Airline Pay - Page 2

shooter13 · August 29th, 2003, 12:58

you may want to duck powerlifter. You are about to get slammed...

flycanuck · August 29th, 2003, 13:31

[ QUOTE ]
Wow, after checking those United wages, it's no wonder they've been having financial difficulties. Call me crazy, but $150,000 per year seems pretty excessive, given the supply of willing pilots out there.

[/ QUOTE ]

Since I do not want to get into a dog fight, I will just force myself to laugh uncontrollably.....

EatSleepFly · August 29th, 2003, 14:22

Let the slamming begin...

[ QUOTE ]
Call me crazy, but $150,000 per year seems pretty excessive, given the supply of willing pilots out there.

[/ QUOTE ]

Jackass.

Mr_Creepy · August 29th, 2003, 14:25

We don't seem to have a shortage of Lawyers, either, yet some of them seem to make 300-400k a year.

Who do you want in the cockpit of your next airliner? A $150,000 captain who's happy? Or a $30,000 pilot with 1500 hrs and the ink still wet on his ATP?

TheWife · August 29th, 2003, 14:42

Is it not true any more that some very senior pilots make 200-300K?? I think I heard those rates once for int'l flying, but maybe it's not like that anymore?

Eagle · August 29th, 2003, 15:40

a listing from avjobs.com very very few pilots make over 200k, a year, I would guess less than 1%.

Pilot Careers..... pay ......education required .....needed training ..... Who hires

Agricultural Pilot $20,000 - $70,000 High school diploma, special training, and license Agricultural operators, large farms

Air Taxi Pilot $9 - $18 / hr College Preferred Fixed base operators, air taxi operators

Air Traffic Reporting Pilot $18,000 - $40,000 College Preferred Radio & TV; traffic reporting companies

Astronaut $42,000 - $80,000 Engineering, physical science, physics, or similar advanced degree NASA

Corporate Pilot $19,400 - $115,000 College Preferred; most require 4 year degree Companies with flight departments

Flight Instructor $12,300 - $40,530 H.S. diploma Flight schools

Helicopter Pilot $29,000 - $57,000 College Preferred; most require 4 year degree Helicopter operators, corporate flight departments

Major / National Airline Pilot $23,000 - $250,000 College Preferred; most require 4 year degree Major and National Airlines

Military Pilot $21,290 - $99,000 College degree U.S. Armed Forces

Regional Airline Pilot $16,500 - $60,000 College Preferred; most require 4 year degree Regional Airlines

Test Pilot $15,000 - $200,000 College Preferred FAA, airlines, aircraft manufacturing plants, government agencies

TheWife · August 29th, 2003, 17:26

Very interesting...thank you for finding that! So I guess my hopes of some day buying a private island in Fiji are gettting diminished. LOL.

Eagle · August 29th, 2003, 17:30

[ QUOTE ]
Very interesting...thank you for finding that! So I guess my hopes of some day buying a private island in Fiji are gettting diminished. LOL.

[/ QUOTE ]

like all things if you work for it it can happen. If you are relying on your husband's pay to meet that goal, then yeah I'd scrap that idea pretty fast.

TheWife · August 29th, 2003, 17:38

Guess I better get a job as a phone psychic.

Actually my only goal is to have enough money to take care of our needs, not our wants, anything above and beyond that, I consider to be major bonus. BTW-what kind of benfits do they usually get aside from the check? Is health insurance paid for or a 401K or anything like that, or is it usually just the money? I have no idea how these things work, how unions work, etc.

Athena · August 29th, 2003, 20:53

Iagree with you about the pay thing. I have been a broke ass bastard for years. I am OK with being broke but I would like to do work i can enjoy. As a side note...I have heard it is difficult to get life insurance as a pilot. Is it true?

TheWife · August 29th, 2003, 21:00

Once you meet minimum hours (500 I believe) life ins. isn't THAT bad. But until then, that's when you are the most dangerous from what I have heard, so it's unaffordable. There are some specific companies that insurance just pilots though and give them group rates, I think they advertise in some of the flying mags.

Athena · August 29th, 2003, 21:08

Thanks alot...I appreciate it.

triplec76 · August 29th, 2003, 23:37

Life insurance is pretty reasonable if you meet whatever guidlines your insurer sets. I pay a little higher premium because I dont have quite enough hours solo (not PIC, but actual solo) time as State Farm would like. I will meet the requirement for them soon, but its a yearly renewal so I will pay the higher premium until the policy is renewed. The increased premium isnt that much, and if you are flying through your certificates/ratings it isnt a big hassle.

kellwolf · August 30th, 2003, 01:14

[ QUOTE ]
Is health insurance paid for or a 401K or anything like that, or is it usually just the money? I have no idea how these things work, how unions work, etc.

