ATC pay

Flyr3465 · August 7th, 2003, 12:10

Hi could anyone tell me what a Air traffic Controller Usually makes starting out???

THanks
Chris

EatSleepFly · August 7th, 2003, 12:41

More than a pilot.

JDMcFly · August 7th, 2003, 13:43

Isn't it like 97k after you're done with training?

I really don't remember.

shooter13 · August 7th, 2003, 15:01

I think it depends on where you work and for how long... Check the FAA's website

fly22 · August 7th, 2003, 15:06

My neighbor is one and he does really well. It takes just as long to get senority though. He has been doing it for a long time and still has to work a ton of nights.

mikek123 · August 7th, 2003, 15:21

The starting pay while at the academy is about $34,000. It increases about 10k when you walk in the door at the facility. Once you get checked out in your position it increases even further. A controller at a level 12 center (the busiest) can make about $140,000 base pay a year. They then get extra pay for working nights, Sundays, holidays. Plus if they live in an expensive area of the country (Chicago, NY, etc) they get extra locality pay.

Unfortunately there are very few ways to get on with the FAA as a control. You either have to be a former military controller, go to a CTI school and get a degree, or go to the MARK school.

Flyr3465 · August 7th, 2003, 15:39

GEEZ Aviation is a hard business to get into!

Wm226 · August 7th, 2003, 18:01

The following is information copied from the U.S. Department of Labor Bureau of Labor Statistics' website:

[ QUOTE ]
Median annual earnings of air traffic controllers in 2000 were $82,520. The middle 50 percent earned between $62,250 and $101,570. The lowest 10 percent earned less than $44,760, and the highest 10 percent earned more than $111,150.

The average annual salary, excluding overtime earnings, for air traffic controllers in the Federal Government—which employs 89 percent of the total—in nonsupervisory, supervisory, and managerial positions was $53,313 in 2001. Both the worker's job responsibilities and the complexity of the particular facility determine a controller's pay. For example, controllers who work at the FAA's busiest air traffic control facilities earn higher pay.

Depending on length of service, air traffic controllers receive 13 to 26 days of paid vacation and 13 days of paid sick leave each year, life insurance, and health benefits. In addition, controllers can retire at an earlier age and with fewer years of service than other Federal employees. Air traffic controllers are eligible to retire at age 50 with 20 years of service as an active air traffic controller or after 25 years of active service at any age. There is a mandatory retirement age of 56 for controllers who manage air traffic.

[/ QUOTE ]

You can find information on basically any job by going to their website's Occupation Search Engine .

http://stats.bls.gov/search/ooh.asp?ct=OOH

sixpack · August 9th, 2003, 17:28

I recall reading somewhere that you must be no more then 30 years old to get hired/trained as a controller.

aloft · August 13th, 2003, 16:34

[ QUOTE ]
Median annual earnings of air traffic controllers in 2000 were $82,520. The middle 50 percent earned between $62,250 and $101,570. The lowest 10 percent earned less than $44,760, and the highest 10 percent earned more than $111,150.

The average annual salary, excluding overtime earnings, for air traffic controllers in the Federal Government—which employs 89 percent of the total—in nonsupervisory, supervisory, and managerial positions was $53,313 in 2001. Both the worker's job responsibilities and the complexity of the particular facility determine a controller's pay. For example, controllers who work at the FAA's busiest air traffic control facilities earn higher pay.

[/ QUOTE ]
Which is precisely why America CEO Dubya wants to contract all those jobs out--they're all simply paid too much, and it's an industry ripe for some low-ball bidding (by a new Halliburton subsidiary, perhaps?

). After all, if an airline pilot shouldn't make more than $100k/yr, a controller sure as hell shouldn't, right?

BoeingDrew · August 15th, 2003, 13:48

Are the phsical requirements with an ATC (i.e. 20/20 vison)

Doug Taylor · August 15th, 2003, 15:46

If we privatise the ATC system, lord help us all.

