Looking for Job Middle East

xfearlessx · October 7th, 2009, 14:22

I am a 1 yr old FAA lic disp working in NY looking to move overseas. Looking for a job anyone that can help me out that would be great.

subpilot · October 7th, 2009, 16:06

http://www.goarmy.com/JobCatList.do?...A-09021-SMx5fg

deadringer86 · October 13th, 2009, 19:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by subpilot

http://www.goarmy.com/JobCatList.do?...A-09021-SMx5fg

No, but seriously...why do you WANT to move to the Middle East?

swisspilot · October 15th, 2009, 08:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by xfearlessx

I am a 1 yr old FAA lic disp working in NY looking to move overseas. Looking for a job anyone that can help me out that would be great.

What is your TT?

swisspilot · October 15th, 2009, 08:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by deadringer86

No, but seriously...why do you WANT to move to the Middle East?

have you been there?

SteveC · October 15th, 2009, 12:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by swisspilot

What is your TT?

I'm thinking that "...FAA lic disp..." means that he's a dispatcher, not a pilot.

Oh, and I agree with your insinuation that there are good places to live in the Middle East.

cencal83406 · October 15th, 2009, 12:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by deadringer86

No, but seriously...why do you WANT to move to the Middle East?

I would. If there was a good flying job, I'd go there in a heartbeat. There are some GREAT places to live over there.

deadringer86 · October 15th, 2009, 17:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by cencal83406

I would. If there was a good flying job, I'd go there in a heartbeat. There are some GREAT places to live over there.

Oh, I would too...if there was a good flying job. I was just surprised to see somebody actively trying to move there (assuming it's not the OP's home)

jskibo · October 15th, 2009, 18:49

I worked over in UAE, Saudi and Bahrain. Just like here there are some nice places and there are some places that are awful. Some more of a culture shock than others.

I handled business development and ran MX programs (military) over there over several years. The expat pay used to be great in that market, then everyone started underbidding each other. Last program I ran I was staffing F-15, C130 and AWACS MX and pilots. The highest paying job was AWACS Pilot and that was ~$75K, I was managing but having a hell of a time finding 7 Level MX guys willing to take a job at $28K + 50% bonus. What I got were guys running from debt or Child Support mostly.

It used to be a lucrative market $80K+ (nice housing, car, trips out of country, 30+ days vac, etc....) man has it gone downhill! And that's the skilled guys, hell I had a maid that cleaned my villa (5000 sq ft, 4 bed, 8 bath), did my laundry and ironed twice a week for $30.

granlistillo · October 16th, 2009, 12:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by deadringer86

Oh, I would too...if there was a good flying job. I was just surprised to see somebody actively trying to move there (assuming it's not the OP's home)

I got a buddy with a great flying job there, at first glance However, he is never paid on time, and never knows when he will. It has ran as late as 3 months. He has had to refuse to go back until he had reasonable answer as to back pay. It is almost always, "your paycheck will come next week INSHALLAH" Based on my limited experience in the area, and several friends with substantial experience, I would say one must be prepared for the inshallah answer. I know it is a cultural thing, but really does it take divine intervention to be paid according to the agreement at specified times???

jskibo · October 16th, 2009, 16:12

It happens all the time with TCN's (Third Country Nationals). Hell some of the slave wage guys have their passports pulled and never get a check.

Not so much with the Western Expats, but still happens. My guys were paid once a month, in Riyalhs, and at least part of that deposit had to be in a Saudi bank (same one the Direct Deposit was coming from). My folks would be paid anywhere from the 20th to the 31st. I never had a mass payroll screwup, but I did have some glitches that caused a week delay for a few guys.

Worst one was our prime was supposed to be paying GOSI and life insurance for our guys. Had one pass away in country and came to find out they were trying to save a few bucks by never paying the life premiums, hence no life policy for his wife. They ended up paying the claim out of company funds, but it took months to resolve.