[/ QUOTE ]

As a RAMP AGENT, I get pretty decent benefits from the airline. Health insurance is fairly reasonable (med, dental, vision, etc), the 401K rock the house (vested already, and I've only been there a little over a year), and I get profit-sharing. 'Course this is just one airline, it varies at each one depending on union contracts.

I would assume the pilots would AT LEAST get the same benefits deal as the lowly rampers and customer service.

powerlifter · August 30th, 2003, 18:44

[ QUOTE ]
We don't seem to have a shortage of Lawyers, either, yet some of them seem to make 300-400k a year.

Who do you want in the cockpit of your next airliner? A $150,000 captain who's happy? Or a $30,000 pilot with 1500 hrs and the ink still wet on his ATP?

[/ QUOTE ]

Is there a shortage of lawyers? No. Is there a shortage of lawyers who can reasonably demand $300,000 per year? Yes. This is why they're so highly paid. Connections and legal expertise go a long way in law, and can earn/save your clients a great deal of wealth. The bottom line is that those lawyers are worth every cent of that wage. That's why you don't see lawyer unions.

The issue here is whether a pilot with 12 years of seniority at an airline deserves $100,000 more than the pilot with 3 years. In law, that sort of seniority would usually justify the pay difference, since experience and connections are worth so much in that field. But how much is that 9 years of experience flying aircraft worth, especially when you've got experienced, furloughed pilots who would be happy to work at a fraction of the union rate?

Of course, I want the pilot with the most experience flying my plane. But at what price? If you've got two pilots with equal experiece, and one is willing to work at half the other's wage, I'll take the cheap guy.

EatSleepFly · August 30th, 2003, 18:50

[ QUOTE ]
But at what price? If you've got two pilots with equal experiece, and one is willing to work at half the other's wage, I'll take the cheap guy.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good for you. Now go search the forums, and you'll find plenty of debates on this topic. This is a war you will not likely win on this website, so I wouldn't even bother- it'll probably just turn into a flame fest.

flycanuck · August 30th, 2003, 21:21

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
But at what price? If you've got two pilots with equal experiece, and one is willing to work at half the other's wage, I'll take the cheap guy.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good for you. Now go search the forums, and you'll find plenty of debates on this topic. This is a war you will not likely win on this website, so I wouldn't even bother- it'll probably just turn into a flame fest.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think what he said is very debatable. An employer would be stupid not to pick a guy who will work for less with equal skills/experience. What I wouldn't start doing is going around and telling people that airline pilots are overpaid or start ranting about how you will fly for free. Even if it is just a figure of speech.

EatSleepFly · August 30th, 2003, 21:58

[ QUOTE ]
What I wouldn't start doing is going around and telling people that airline pilots are overpaid like some guy did earlier in this thread

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, some guy....like maybe the guy I was talking to...

I'm not going to get into a pissing match over this. I'm just pointing out that you will open Pandora's Box by saying things like that.

aal777 · September 1st, 2003, 01:06

Hello,

I just wanted to offer some links to a couple of articles and one chart about pilot pay for major carriers. Even though these are just a few of the many articles I have read about this subject, most of the articles confirm that pilots working for a major carrier will make six figure incomes. This is also confirmed by many airline pilots whom I have spoken with.

http://archives.seattletimes.nwsourc...uery=pilot+pay

http://www.forbes.com/global/2003/0217/046.html

http://www.jet-jobs.com/press%20rele...linefacts.html

flycanuck · September 1st, 2003, 12:33

Thanks for the links.
Damn! Those U.S air guys took some hefty pay cuts.
I know all the majors are in bad shape but most of the focus is on UAL, AA, and U.S air. What about NW, Delta and Continental?

Doug Taylor · September 2nd, 2003, 02:28

Hellllllll naw! Dougie gots ta get paid!

I worked my ass off too long and put up with way too much bull to get to where I am to earn only enough to cover rent and an occasional trip to IHOP.

This job is hard, rough on the family life (even with being a childless couple) and you're way closer to death on a weekly basis than the general public may care to hear.

Or even some pilots.