Because they'd just simply be profit-motivated and probably have larger sectors with fewer controllers. The ATC system is so clogged up, we've got one controller working multiple sectors and it's to the point that it's so hard to get in a word edgewise, that I just stay on course, go to the new frequency and wait until he controller gives me an instruction.

Controllers deserve to make phat bank, those guys work exceptionally hard with a communications system that's circa-Marconi.

Mr_Creepy · August 15th, 2003, 16:47

I'm actually in favor of privatization. There are several non-federal control towers here in FL and they do a pretty good job. For one thing they listen to feedback!

The ATC system is big and cumbersome. If it were motivated by customer service there might be some improvements.

Of course the transition might be messy

pljenkins · August 16th, 2003, 06:52

[ QUOTE ]
After all, if an airline pilot shouldn't make more than $100k/yr, a controller sure as hell shouldn't, right?

[/ QUOTE ]

Wanna have a laugh? Ask your dispatcher what he makes! Wanna laugh harder? Ask the crew desk what they make (if you can get a hold of them). Talk about thankless jobs for thankless pay!

Of course, my only point of reference is in the Regional world. Mainline dispatchers certainly have it better (if they can remain employed). We lowly Regional dispatchers don't even get a reach around.

Maybe I should start a business manufacturing Ramen noodles! I'd make a mint!

Paul.

Cheechako · August 16th, 2003, 09:11

[ QUOTE ]
My neighbor is one and he does really well. It takes just as long to get senority though. He has been doing it for a long time and still has to work a ton of nights.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was up visiting the tower at Portland, Oregon and asked who the lucky ones were that worked the night shifts. The controller there said they all rotated around the clock. So EVERYONE gets a chance to work the graveyard. That may just be how that particular facility is managed. Others, I'm not sure if they do the same thing.

EatSleepFly · August 16th, 2003, 09:56

I agree...I've been to a few airports with NFCT's, and you don't really notice much of a difference. Besides, they have the same training as FAA controllers.

The reason I would be against privatization of the system has nothing to do with that. The thing that scares me is user fees. Gotta pay those controllers somehow, and if they are private, the taxpayers probably won't be paying their salaries. Unless its under a govt. contract, but that would seemingly defeat the whole purpose of privatization in the first place.

pavelump · August 16th, 2003, 10:30

Cessna 1234K, contact Daytona Approach on 123.45 and squawk the last four digits of your credit card. Good day.

n2o2diver · August 16th, 2003, 19:24

I'm sorry sir that card did not go through.

Please enter the hold and try another card.

Doug Taylor · August 17th, 2003, 13:46

Heck, we'd probably have even more ATC-related delays. Because insteading of adding more controllers in a sector to decrease frequency congestion, you're going to have fewer controllers doing more work in order to reap a bigger profit.

Like the first day of Business 101. The professor asks, "What does Apple Computer do?"

Student: "Make computers"

Prof: "Wrong, Apple Computers makes a profit, everything else is secondary".

I dunno, perhaps I'm just negative, but I can't see privatisation solving any of ATC's current problems. Just lower pay, heavier workload and more frequency congestion.

MikeD · August 17th, 2003, 13:50

[ QUOTE ]
I dunno, perhaps I'm just negative, but I can't see privatisation solving any of ATC's current problems. Just lower pay, heavier workload and more frequency congestion.

[/ QUOTE ]

Kinda of like private fire departments. Doh!!

Doug Taylor · August 17th, 2003, 13:54

I really don't think we want "Rural/Metro" to get into the ATC business!

Nothing like having your firefighters that you depend on working for substandard wages, no retirement and very few health benefits.

But I might be wrong!

shooter13 · August 17th, 2003, 23:16

The point of privatization would be to allow that profit motive to create more efficient ways of doing business or develop different equipment faster than government will do. If they tried to privatize the system we have now I imagine it would be worse than it is. I don't see it happening beacause in order to allow for innovation, the government would have to not regulate the crap out of it and I can't see that happening to something as important as ATC.

