Great Lakes

[Douglas]

My point was mshunter wasn't out of line, he made a simple helpful post, the OP understands now, threat over.

[mshunter]

Originally Posted by Douglas

My point was mshunter wasn't out of line, he made a simple helpful post, the OP understands now, threat over.

LOL!

[DHC6]

Originally Posted by mshunter

LOL!

So how about them Chargers? Haha

I'll just rename the thread to... "Discussion on how to post in the 'Jobs Available' section."

[SJM]

Originally Posted by aviatortolle

He got paid about $11-12k a year after taxes working the line.

And they "prefer" a 4 year degree.....

[FriendlySkies]

It took Great Lakes a long time to give me a call and I had two friends walk in my resume to the chief. I guess it took Casey about 3 weeks to finally give me a call, but by then I had taken the Alpine job. They aren't hiring many people at the moment, only interviewing about 3-4 every month. I have 135 time, turbine time, and 1500TT, but I think it's the inside guys that will get you the job. Hope this answers some questions.

Ryan

[juskl]

I do not work for them and cannot due to the lack of money thing. However, I can tell you what I have been told by three guys I taught with at my flight school. First off the training is very intense. 6 weeks of hell is how it was put to me. That on top of no pay, makes it very tough. They cover your "two to a room" at the hotel you stay at during training, but that is it... Pass rate during training was not good at all. All of my friends made it, but they all said that it seemed as though they were trying to cull the heard as much as possible..... Was advised that they needed more pilots and were trying to work on helping more applicants get through...

The flying is all hands on and my friends all enjoy it quite a bit. They all commute and that has been tough as none of them live in Denver. However, they all said that if they did, life would be alot easier. They have all liked the crews they have flown with and generally like their jobs.... Management.... well no place is perfect and from what it sounds like management is management the world over....

They like the 1900's. It sounds as though they are going to be expanding and are picking up alot of routes. They started into California a little bit back. But the base is still Denver. The pay as an FO sucks..... But after 6 months flying, one of my buddies is generally 4 on and 3 off and does not need to hold a crash pad, when he upgrades, of course that will change...

The upgrade test, is supposed to be incredibly difficult. They don't offer captain to anyone. You have to test to upgrade. In the last test (and they need captains), few passed the testing to get into the captain training program. From what I gather the only way, you can get the info needed to pass the test, is to have your captain teach you what it is that they are doing.... the 1900 was built as a one pilot ship, so most of what you need to know is on the Captains side of the cockpit.

Pay for captain is much better then FO, obviously and can happen quicker then most airlines, but then again the testing to upgrade is supposed to be rediculously tough.

No autopilots in the 1900 and flying to alot of out of the way locations on the government contracted routes...... But again my friends love it. They hate the lack of pay and sometimes being on the road sucks, but they adapted.

Two of my three friends are married to gals that make a good living, so this is how all was made possible for them. The other one, was just financially able to make it happen.

They all had over 1200TT, but low multi times, at the time. The last was hired in the fall. They all had internal recommendations (helped majorly). Currently they are looking for pilots (as of a week ago), but don't know when they are putting on a class. The apps they are getting are from alot of higher times people whom are looking to make things work and get the PIC in the long run.

Again, I do not work there, I am just passing on info that I get from them, when we meet for the cheapest happy hour beer we can find.... good luck to all....

[BrewMaster]

Originally Posted by awd

What kind of detail did they ask for? I've heard that before and have wondered what I may be overlooking in the charts.

Also, someone earlier asked what kind of hours they are hiring at; I would like to know that one as well.

Thanks

I heard if it's in ink, it's fair game....

[dcramer16]

I talked to Judy today. I've had my app in for about 4 months now and call everytime I see a new job posting. She said the Chief Pilots office is so bombarded with apps that it's taking them a long time to go through them, and just to hang tight. That's what Christine said last time I talked to her a month ago...

