Pinnacle Interviews in Jacksonville, FL

[ComplexHiAv8r]

Not sure why I got this email, but:

On-Site Interviews with Pinnacle Airlines / Northwest Airlink

In just three weeks, Pinnacle Airlines (Northwest Airlink) will interview a pool of ATP Instructors and Airline Transition Program graduates on-site at ATP's headquarters in Jacksonville Beach, Florida.
Pinnacle will also interview a select number of pilots prior to their enrollment in the Airline Transition Program for Conditional Offers of Employment.
After successful completion of the interview, Pinnacle knows that applicants will quickly gain a high level of proficiency and standardization in ATP's 60-day Airline Transition Program. If you're pursuing an airline job, have 350 hours total time, and would like to know you're hired before investing $24,995, visit ATP's web site and complete the application to be invited to 4 days of complimentary interview and sim prep, and an interview with Pinnacle.
Check out the web site for details:
<http://www2.atpflightschool.com/go.lasso?p=a&c=53116>
Sincerely,
James
--
James Krzeminski
Director of Admissions
Airline Transport Professionals (ATP)
800-ALL-ATPS / 800-255-2877
Web: <http://www.allatps.com>
Email: <mailto:james@allatps.com>

[Diamnd15]

great gig if you want to spend 25k for a f/o slot at pinnacle...this is going to start a lot comments, should be fun to watch

[DE727UPS]

ATP has now joined the ranks of PFT. Congratz...

[Bigey]

Originally Posted by DE727UPS

ATP has now joined the ranks of PFT. Congratz...

Oh friggen great!!

[bwade210]

Originally Posted by DE727UPS

ATP has now joined the ranks of PFT. Congratz...

What does PFT stand for?! The reason I ask.... is I attend a flight school here in Ft. Lauderdale commonly called PFT as in Professional Flight Training!

[Diamnd15]

pay for training, or pfj pay for job, not good

[musicmixer]

It doesn't read to me that this is PFT, it seems more like a golden carrot (guaranteed job if you pay) Probably good for the current instructors to come and interview though.

[DE727UPS]

Okay. It's PFJ, then. It's part of the Walmartization of the piloting career path. I see it as a disgrace....

"Probably good for the current instructors to come and interview though"

Wouldn't said instructors then have to pay 25K for the job as opposed to instructing another six months to make themselves competitive .

[Sean_S]

From my post over in the ATP forum. Only in this industry would someone pay 25k above and beyond ratings to make 19k a year. I guess it’s a good thing that these tools are in aviation and not investing or financial planning.

For anyone stupid enough to do this…. I tell you what I have a program for you! You pay for airfare to my house once you arrive and I collect the $5,000 fee I will then kick you in the nuts after this I will get you an interview at one of these fine local establishments; Kmart, McDonalds, Wal-Mart, or Burger King. If I fail to get you a job I will refund your $5,000 bucks and you can keep the nut kicking for free. Think about it the ratio of debt to first year income is better in my program then the direct track program.

[musicmixer]

Originally Posted by DE727UPS

Okay. It's PFJ, then. It's part of the Walmartization of the piloting career path. I see it as a disgrace....

"Probably good for the current instructors to come and interview though"

Wouldn't said instructors then have to pay 25K for the job as opposed to instructing another six months to make themselves competitive .

Agreed. Not sure if the instructors have to pay the 25k, but if it's a free deal for the instructors to interview then cool, if not that just ridiculous! They sent me the email too and I haven't instructed there in over 9 months.

[Timbuff10]

I think it works like this. Pinnacle will be interviewing and hiring current ATP instructors and grads of the 90 day program. In addition Pinnacle will interview people who are considering doing the 60 day $25K program that didn't necessarily go through an ATP program already. If they have 350 hrs and Pinnacle likes them they will offer conditional employment if the potential new hire agrees to do ATP's 60 day $25K program.

These people that pinnacle would be offering jobs to if they do the program are the ones that would be buying their jobs and Pinnacle. Pinnacle should be ashamed of themselves for this sort of thing. And as for ATP, well this is not making me a proud ATP graduate.

Pretty sad but as someone once said, "the aviation industry is for suckers"... Looks like this is proving that saying to be true.

By the way, I can offer that same nut-kicking deal at half price!

[GaTechKid]

Originally Posted by DE727UPS

Okay. It's PFJ, then. It's part of the Walmartization of the piloting career path. I see it as a disgrace....

"Probably good for the current instructors to come and interview though"

Wouldn't said instructors then have to pay 25K for the job as opposed to instructing another six months to make themselves competitive .