Doug Taylor · August 17th, 2003, 23:26

[ QUOTE ]
The point of privatization would be to allow that profit motive to create more efficient ways of doing business or develop different equipment faster than government will do.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok, sounds great.

How?

A good method would be a data up/downlink, but it's going to cost mega-bank, nothing that a profit-motivated airline nor ATC would want to bear.

shooter13 · August 18th, 2003, 06:54

Well, like I said, I don't see it happening.

Mr_Creepy · August 18th, 2003, 07:43

[ QUOTE ]
A good method would be a data up/downlink, but it's going to cost mega-bank, nothing that a profit-motivated airline nor ATC would want to bear.

[/ QUOTE ]

You know there are several companies working on ATC data uplink/downlink systems right now. Of course they are targetting corporate aircraft because they are willing to spend the money on fancy systems now, rather than later like airlines do.

It won't be long before you see a weather uplink and automated clearances on airlines. I was working on a project like that at Lockheed-Martin just before I left in 1989.

August 7th, 2003, 12:10	#1
Flyr3465 Newbie Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 15	ATC pay Hi could anyone tell me what a Air traffic Controller Usually makes starting out??? THanks Chris

August 7th, 2003, 12:41	#2
EatSleepFly Old Skool Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: ?? Posts: 4,637	Re: ATC pay More than a pilot.

August 7th, 2003, 13:43	#3
JDMcFly Old Skool Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: New York Posts: 1,739	Re: ATC pay Isn't it like 97k after you're done with training? I really don't remember.

August 7th, 2003, 15:01	#4
shooter13 Old Skool Join Date: May 2002 Location: South Carolina Posts: 1,952	Re: ATC pay I think it depends on where you work and for how long... Check the FAA's website

August 7th, 2003, 15:06	#5
fly22 Old Skool Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: UT, SLC Posts: 2,411	Re: ATC pay My neighbor is one and he does really well. It takes just as long to get senority though. He has been doing it for a long time and still has to work a ton of nights.

August 7th, 2003, 15:21	#6
mikek123 Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Gainesville, FL Posts: 112	Re: ATC pay The starting pay while at the academy is about $34,000. It increases about 10k when you walk in the door at the facility. Once you get checked out in your position it increases even further. A controller at a level 12 center (the busiest) can make about $140,000 base pay a year. They then get extra pay for working nights, Sundays, holidays. Plus if they live in an expensive area of the country (Chicago, NY, etc) they get extra locality pay. Unfortunately there are very few ways to get on with the FAA as a control. You either have to be a former military controller, go to a CTI school and get a degree, or go to the MARK school.

August 7th, 2003, 15:39	#7
Flyr3465 Newbie Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 15	Re: ATC pay GEEZ Aviation is a hard business to get into!

August 7th, 2003, 18:01	#8
Wm226 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: U.S. Posts: 448	Re: ATC pay The following is information copied from the U.S. Department of Labor Bureau of Labor Statistics' website: [ QUOTE ] Median annual earnings of air traffic controllers in 2000 were $82,520. The middle 50 percent earned between $62,250 and $101,570. The lowest 10 percent earned less than $44,760, and the highest 10 percent earned more than $111,150. The average annual salary, excluding overtime earnings, for air traffic controllers in the Federal Government—which employs 89 percent of the total—in nonsupervisory, supervisory, and managerial positions was $53,313 in 2001. Both the worker's job responsibilities and the complexity of the particular facility determine a controller's pay. For example, controllers who work at the FAA's busiest air traffic control facilities earn higher pay. Depending on length of service, air traffic controllers receive 13 to 26 days of paid vacation and 13 days of paid sick leave each year, life insurance, and health benefits. In addition, controllers can retire at an earlier age and with fewer years of service than other Federal employees. Air traffic controllers are eligible to retire at age 50 with 20 years of service as an active air traffic controller or after 25 years of active service at any age. There is a mandatory retirement age of 56 for controllers who manage air traffic. [/ QUOTE ] You can find information on basically any job by going to their website's Occupation Search Engine . http://stats.bls.gov/search/ooh.asp?ct=OOH

August 9th, 2003, 17:28	#9
sixpack Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 277	Re: ATC pay I recall reading somewhere that you must be no more then 30 years old to get hired/trained as a controller.

