviation]

When I worked the line, I seen many things that I have been able to relate to my students as a CFI. New Years Eve, 2006, I was working the line when a Cherokee landed and taxied in. It was dark out, and the weather was Marginal VFR at best. A young girl, about 15 yrs old, jumped out of the plane. I asked her if they needed fuel. She was shaking and looked as if she could cry at any moment. She told me that they really needed fuel. I walked with her into the FBO then returned to the Cherokee. The man (who was the girl's father) was still sitting motionless in the plane. I stepped onto the wing, leaned into the plane and asked if he needed fuel. He stared straight ahead and only nodded. I went to get the fuel truck, and filled the plane. I met them both inside and told the man how much fuel I put in. 49.5 gallons. He told me that the cherokee only holds 50 gallons. They were on there way from Texas to Olathe, Kansas. He did not realize that his headwing was as bad as it was. He was IFR and told ATC that he had a fuel emergency. His daughter told me that the fuel gauges had been on empty for quite awhile. They landad with only .5 gallons of fuel remaining, IFR at night. This could have turned tragic very easily. It made a very lasting impact on me. I was staring at two people who came very close to no longer being. I tell this story to my students, not to scare them, but to instill in them the need for proper planning and how to make decisions and changes to plans to avoid ever getting into a situation like that one.

[PGT]

If I remember correctly, useable fuel on a Cherokee is 49.625 gallons.

Edit: just got out my old POH and confirmed that it is 49.625.