No they would not. Those instructors would have the minimum 500 hours TT, the majority in time spent as a MEI, and would have probably gone through the CRJ course which they paid $1,000 to take. This 25K program is for people with at least 350 hours and who don't want to instruct. The program consists of:

100 Hours Multi-Engine PIC.
50 Hours Glass Cockpit Single-Engine PIC.
Includes Regional Jet Standards Certification Program.
(20 Hours CRJ-200 FTD + ground school)
Includes Flight Management System (FMS) PC-based simulator software
ATP Written Prep & Exam

[meritflyer]

There are programs out there that provide additional training and ratings (type) for those who want to spend big bucks. Whether you go to CAE for you ERJ type or ATP for your airline transition.. big deal. Its the students pocket book that takes the hit not yours. So dont lose any sleep at night over it. These programs are here to stay and there are plenty of good, bad, smart, and dumb pilots to fill their classes. If you are so against them, dont take part in them. That is about the only counter measure you are capable of unless one of the schools hire you as their program director and you can convince the CEO these programs are the devil.

Do these programs provide useless information? Probably not. Are they required to succeed in becoming an airline pilot? No.

[WestIndian425]

I got the email as well. I must admitadmit it is a marketing tool for the "new" program.

I find ATP to be a very good school. This new program is targeting those who aren't instructors and are not planning to become instructors. I personally wouldn't want to take that route, but there are people who just don't want to instruct.

I say "new" becuase it appears to be a revamping of another program they had when I was finishing up my ACP (remember that one, Kyle?). I opted to get my instructor ratings and build my time and experience that way (I've spent enough money).

Neil

[Timbuff10]

So am I wrong in thinking that programs like these make it harder for a regular CFI to get hired eventually?

I know a few guys that just got hired at Pinnacle, they are great CFIs and busted their butts for a few years the old fashioned way to get to the same place that some guy who is dropping $25K will be. Just doesn't seem right.

Don't hate the player hate the game right? I guess you just have to make "it" work for you and say screw everyone else.

[WestIndian425]

Originally Posted by Timbuff10

So am I wrong in thinking that programs like these make it harder for a regular CFI to get hired eventually?

I know a few guys that just got hired at Pinnacle, they are great CFIs and busted their butts for a few years the old fashioned way to get to the same place that some guy who is dropping $25K will be. Just doesn't seem right.

Don't hate the player hate the game right? I guess you just have to make "it" work for you and say screw everyone else.

Believe me, I know what you mean. I'm taking the instructor route, and though it can be frustrating at times, I'm happy with my choice.

The one thing I can say is that this seems a bit different than what GTA is doing because at least those who go through the program aren't "working" for an airline while building time to get on with another airline.

Neil

Neil

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

DE,

How's this PFT?

You agreed that Flight Safety Academy's Direct Track program was not exactly PFT... this setup is pretty much the same thing. You interview first, and if hired, you do the program for $24k.

[BrettInLJ]

Originally Posted by Timbuff10

So am I wrong in thinking that programs like these make it harder for a regular CFI to get hired eventually?

I know a few guys that just got hired at Pinnacle, they are great CFIs and busted their butts for a few years the old fashioned way to get to the same place that some guy who is dropping $25K will be. Just doesn't seem right.

Don't hate the player hate the game right? I guess you just have to make "it" work for you and say screw everyone else.

It can be frustrating. When I read this I realized that if I wanted to I could have qualified and taken out a $25k loan when I had started full time and probably been a part of this. I really enjoy instructing and the friends I have made going the CFI route, so I have no regrets. It would be a shame though if this kind of program eventually made it harder for guys like me to get one of the pilot slots because they were already filled six or twelve months earlier.

[Sean_S]

Originally Posted by meritflyer

There are programs out there that provide additional training and ratings (type) for those who want to spend big bucks. Whether you go to CAE for you ERJ type or ATP for your airline transition.. big deal. Its the students pocket book that takes the hit not yours. So dont lose any sleep at night over it. These programs are here to stay and there are plenty of SUCKERS to fill their classes. If you are so against them, dont take part in them. That is about the only counter measure you are capable of unless one of the schools hire you as their program director and you can convince the CEO these programs are the devil.

Do these programs provide useless information? Probably not. Are they required to succeed in becoming an airline pilot? No.

Big deal? Your argument is weak you don't even get a type at ATP! When I went through ATP all the people I ran into that were doing the direct track program weren't really receiving any additional training other then the pay to play CRJ pilot part of the program. I hardly consider the cross country fly half the time baby sit the other training. All of our pocket books will take a hit. Do you really think the idiots who go through this program don't lower the bar? If they are willing to pay to get an airline job they are the types that are willing to take lower and lower pay just to fly that nice jet.

BTW I fixed your error

[Timbuff10]

Well, I know three guys that interviewed there. Two were close to or over the 2000/250 hr mark and another was just over 1000/100. The two higher time guys got hired but the guy with 1000/100 didn't.

So what this tells me is they will take guys with a bunch of hours, or if you also pay $25 grand they will take you at 350 hrs.

"we prefer experience, unless you want to pay us alot, then we can care less and just want your money."

I'm wondering if the 1000/100 guy would have had a better chance had this program not been coming up?

[musicmixer]

Originally Posted by Timbuff10

Well, I know three guys that interviewed there. Two were close to or over the 2000/250 hr mark and another was just over 1000/100. The two higher time guys got hired but the guy with 1000/100 didn't.

So what this tells me is they will take guys with a bunch of hours, or if you also pay $25 grand they will take you at 350 hrs.