[BrewMaster]

Originally Posted by dcramer16

I talked to Judy today. I've had my app in for about 4 months now and call everytime I see a new job posting. She said the Chief Pilots office is so bombarded with apps that it's taking them a long time to go through them, and just to hang tight. That's what Christine said last time I talked to her a month ago...

Denial is a stinky cologne. J/k .

I know some CA's/ex-CA's and they say the same thing. Hang in there.

[Matt777]

I think that all pilots should boycott Lakes for not paying you for training and for paying only $16/hour by not applying. If people stood on principle and literally not one single pilot applied until they started paying you for your time and effort during training (which is hell) I think that would be a very good thing.

Being a pilot is cool, but I don't want to feel like an owned (contract) slave or like I'm being taken advantage of.

Back in 2007 two of my co-workers went to lakes with 400 hours total.
I didn't go because they don't pay you through training and I didn't want to commute- or be on foodstamps and welfare while having a job.

I guess I just don't get it.

Nobody get mad, but can you explain it to me so I understand why getting hired is desirable?

I just don't get it.
It occurs to me that this might make more sense to me if I lived in DEN so I didn't have to commute and could live in my parents house. Is that the situation of the guys who are wishing that GL would hire them?


Do you know that their website says they offer competitive pay???!!!!!!!
I emailed to ask what this competitive pay was....
$16!

How long does it take to upgrade anyway?

[BrewMaster]

Originally Posted by Matt777

Back in 2007 two of my co-workers went to lakes with 400 hours total.

I think you answered your own question....

If you don't want to hook up with annoying drunk chick, someone right behind you will....

[BillErvin]

Matt777

What your saying is what many others say, its been tossed back and forth many times on this and other forums, and in a perfect world we all would make a competitive wage. (I believe that's been tried somewhere else)

But in reality, there are those that need or want the job bad enough to make the personal sacrifice, take the low pay and do with what they have.

Its also a reality that your friends will probably have those total hours and turbine PIC time long before you.

Your choice is your reality


I won't say whether its right or wrong, it is... just the way it is

[Matt777]

Originally Posted by BillErvin

Matt777

What your saying is what many others say, its been tossed back and forth many times on this and other forums, and in a perfect world we all would make a competitive wage. (I believe that's been tried somewhere else)

But in reality, there are those that need or want the job bad enough to make the personal sacrifice, take the low pay and do with what they have.

Its also a reality that your friends will probably have those total hours and turbine PIC time long before you.

Your choice is your reality

I won't say whether its right or wrong, it is... just the way it is

Yeah you're exactly right.
I guess it just comes down to how willing you are to sacrifice your quality of life and happiness and pay in order to advance at the quickest pace toward the goal of "Major Airline pilot" (that you may or may not have crowned god/priority of your life), no matter the cost to self.

That is not an insult to anybody!!! I'm just personally not willing to make my life miserable to accelerate the pace to this "utopia" we imagine major airline flying to be.
But no job is utopia- that's why they are called jobs. Routine becomes, well, routine.
But what is better is the schedule and the pay at the majors, of course.

So, if we were to think like a mathematician the result is this: choosing to impoverish yourself for a period of years in order to advance more quickly to that job that pays well.

Does that add up?
For some it does and for others it doesn't, like you said.

I'm not knocking anyone- it just irritates me that Great Lakes can get away with this unpaid training and $16/hr.

It's the principle of the thing!

[rickurukus]

Originally Posted by fly4you

Had a friend from flight school get through training and on his IOE didn't pass because he said that the examiner didn't like the way he was writing down clearences. Said that he should have had them memorized, and also didn't like some of his radio calls. I don't know if thats why he actually didn't finish or not, but if it was it seems pretty dumb to me.

im sure that was just his side of the story.. had to be different in the actual cockpit they dont just not pass people for stuff like that he must have done something to deserve it

[dcramer16]

Originally Posted by Matt777

Yeah you're exactly right.
I guess it just comes down to how willing you are to sacrifice your quality of life and happiness and pay in order to advance at the quickest pace toward the goal of "Major Airline pilot" (that you may or may not have crowned god/priority of your life), no matter the cost to self.