Had another with a sick child run out of medical coverage (the limits are lower, but so is the costs). I had to get an air ambulance in their to get the kid back to STL. While I had it sitting on the ground (with a Doc and two nurses on the clock), the hospital wouldn't release the child until I authorized the payment of another $32K in incurred costs. Lovely!

If you do make it over there, read your contract fine print. There's a lot of details that will whack you if you don't know them (in fact you may have to sign a contract in Arabic (with a provided English translation......they often differ in their content, so find someone disintrested to read it and compare for you).

Couple things to look for:
Vacation is often stated in Calendar days, so weekends count in it.

Vacations are at their schedule, not yours.

We had an option for Y fare tickets to home, or cash in lieu (most of my guys were taking cash and going to the PI), come to find out the "option" was their option and refused further cash in lieu after the first year.

Return fare was predicated on completion of your contract, don't stay 365 days and you'll be paying your own way home (last minute price as we would boot you from the villa....no place to stay unless you got a hotel until you left). Sign a new one year contract and leave, same thing applies, not just the first year.

There was a bonus (Service award) equal to one months pay for years 1 to 5, then 60 days pay for years 6 and beyond (think of it as a lump sum pension). I had guys in country for 17 years, but they never saw 60 days. Each contract renewal restarted the clock, so you would never get the higher amount.

It was also extreme employment at will. RSAF didn't like you, you're going home, no questions. They booted one guy because he argued with a captain, another because "He looked too young to have the experience listed in his resume and training certs", another was present (ie in the hangar) when they locals pushed a wing into the hangar door (no wing walkers) of course they blamed my guy who was in the office and nowhere near the bird, and of course the idiot that got an RSAF captain drunk on compound and sent him back to his house.

No recourse to the terms as you agree to be bound by local law for employment. Want to Sue, you'll be seeing a judge in that country, guess how far you'll get?

In the end it was bare bones pay, no raises for up to 3 years, shared villa if single (many programs only allow single or unaccompanied tours), bus to work or shared vehicle, health care in country and if offered, limited coverage for family at home, no shipping, storage or other means for your US household goods (villas are furnished). Many of my guys "converted" as well so they would get the better treatment.

Interesting times over there. I had a great time running those programs, really learned a lot (like how to start a subsidiary company in Saudi Arabia), but I didn't have to put up with the crap my employees had to. I would always do it again, but from my side of the fence as before. 60 days a year in country for "town hall" meetings with my folks was enough for me.

LX40 · October 17th, 2009, 23:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by deadringer86

No, but seriously...why do you WANT to move to the Middle East?

Nothing wrong with wanting to live there in my opinion. Abu Dhabi and Dubai are quite nice depending on your lifestyle and such. Wouldn't mind flying for Etihad personally.

swisspilot · October 18th, 2009, 08:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by LX40

Nothing wrong with wanting to live there in my opinion. Abu Dhabi and Dubai are quite nice depending on your lifestyle and such. Wouldn't mind flying for Etihad personally.

I think there is much nicer places in the middle east, not so fake and with much more culture. They are just really good with advertising, the pace is not worth it....

xfearlessx · October 20th, 2009, 08:45

Still looking info/connection in finding a position in the sand

October 7th, 2009, 14:22	#1
xfearlessx Newbie Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: united states Posts: 4	Looking for Job Middle East I am a 1 yr old FAA lic disp working in NY looking to move overseas. Looking for a job anyone that can help me out that would be great.

October 7th, 2009, 16:06	#2
subpilot Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Bakersfield, CA Posts: 1,195	Re: Looking for Job Middle East http://www.goarmy.com/JobCatList.do?...A-09021-SMx5fg __________________ RIP Ben You will forever be remembered!