I would not do my job for $30,000 per year. Considering that I've seen my wife a grand total of 48 hours in the past 12 days, pshaw! I'd rather work down at Bank of America and have someone to snuggle up to every evening.

Considering I've only slept in my bed 12 nights since July 31st...

Athena · September 2nd, 2003, 14:37

That is precisely why I am gonna carry my own pillow and blankie. (I hate crunch hotel sheets) Bring some home with me if I can't be there.

ready2fly · September 2nd, 2003, 15:26

[ QUOTE ]
crunch hotel sheets

[/ QUOTE ]
Eeeewwww - BLEH!!!

250blue · September 3rd, 2003, 14:04

This always cracks me up. My mother was on a flight when my dad was captain, they lost an engine (767) and had to return to the airport. She said she didn't hear anyone on that flight complaining about how much he made then.

I can also tell you that if you are in it for the money then forget it. My family was taken care of but by no means wealthy. Most pilots I know who have "made it" live a frugal lifestyle by nature. I am not looking forward, however, to paying back loans when making $20,000/year. I think it's a travesty to see the salaries plummet, especially in a business where there is no security - just ask United pilots about their "retirement".

Doug - could you post your schedule for the month, I always find that interesting. Was most of your time away due to commuting?

eRiCdWoNg · October 3rd, 2003, 12:47

You guys are scaring me now. Is the pay really THAT bad????

August 29th, 2003, 12:58	#26
shooter13 Old Skool Join Date: May 2002 Location: South Carolina Posts: 1,952	Re: Airline Pay you may want to duck powerlifter. You are about to get slammed...

August 29th, 2003, 13:31	#27
flycanuck Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Ontario, Canada (CYXU) Posts: 245	Re: Airline Pay [ QUOTE ] Wow, after checking those United wages, it's no wonder they've been having financial difficulties. Call me crazy, but $150,000 per year seems pretty excessive, given the supply of willing pilots out there. [/ QUOTE ] Since I do not want to get into a dog fight, I will just force myself to laugh uncontrollably.....

August 29th, 2003, 14:22	#28
EatSleepFly Old Skool Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: ?? Posts: 4,637	Re: Airline Pay Let the slamming begin... [ QUOTE ] Call me crazy, but $150,000 per year seems pretty excessive, given the supply of willing pilots out there. [/ QUOTE ] Jackass.

August 29th, 2003, 14:25	#29
Mr_Creepy Old Skool Join Date: May 2003 Location: In the O-zone Posts: 5,835	Re: Airline Pay We don't seem to have a shortage of Lawyers, either, yet some of them seem to make 300-400k a year. Who do you want in the cockpit of your next airliner? A $150,000 captain who's happy? Or a $30,000 pilot with 1500 hrs and the ink still wet on his ATP?

August 29th, 2003, 14:42	#30
TheWife Old Skool Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Utah Posts: 4,180	Re: Airline Pay Is it not true any more that some very senior pilots make 200-300K?? I think I heard those rates once for int'l flying, but maybe it's not like that anymore?

August 29th, 2003, 15:40	#31
Eagle Banned Join Date: Oct 2000 Posts: 1,272	Re: Airline Pay a listing from avjobs.com very very few pilots make over 200k, a year, I would guess less than 1%. Pilot Careers..... pay ......education required .....needed training ..... Who hires Agricultural Pilot $20,000 - $70,000 High school diploma, special training, and license Agricultural operators, large farms Air Taxi Pilot $9 - $18 / hr College Preferred Fixed base operators, air taxi operators Air Traffic Reporting Pilot $18,000 - $40,000 College Preferred Radio & TV; traffic reporting companies Astronaut $42,000 - $80,000 Engineering, physical science, physics, or similar advanced degree NASA Corporate Pilot $19,400 - $115,000 College Preferred; most require 4 year degree Companies with flight departments Flight Instructor $12,300 - $40,530 H.S. diploma Flight schools Helicopter Pilot $29,000 - $57,000 College Preferred; most require 4 year degree Helicopter operators, corporate flight departments Major / National Airline Pilot $23,000 - $250,000 College Preferred; most require 4 year degree Major and National Airlines Military Pilot $21,290 - $99,000 College degree U.S. Armed Forces Regional Airline Pilot $16,500 - $60,000 College Preferred; most require 4 year degree Regional Airlines Test Pilot $15,000 - $200,000 College Preferred FAA, airlines, aircraft manufacturing plants, government agencies

August 29th, 2003, 17:26	#32
TheWife Old Skool Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Utah Posts: 4,180	Re: Airline Pay Very interesting...thank you for finding that! So I guess my hopes of some day buying a private island in Fiji are gettting diminished. LOL.