That is not an insult to anybody!!! I'm just personally not willing to make my life miserable to accelerate the pace to this "utopia" we imagine major airline flying to be.
But no job is utopia- that's why they are called jobs. Routine becomes, well, routine.
But what is better is the schedule and the pay at the majors, of course.

So, if we were to think like a mathematician the result is this: choosing to impoverish yourself for a period of years in order to advance more quickly to that job that pays well.

Does that add up?
For some it does and for others it doesn't, like you said.

I'm not knocking anyone- it just irritates me that Great Lakes can get away with this unpaid training and $16/hr.

It's the principle of the thing!

Hey Matt, I know where you're coming from. 6 months ago I was walking around with my nose in the air, and I didn't think I would ever touch Great Lakes. The nerves of those jerks, not paying during training, $16/hr. I don't think so!!! Hell, I was making great in the high $40's as a cargo Captain. I figured anyone that went there had to be crazy.

Now, 4 months into my Furlough, I've called them several times hoping I can get an interview. Now my story has changed. I would love to have the opportunity to work for those wonderful guys over at Great Lakes! Todays crappy regional very well could turn out to be tomorrows golden opportunity.

Another example. GoJet. Who would want to work for them, and have all the other regional pilots spit on you as you walk through the terminal. I need a job, I have an app in with them, I'll carry a hanky if I have to. It is easy to knock a company when you have a job. I did the same thing. But wait till you're sitting around for 4 months, and you're wife is about to leave you, and you might change your story too.

[Matt777]

Originally Posted by dcramer16

Hey Matt, I know where you're coming from. 6 months ago I was walking around with my nose in the air, and I didn't think I would ever touch Great Lakes. The nerves of those jerks, not paying during training, $16/hr. I don't think so!!! Hell, I was making great in the high $40's as a cargo Captain. I figured anyone that went there had to be crazy.

Now, 4 months into my Furlough, I've called them several times hoping I can get an interview. Now my story has changed. I would love to have the opportunity to work for those wonderful guys over at Great Lakes! Todays crappy regional very well could turn out to be tomorrows golden opportunity.

Another example. GoJet. Who would want to work for them, and have all the other regional pilots spit on you as you walk through the terminal. I need a job, I have an app in with them, I'll carry a hanky if I have to. It is easy to knock a company when you have a job. I did the same thing. But wait till you're sitting around for 4 months, and you're wife is about to leave you, and you might change your story too.

Yeah I definitely understand that- and I hope I was clear that I wasn't ripping on anyone... I think for me it is not JUST the principle of it (not being paid in training & the $16), but I just don't want to commute and be as miserable as my former coworker was who was commuting from Seattle and did lose his highschool-long GF because he was never home.
So the commuting is a HUGE thing to me, when I pair it with teh $16/hour.

The real question is how quickly do you upgrade to captain pay? Then that $16 is really a temporary non-issue if it only takes 6 months... and considering the Turbine PIC it quickly leads you to... not so bad.

If I was in your position you describe I think I would move to Denver to eliminate what is the worst part to me - commuting- and suck it up and get on the way to the PIC turbine even though it paid nothing on the way there.

I think the main reason I posted is because you can make more than double great lakes pay with a full-time salaried CFI position.
If you get less than $10,000 a year on unemployment then the sacrifice would make sense to me, but for $13,000.... here I go again about the principle of the thing again!

I was truly, genuinely, and sincerly curious, in a non-judgemental way, why people were hoping to get hired there- and you answered my question totally and completely, so thank you for responding!

And, just so you know, I can't hold my nose high! I still live in my parent's house, I've been instructing for 2.5 years at a great place that DID offer a few $30,000 salaried positions, which the former manager was able to create SPECIFICALLY for me 6 months after I told him I was gonna have to go to Lakes in order to pay my student loan payment... I didn't take a position because I had an interview date for Horizon and I didn't want to take it and then quit a couple weeks later (this was April of last year a couple months before Alaska Air Group reported a $32 million loss and scheduled 69 furloughs for November... so it didn't actually matter that, even though I was one of only two to get to the sim, I blew it because I was so busy instructing that I didn't have time to hit the sim- and also couldn't fall asleep in the hotel bed the night before the interview. Now those salaried CFI positions are gone (try being an hourly CFI in the winter in Seattle). (How was that for a run-on sentence?)
And my loan payment was due on the 15th.
So I can't hold my head to darn high!!!