August 13th, 2003, 16:34	#10
aloft Old Skool Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: SL,UT Posts: 8,167	Re: ATC pay [ QUOTE ] Median annual earnings of air traffic controllers in 2000 were $82,520. The middle 50 percent earned between $62,250 and $101,570. The lowest 10 percent earned less than $44,760, and the highest 10 percent earned more than $111,150. The average annual salary, excluding overtime earnings, for air traffic controllers in the Federal Government—which employs 89 percent of the total—in nonsupervisory, supervisory, and managerial positions was $53,313 in 2001. Both the worker's job responsibilities and the complexity of the particular facility determine a controller's pay. For example, controllers who work at the FAA's busiest air traffic control facilities earn higher pay. [/ QUOTE ] Which is precisely why America CEO Dubya wants to contract all those jobs out--they're all simply paid too much, and it's an industry ripe for some low-ball bidding (by a new Halliburton subsidiary, perhaps? ). After all, if an airline pilot shouldn't make more than $100k/yr, a controller sure as hell shouldn't, right?

August 15th, 2003, 13:48	#11
BoeingDrew Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: KSAN Posts: 146	Re: ATC pay Are the phsical requirements with an ATC (i.e. 20/20 vison)

August 15th, 2003, 15:46	#12
Doug Taylor Agent Smith Join Date: Dec 1969 Location: KSDL Posts: 50,368 Blog Entries: 1	Re: ATC pay If we privatise the ATC system, lord help us all. Because they'd just simply be profit-motivated and probably have larger sectors with fewer controllers. The ATC system is so clogged up, we've got one controller working multiple sectors and it's to the point that it's so hard to get in a word edgewise, that I just stay on course, go to the new frequency and wait until he controller gives me an instruction. Controllers deserve to make phat bank, those guys work exceptionally hard with a communications system that's circa-Marconi.

August 15th, 2003, 16:47	#13
Mr_Creepy Old Skool Join Date: May 2003 Location: In the O-zone Posts: 5,835	Re: ATC pay I'm actually in favor of privatization. There are several non-federal control towers here in FL and they do a pretty good job. For one thing they listen to feedback! The ATC system is big and cumbersome. If it were motivated by customer service there might be some improvements. Of course the transition might be messy

August 16th, 2003, 06:52	#14
pljenkins Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Appleton, WI. Posts: 132	Re: ATC pay [ QUOTE ] After all, if an airline pilot shouldn't make more than $100k/yr, a controller sure as hell shouldn't, right? [/ QUOTE ] Wanna have a laugh? Ask your dispatcher what he makes! Wanna laugh harder? Ask the crew desk what they make (if you can get a hold of them). Talk about thankless jobs for thankless pay! Of course, my only point of reference is in the Regional world. Mainline dispatchers certainly have it better (if they can remain employed). We lowly Regional dispatchers don't even get a reach around. Maybe I should start a business manufacturing Ramen noodles! I'd make a mint! Paul.

August 16th, 2003, 09:11	#15
Cheechako Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Wasilla, AK Posts: 1,024	Re: ATC pay [ QUOTE ] My neighbor is one and he does really well. It takes just as long to get senority though. He has been doing it for a long time and still has to work a ton of nights. [/ QUOTE ] I was up visiting the tower at Portland, Oregon and asked who the lucky ones were that worked the night shifts. The controller there said they all rotated around the clock. So EVERYONE gets a chance to work the graveyard. That may just be how that particular facility is managed. Others, I'm not sure if they do the same thing.