August 29th, 2003, 17:30	#33
Eagle Banned Join Date: Oct 2000 Posts: 1,272	Re: Airline Pay [ QUOTE ] Very interesting...thank you for finding that! So I guess my hopes of some day buying a private island in Fiji are gettting diminished. LOL. [/ QUOTE ] like all things if you work for it it can happen. If you are relying on your husband's pay to meet that goal, then yeah I'd scrap that idea pretty fast.

August 29th, 2003, 17:38	#34
TheWife Old Skool Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Utah Posts: 4,180	Re: Airline Pay Guess I better get a job as a phone psychic. Actually my only goal is to have enough money to take care of our needs, not our wants, anything above and beyond that, I consider to be major bonus. BTW-what kind of benfits do they usually get aside from the check? Is health insurance paid for or a 401K or anything like that, or is it usually just the money? I have no idea how these things work, how unions work, etc.

August 29th, 2003, 20:53	#35
Athena Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Northwest State of Mind, WA Posts: 477	Re: Airline Pay Iagree with you about the pay thing. I have been a broke ass bastard for years. I am OK with being broke but I would like to do work i can enjoy. As a side note...I have heard it is difficult to get life insurance as a pilot. Is it true?

August 29th, 2003, 21:00	#36
TheWife Old Skool Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Utah Posts: 4,180	Re: Airline Pay Once you meet minimum hours (500 I believe) life ins. isn't THAT bad. But until then, that's when you are the most dangerous from what I have heard, so it's unaffordable. There are some specific companies that insurance just pilots though and give them group rates, I think they advertise in some of the flying mags.

August 29th, 2003, 21:08	#37
Athena Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Northwest State of Mind, WA Posts: 477	Re: Airline Pay Thanks alot...I appreciate it.

August 29th, 2003, 23:37	#38
triplec76 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 946	Re: Airline Pay Life insurance is pretty reasonable if you meet whatever guidlines your insurer sets. I pay a little higher premium because I dont have quite enough hours solo (not PIC, but actual solo) time as State Farm would like. I will meet the requirement for them soon, but its a yearly renewal so I will pay the higher premium until the policy is renewed. The increased premium isnt that much, and if you are flying through your certificates/ratings it isnt a big hassle.

August 30th, 2003, 01:14	#39
kellwolf Old Skool Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Memphis, TN Posts: 16,979	Re: Airline Pay [ QUOTE ] Is health insurance paid for or a 401K or anything like that, or is it usually just the money? I have no idea how these things work, how unions work, etc. [/ QUOTE ] As a RAMP AGENT, I get pretty decent benefits from the airline. Health insurance is fairly reasonable (med, dental, vision, etc), the 401K rock the house (vested already, and I've only been there a little over a year), and I get profit-sharing. 'Course this is just one airline, it varies at each one depending on union contracts. I would assume the pilots would AT LEAST get the same benefits deal as the lowly rampers and customer service.

August 30th, 2003, 18:44	#40
powerlifter Newbie Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 15	Re: Airline Pay [ QUOTE ] We don't seem to have a shortage of Lawyers, either, yet some of them seem to make 300-400k a year. Who do you want in the cockpit of your next airliner? A $150,000 captain who's happy? Or a $30,000 pilot with 1500 hrs and the ink still wet on his ATP? [/ QUOTE ] Is there a shortage of lawyers? No. Is there a shortage of lawyers who can reasonably demand $300,000 per year? Yes. This is why they're so highly paid. Connections and legal expertise go a long way in law, and can earn/save your clients a great deal of wealth. The bottom line is that those lawyers are worth every cent of that wage. That's why you don't see lawyer unions. The issue here is whether a pilot with 12 years of seniority at an airline deserves $100,000 more than the pilot with 3 years. In law, that sort of seniority would usually justify the pay difference, since experience and connections are worth so much in that field. But how much is that 9 years of experience flying aircraft worth, especially when you've got experienced, furloughed pilots who would be happy to work at a fraction of the union rate? Of course, I want the pilot with the most experience flying my plane. But at what price? If you've got two pilots with equal experiece, and one is willing to work at half the other's wage, I'll take the cheap guy.