Even more of a bummer was that the Horizon people thought I was such a good fit for Horizon they told me that, even though their rules say you can't normally reapply for 6 months, they wanted me to reapply in 3 and to not apply to anywhere else (they are VERY nice people there too)!
As I was anxiously counting down those 3 months... with 3 weeks left to go... the $32 million first quarter losses were announced and then the furloughing for November was announced. So I would have been furloughed anyway- like my four former co-workers (two of which are co-workers again).

So I think that should thoroughly establish that I don't think I'm superior to anything, except financially slightly superior to a homeless person- but not by much in the winter!

I realize I had not read about or really been aware of the extent of the furloughs nationwide because I was busy thinking about how Alaska Air Group had the most furloughs. It sounds like everyone else caught up while I haven't been paying attention or reading this site!

Where did you get furloughed from (if you want to answer)?

I do hope you get the call.

So now I'm gonna go eat some of my mom's food and then play my guitar while I wait for my international student (thank GOD for him!) to get his commercial written done!

Good luck and thanks for answering so politely!!

[dcramer16]

Originally Posted by Matt777

And, just so you know, I can't hold my nose high! I still live in my parent's house, So I can't hold my head to darn high!!!

Me too, darn it!

Originally Posted by Matt777

So now I'm gonna go eat some of my mom's food

My mommy made me Chicken Fajitas for lunch today. Thank God for parents!

Originally Posted by Matt777

Good luck and thanks for answering so politely!!

Take it easy Matt, good luck!

[DHC6]

Originally Posted by dcramer16

I talked to Judy today. I've had my app in for about 4 months now and call everytime I see a new job posting. She said the Chief Pilots office is so bombarded with apps that it's taking them a long time to go through them, and just to hang tight. That's what Christine said last time I talked to her a month ago...

It just doesn't make sense... Another posting today on willflyforfood for FO positions. If they are so weighed down with apps why are they still posting for more people? I don't know of your times or experience but it sounds to me like thats maybe what they tell people when they don't want to deal with them. It amazes me that so many people are beating down the door to work for less than a job at Mcdonalds, but I guess I am too.

[Bwatz]

It could be that they subscribe to those job sites and it will post the job automatically after a certain amount of days.

[dcramer16]

Originally Posted by DHC6

I don't know of your times or experience

2500TT, 900ME, Part 135 Captain.

[DHC6]

Originally Posted by dcramer16

2500TT, 900ME, Part 135 Captain.

Yea, seems like they would be beating down your door with your experience... Who knows

[dcramer16]

Originally Posted by DHC6

Yea, seems like they would be beating down your door with your experience... Who knows

[aviatorchris]

Originally Posted by aviatortolle

I had a friend who worked for them for about 9 months....they offered him left seat several times and then never followed through. He got paid about $11-12k a year after taxes working the line. This was about 2 years ago.

I interviewed with them in April of 06 but did not get hired because my Jepp knowledge was not good enough at the time. If you are going to interview with them I suggest you study up on every little detail on Jepp plates....and I mean every little detail.

funny how they care so much when they dont even give their FO's plates.

[PGT]

I love flying but not that much

[Matt777]

Originally Posted by dcramer16

2500TT, 900ME, Part 135 Captain.

I wonder if they avoid guys with your experience because they think you are not willing to put up with the Great Lakes lifestyle and pay? Maybe they don't want to train you and then have you leave because you cant stand it?

Add these words to your resume: " I'm as hungry for hours and your low pay as a CFI " and see if they respond! That is NOT an insult to you in any way!!!
I honestly wonder if that is how they think about expereinced guys who have worked at good airlines for a more fair wage.