October 15th, 2009, 18:49	#9
jskibo Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Costa Mesa Posts: 150	Re: Looking for Job Middle East I worked over in UAE, Saudi and Bahrain. Just like here there are some nice places and there are some places that are awful. Some more of a culture shock than others. I handled business development and ran MX programs (military) over there over several years. The expat pay used to be great in that market, then everyone started underbidding each other. Last program I ran I was staffing F-15, C130 and AWACS MX and pilots. The highest paying job was AWACS Pilot and that was ~$75K, I was managing but having a hell of a time finding 7 Level MX guys willing to take a job at $28K + 50% bonus. What I got were guys running from debt or Child Support mostly. It used to be a lucrative market $80K+ (nice housing, car, trips out of country, 30+ days vac, etc....) man has it gone downhill! And that's the skilled guys, hell I had a maid that cleaned my villa (5000 sq ft, 4 bed, 8 bath), did my laundry and ironed twice a week for $30. __________________ B-25 Waist Gunner

October 16th, 2009, 16:12	#11
jskibo Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Costa Mesa Posts: 150	Re: Looking for Job Middle East It happens all the time with TCN's (Third Country Nationals). Hell some of the slave wage guys have their passports pulled and never get a check. Not so much with the Western Expats, but still happens. My guys were paid once a month, in Riyalhs, and at least part of that deposit had to be in a Saudi bank (same one the Direct Deposit was coming from). My folks would be paid anywhere from the 20th to the 31st. I never had a mass payroll screwup, but I did have some glitches that caused a week delay for a few guys. Worst one was our prime was supposed to be paying GOSI and life insurance for our guys. Had one pass away in country and came to find out they were trying to save a few bucks by never paying the life premiums, hence no life policy for his wife. They ended up paying the claim out of company funds, but it took months to resolve. Had another with a sick child run out of medical coverage (the limits are lower, but so is the costs). I had to get an air ambulance in their to get the kid back to STL. While I had it sitting on the ground (with a Doc and two nurses on the clock), the hospital wouldn't release the child until I authorized the payment of another $32K in incurred costs. Lovely! If you do make it over there, read your contract fine print. There's a lot of details that will whack you if you don't know them (in fact you may have to sign a contract in Arabic (with a provided English translation......they often differ in their content, so find someone disintrested to read it and compare for you). Couple things to look for: Vacation is often stated in Calendar days, so weekends count in it. Vacations are at their schedule, not yours. We had an option for Y fare tickets to home, or cash in lieu (most of my guys were taking cash and going to the PI), come to find out the "option" was their option and refused further cash in lieu after the first year. Return fare was predicated on completion of your contract, don't stay 365 days and you'll be paying your own way home (last minute price as we would boot you from the villa....no place to stay unless you got a hotel until you left). Sign a new one year contract and leave, same thing applies, not just the first year. There was a bonus (Service award) equal to one months pay for years 1 to 5, then 60 days pay for years 6 and beyond (think of it as a lump sum pension). I had guys in country for 17 years, but they never saw 60 days. Each contract renewal restarted the clock, so you would never get the higher amount. It was also extreme employment at will. RSAF didn't like you, you're going home, no questions. They booted one guy because he argued with a captain, another because "He looked too young to have the experience listed in his resume and training certs", another was present (ie in the hangar) when they locals pushed a wing into the hangar door (no wing walkers) of course they blamed my guy who was in the office and nowhere near the bird, and of course the idiot that got an RSAF captain drunk on compound and sent him back to his house. No recourse to the terms as you agree to be bound by local law for employment. Want to Sue, you'll be seeing a judge in that country, guess how far you'll get? In the end it was bare bones pay, no raises for up to 3 years, shared villa if single (many programs only allow single or unaccompanied tours), bus to work or shared vehicle, health care in country and if offered, limited coverage for family at home, no shipping, storage or other means for your US household goods (villas are furnished). Many of my guys "converted" as well so they would get the better treatment. Interesting times over there. I had a great time running those programs, really learned a lot (like how to start a subsidiary company in Saudi Arabia), but I didn't have to put up with the crap my employees had to. I would always do it again, but from my side of the fence as before. 60 days a year in country for "town hall" meetings with my folks was enough for me. __________________ B-25 Waist Gunner Last edited by jskibo; October 16th, 2009 at 16:14.

October 20th, 2009, 08:45	#14
xfearlessx Newbie Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: united states Posts: 4	Re: Looking for Job Middle East Still looking info/connection in finding a position in the sand

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