August 16th, 2003, 09:56	#16
EatSleepFly Old Skool Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: ?? Posts: 4,637	Re: ATC pay I agree...I've been to a few airports with NFCT's, and you don't really notice much of a difference. Besides, they have the same training as FAA controllers. The reason I would be against privatization of the system has nothing to do with that. The thing that scares me is user fees. Gotta pay those controllers somehow, and if they are private, the taxpayers probably won't be paying their salaries. Unless its under a govt. contract, but that would seemingly defeat the whole purpose of privatization in the first place.

August 16th, 2003, 10:30	#17
pavelump Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Chicago Posts: 797	Re: ATC pay Cessna 1234K, contact Daytona Approach on 123.45 and squawk the last four digits of your credit card. Good day.

August 16th, 2003, 19:24	#18
n2o2diver Junior Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Livin the Dream Posts: 220	Re: ATC pay I'm sorry sir that card did not go through. Please enter the hold and try another card.

August 17th, 2003, 13:46	#19
Doug Taylor Agent Smith Join Date: Dec 1969 Location: KSDL Posts: 50,368 Blog Entries: 1	Re: ATC pay Heck, we'd probably have even more ATC-related delays. Because insteading of adding more controllers in a sector to decrease frequency congestion, you're going to have fewer controllers doing more work in order to reap a bigger profit. Like the first day of Business 101. The professor asks, "What does Apple Computer do?" Student: "Make computers" Prof: "Wrong, Apple Computers makes a profit, everything else is secondary". I dunno, perhaps I'm just negative, but I can't see privatisation solving any of ATC's current problems. Just lower pay, heavier workload and more frequency congestion.

August 17th, 2003, 13:50	#20
MikeD Administrator Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Pinal Airpark, AZ (KMZJ) Posts: 12,017	Re: ATC pay [ QUOTE ] I dunno, perhaps I'm just negative, but I can't see privatisation solving any of ATC's current problems. Just lower pay, heavier workload and more frequency congestion. [/ QUOTE ] Kinda of like private fire departments. Doh!!

August 17th, 2003, 13:54	#21
Doug Taylor Agent Smith Join Date: Dec 1969 Location: KSDL Posts: 50,368 Blog Entries: 1	Re: ATC pay I really don't think we want "Rural/Metro" to get into the ATC business! Nothing like having your firefighters that you depend on working for substandard wages, no retirement and very few health benefits. But I might be wrong!

August 17th, 2003, 23:16	#22
shooter13 Old Skool Join Date: May 2002 Location: South Carolina Posts: 1,952	Re: ATC pay The point of privatization would be to allow that profit motive to create more efficient ways of doing business or develop different equipment faster than government will do. If they tried to privatize the system we have now I imagine it would be worse than it is. I don't see it happening beacause in order to allow for innovation, the government would have to not regulate the crap out of it and I can't see that happening to something as important as ATC.

August 17th, 2003, 23:26	#23
Doug Taylor Agent Smith Join Date: Dec 1969 Location: KSDL Posts: 50,368 Blog Entries: 1	Re: ATC pay [ QUOTE ] The point of privatization would be to allow that profit motive to create more efficient ways of doing business or develop different equipment faster than government will do. [/ QUOTE ] Ok, sounds great. How? A good method would be a data up/downlink, but it's going to cost mega-bank, nothing that a profit-motivated airline nor ATC would want to bear.

August 18th, 2003, 06:54	#24
shooter13 Old Skool Join Date: May 2002 Location: South Carolina Posts: 1,952	Re: ATC pay Well, like I said, I don't see it happening.

August 18th, 2003, 07:43	#25
Mr_Creepy Old Skool Join Date: May 2003 Location: In the O-zone Posts: 5,835	Re: ATC pay [ QUOTE ] A good method would be a data up/downlink, but it's going to cost mega-bank, nothing that a profit-motivated airline nor ATC would want to bear. [/ QUOTE ] You know there are several companies working on ATC data uplink/downlink systems right now. Of course they are targetting corporate aircraft because they are willing to spend the money on fancy systems now, rather than later like airlines do. It won't be long before you see a weather uplink and automated clearances on airlines. I was working on a project like that at Lockheed-Martin just before I left in 1989.

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