August 30th, 2003, 18:50	#41
EatSleepFly Old Skool Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: ?? Posts: 4,637	Re: Airline Pay [ QUOTE ] But at what price? If you've got two pilots with equal experiece, and one is willing to work at half the other's wage, I'll take the cheap guy. [/ QUOTE ] Good for you. Now go search the forums, and you'll find plenty of debates on this topic. This is a war you will not likely win on this website, so I wouldn't even bother- it'll probably just turn into a flame fest.

August 30th, 2003, 21:21	#42
flycanuck Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Ontario, Canada (CYXU) Posts: 245	Re: Airline Pay [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] But at what price? If you've got two pilots with equal experiece, and one is willing to work at half the other's wage, I'll take the cheap guy. [/ QUOTE ] Good for you. Now go search the forums, and you'll find plenty of debates on this topic. This is a war you will not likely win on this website, so I wouldn't even bother- it'll probably just turn into a flame fest. [/ QUOTE ] I don't think what he said is very debatable. An employer would be stupid not to pick a guy who will work for less with equal skills/experience. What I wouldn't start doing is going around and telling people that airline pilots are overpaid or start ranting about how you will fly for free. Even if it is just a figure of speech.

August 30th, 2003, 21:58	#43
EatSleepFly Old Skool Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: ?? Posts: 4,637	Re: Airline Pay [ QUOTE ] What I wouldn't start doing is going around and telling people that airline pilots are overpaid like some guy did earlier in this thread [/ QUOTE ] Yeah, some guy....like maybe the guy I was talking to... I'm not going to get into a pissing match over this. I'm just pointing out that you will open Pandora's Box by saying things like that.

September 1st, 2003, 01:06	#44
aal777 Newbie Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 2	Re: Airline Pay Hello, I just wanted to offer some links to a couple of articles and one chart about pilot pay for major carriers. Even though these are just a few of the many articles I have read about this subject, most of the articles confirm that pilots working for a major carrier will make six figure incomes. This is also confirmed by many airline pilots whom I have spoken with. http://archives.seattletimes.nwsourc...uery=pilot+pay http://www.forbes.com/global/2003/0217/046.html http://www.jet-jobs.com/press%20rele...linefacts.html

September 1st, 2003, 12:33	#45
flycanuck Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Ontario, Canada (CYXU) Posts: 245	Re: Airline Pay Thanks for the links. Damn! Those U.S air guys took some hefty pay cuts. I know all the majors are in bad shape but most of the focus is on UAL, AA, and U.S air. What about NW, Delta and Continental?

September 2nd, 2003, 02:28	#46
Doug Taylor Agent Smith Join Date: Dec 1969 Location: KSDL Posts: 50,368 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Airline Pay Hellllllll naw! Dougie gots ta get paid! I worked my ass off too long and put up with way too much bull to get to where I am to earn only enough to cover rent and an occasional trip to IHOP. This job is hard, rough on the family life (even with being a childless couple) and you're way closer to death on a weekly basis than the general public may care to hear. Or even some pilots. I would not do my job for $30,000 per year. Considering that I've seen my wife a grand total of 48 hours in the past 12 days, pshaw! I'd rather work down at Bank of America and have someone to snuggle up to every evening. Considering I've only slept in my bed 12 nights since July 31st...

September 2nd, 2003, 14:37	#47
Athena Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Northwest State of Mind, WA Posts: 477	Re: Airline Pay That is precisely why I am gonna carry my own pillow and blankie. (I hate crunch hotel sheets) Bring some home with me if I can't be there.

September 2nd, 2003, 15:26	#48
ready2fly Old Skool Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: DFW Posts: 7,993	Re: Airline Pay [ QUOTE ] crunch hotel sheets [/ QUOTE ] Eeeewwww - BLEH!!!

September 3rd, 2003, 14:04	#49
250blue Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 130	Re: Airline Pay This always cracks me up. My mother was on a flight when my dad was captain, they lost an engine (767) and had to return to the airport. She said she didn't hear anyone on that flight complaining about how much he made then. I can also tell you that if you are in it for the money then forget it. My family was taken care of but by no means wealthy. Most pilots I know who have "made it" live a frugal lifestyle by nature. I am not looking forward, however, to paying back loans when making $20,000/year. I think it's a travesty to see the salaries plummet, especially in a business where there is no security - just ask United pilots about their "retirement". Doug - could you post your schedule for the month, I always find that interesting. Was most of your time away due to commuting?

October 3rd, 2003, 12:47	#50
eRiCdWoNg Newbie Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 23	Re: Airline Pay You guys are scaring me now. Is the pay really THAT bad????

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