"we prefer experience, unless you want to pay us alot, then we can care less and just want your money."

I'm wondering if the 1000/100 guy would have had a better chance had this program not been coming up?

From what I understand they have been taking low time pilots (1000 and less) for some time now. Their pilots are getting and have been getting a $500 bonus if they recommend somebody and the applicant successfully completes the interview.

[Captain_Bob]

http://jetcareers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26450 for other viewpoints...

Also... the old "I had a buddy that had thousands of hours and can't get hired..." issue is a bit suspect in my opinion. It's purely speculative. Did he interview well?, Did he use all his resources to get an interview?, Does he have "quality" time versus simply "quantity" time?

I've personally known people who bitc*ed that they couldn't get hired when everyone else around them was getting hired... and it was primarily due to the fact that they didn't bust their butts like the others and get their resumes out there, attend hiring fairs, look for gouges, or maybe they interviewed once didn't get hired and now are bitter and don't feel like they can get hired.... either way...

If you want something quick... your going to pay for it... that's America... remember when the new VW beetles rolled out? Folks were paying $30-$35k ($10k-$15k higher than retail) for them because they wanted them now... Once the demand went down... they were back to normal prices.

When I bought my first house... I didn't have the credit yet to get a decent interest rate. So... I could have waited an extra year or two, worked on my credit and save a few extra bucks then buy the house... or I could have signed the loan with the higher interest rate to get the house that I wanted for my family then... guess what I did?

Originally Posted by Timbuff10

"we prefer experience, unless you want to pay us alot, then we can care less and just want your money."

I'm wondering if the 1000/100 guy would have had a better chance had this program not been coming up?

Tim... this is not PFT/PFJ in the tradtional sense... (see the link above for my response to that). It's not that you are simply paying more money to get a job... you are paying more money for more "experience" by essentially renting the aircraft from ATP. Asking about the 1000/100 hour guy having a better chance, is leading you down the path of thinking that this is a PFJ situation... but it's not. One pilot that meets the mins by building time one way (paying to rent aircraft) vs. another pilot that builds time to meet the mins by instructing... doesn't ruin the AIRLINE industry, as in typical PFJ fashion. It's simply competition for your first 121 job, and it means one person took a different path based on his/her needs, wants, and desires... and of course financial situation. There's competition out there for ALL jobs.

Pinnacle, in this example... isn't just shutting the doors to everyone and opening them up to only these Transition guys (look at the ad... they are only going to be interviewing 6 pilots... and they could all be instructors if no Transistion candidates show) They as a business are looking at all avenues of gaining quality candidates. I'm willing to bet money that in whichever newhire class one or two of these Transition guys end up in... there will be a mix of low timers and high timers...

Bob

[Timbuff10]

I don't know, I am sure it will work for some, for others it may not and they will be out of a lot of $$ with no job. I think it is a great opportunity for some ATP instructors though, that is awesome.

This isn't for me though. I think I am pretty much done spending money on more training but I think mainly because that would mean going back to Jacksonville, Florida. Yuck!

After everything I have been through and seen, I think I can easily say that the fastest and cheapest way to an airline job is doing ATP's 90 day program and then instructing for them.

[Captain_Bob]

Originally Posted by Timbuff10

I don't know, I am sure it will work for some, for others it may not and they will be out of a lot of $$ with no job.

No arguements there Tim... of course, that's the risk we all took... whichever route we chose.

...and just to clarify... I'm not an advocate of this program... although it may seem so from my posts. I'm am simply trying to clarify some misperceptions that a lot of folks have regarding the whole PFJ issue which I'm certain could send this thread to the "Hot Topics" forum before too long.

Bob

[kellwolf]

Great. Just what I need. MORE 250-300 hour pilots sitting next to me. When I had wet ink on my CMEL, I was scared to death to fly anything bigger than a Seminole. Not b/c I'm a wuss, b/c I'm a realist. Even with close to 1000 hours, the sim eats my lunch quite a few times. There was one guy in my interview class with around 200-230 hours, and he realizes he made the mistake by going to CAPT. He's gonna be an FO for a LOOONG time (need 3000 TT at least to upgrade here), and he's got more debt than the rest of us.

As far as the paying the extra $25K, YES THAT DOES HURT CFIs TRYING TO GET THE JOB. Trust me on this one. I watched guys with half the time I had getting snapped up at places like PSA, XJT, ASA, etc while I couldn't even get a phone call. PSA was nice enough to send me a letter saying I didn't have the 1000 hours they required. I was bitter then, but I've kinda mellowed now.

To those of you that will undoubtedly dog PCL thinking they're getting the $25K to lower the mins, you're wrong. ATP gets the money. PCL may or may not get a kickback (if they do, they should share it with the pilot group since we're gonna be the ones taking the hit out on the line) but we'll never know that. Right now, we're bleeding FOs and Capts, so we need people. A lot of our attrition is on the FO side, so what better way (from a mgmt perspective) to lock in FOs than hiring 200 hour guys that can't upgrade for about 3 years?

Plus, this sounds EXACTLY like FSI's deal with ASA back in the day.