International jobs for low timers?

[Patrick]

I know there are companies like Emirates for those of us who have the appropriate mins and are typed, but what options are there for people with less than ATP/ 135 mins who are not typed? I know you hear of guys coming to the US to do their flight training and then taking right seat jobs in India and China in Airbus and 737 aircraft, but what opportunities exist for US citizens?

Further, for those options that do exist, what is the pay and QOL like?

[frequentflya]

Originally Posted by PatrickCPS

I know there are companies like Emirates for those of us who have the appropriate mins and are typed, but what options are there for people with less than ATP/ 135 mins who are not typed? I know you hear of guys coming to the US to do their flight training and then taking right seat jobs in India and China in Airbus and 737 aircraft, but what opportunities exist for US citizens?

Further, for those options that do exist, what is the pay and QOL like?

My brother just got a long-term freight job in South Africa. But that is flying a Cessna Caravan. Unless you have 1000 hours and ATPL you will have trouble getting in with airlines like Emirates. If you want to fly international with low time I would look for freight and cfi jobs.

[Patrick]

Well aware that most of us don't qualify for Emirates and the like, however, as I mentioned previously, there are guys who come to the US for training from certain countries, go back to their country, and start flying 737s from the right seat at 300 hours.

This post was started out of curiosity as to are any of those jobs open to US citizens. Mostly all you hear about are the overseas jobs looking for experienced and typed captains, but obviously they have to be sourcing FOs somewhere.

[fly8slep]

There are airlines in Europe that hire low timers but you need to have JAR licensing.

[SpiraMirabilis]

And more importantly a legal right to work in Europe which is extremely difficult to attain. Europeans are much more xenophobic than the US with regards to immigration.

[Capt.Spock]

As for foreigners what I have understood Asian companies usually want you to be experienced FO or Captain on type.

The same would apply very much to companies in the Middle East. They rather employ their own nationals.

In Africa you can get away with an easy conversion (in Botswana even that is not required) and well... just don't tell in the customs that you are there to work. However again being unrated with no time on type they might not be very keen on giving you a right seat on a commuter aircraft.

In Europe you need to have a JAA license. I can't see why anyone from the US would have too much trouble getting a working permit to an EU state. However there is A LOT of competition for the available pilot positions. Again if you are a foreigner with no time on type, no ties to the country I think it might be bit hard explaining to the company why they should train you to fly their aircraft. In Europe to fly as a FO you need to be JAA type rated.

I just finished reading another forum where a European low timer was crying out for help. He had build his time to 500h TT flying for free, then he had got a 40 000$ type rating on an ATR-42/72 just to find out that he couldn’t find anyone to employ him. So it's not always very easy.

I'm not sure if all of my information is 100% accurate but I hope it gives some kind of picture of the international job market.

Good luck!

[granlistillo]

Originally Posted by SpiraMirabilis

And more importantly a legal right to work in Europe which is extremely difficult to attain. Europeans are much more xenophobic than the US with regards to immigration.

Sorry but this is just not correct. JAA issues aside...
Unless you are married to a US citizen or have a path to a green card, it is virtually impossible for an EU pilot to get a working visa to fly for the US airlines post 9-11.
Europe is difficult, but if you have a type rating and experience it is possible, difficult but not impossible. Depends on the country.

[granlistillo]

Originally Posted by Capt.Spock

In Europe you need to have a JAA license.


I can't see why anyone from the US would have too much trouble getting a working permit to an EU state.

Unless you can get a gig with n registered planes. Some circumstances can see you get a temporary contract job with a national caa validation vice a full conversion.

Unless you are married to an EU national, getting a work permit can be difficult and some national CAAs rules will not allow a non EU citizen to be PIC on their registered aircraft.

[Patrick]

I fully understand the JAA situation. This post was more aimed at Asia, Middle Eastern, and Indian operators. I see posts all the time for experienced, typed captains wanted, but never for non-typed SICs. Just figured I'd start a discussion around that.

[rjmore]

A lot of the companies that send their own over here to train are doing so for their cadet programs. The obvious problem with this is that when they need Captains, these guys may not have the experience to take on that role. When that happens they hire experienced foreigners to be Captains. All in all they want to provide opportunities for locals but also recognize that they may need more experience in the left seat.

As for SIC opportunities, they are pretty rare. Even our SOs mostly have 3,000-4,000 hours of flight time.