Do employers use flightaware to verify flights in logbooks?

[aloft]

Originally Posted by mavsfan31

Why is that? I know it's true and all, but what does it really matter?

Keeps shareholders in the dark as to how often corporate resources are used for personal or pleasure travel. Not many big corporations have operations in Aspen, for instance, but it's a safe bet that most corporate jets make trips there every winter.

[SteveC]

Originally Posted by aloft

Keeps shareholders in the dark as to how often corporate resources are used for personal or pleasure travel. Not many big corporations have operations in Aspen, for instance, but it's a safe bet that most corporate jets make trips there every winter.

Maybe true, but that certainly doesn't match my experience. We manage 13 aircraft. 1 is blocked, and it is the one that is the LEAST used for personal or pleasure travel by the owners. They're in a highly competitive wholesale/retail business though, and my understanding is they block the tail to keep their competitors from knowing what community(s) they are looking to expand to.

[bdhill1979]

Matt, my tailnumber is not blocked, so you can stalk me on that straight line between here and Henderson, NV, and back; and there and back again, and again..............

[Douglas]

I wonder how much the FSDO guys will type in 135 aircraft in their district to see how much they are flying. I guess it wouldn't matter unless it was a one pilot operation.

I take that back, they could bust somebody on duty day for a long out and back.

Big brother.

[aloft]

Originally Posted by bdhill1979

Matt, my tailnumber is not blocked, so you can stalk me on that straight line between here and Henderson, NV, and back; and there and back again, and again..............

Cuz you KNOW I'm stalking you day and night, you sexy beast!

[ricecakecm]

Originally Posted by aloft

Keeps shareholders in the dark as to how often corporate resources are used for personal or pleasure travel. Not many big corporations have operations in Aspen, for instance, but it's a safe bet that most corporate jets make trips there every winter.

Dude, it's mainly to keep competitors from seeing where you're going, for security, etc. If you're Coca Cola, do you want Pepsi to see where you're going? If you're an oil company, do you want Green Peace to see where you're headed today?

Believe it or not, I've flown people to ASE for business. Same with EGE and RIL.

[RPM]

yes they do use it.

Eagle not only uses flight aware for random spot checks, but they require ALL receipts for every hour of documented flight time in your log book.. and they call previous employers to verify every single hour you logged with such company.. If you don't have a receipt or proof of the time on your app they ban you from ever re-applying and notify the FAA for falsification..

Or if the airline wants to do it the easy way, they just browse on JC and look for people dumb enough to try and publicly figure out ways to pencil-whip a logbook without getting caught.. match up an email address.. and your screwed lol.

[aloft]

Originally Posted by RPM

yes they do use it.

Eagle not only uses flight aware for random spot checks, but they require ALL receipts for every hour of documented flight time in your log book.. and they call previous employers to verify every single hour you logged with such company.. If you don't have a receipt or proof of the time on your app they ban you from ever re-applying and notify the FAA for falsification..

We're a few weeks early for an April Fool's joke, so against my better judgment, I'm going to assume this is a serious post.

That's utterly ridiculous. Who would keep such receipts? And what former employer is going to agree to do a line-by-line logbook audit? Not all companies even track such things, particularly their pilots are salaried instead of hourly.

As for notifying the FAA of falsification, if the FAA wants to play along with that, they need to create a FAR requiring pilots to maintain archives of their receipts, establishing low long such records must be kept, etc. Frankly, I don't see it happening.

[RPM]

I'm going to assume this is a serious post

come on now aloft.. we all know about "ass"umptions

Im assuming your smart enough to figure it out on your own.. if not shoot me a pm and i'll give you the "insider super secret tactics" American Eagle uses to catch pencil-whippers. I won't give out the real secrets in public. All I'll say is it will make it very difficult to get a future job at the airlines when your busted "literally".. check airmen aren't stupid

[Doug Taylor]

Originally Posted by RPM

Or if the airline wants to do it the easy way, they just browse on JC and look for people dumb enough to try and publicly figure out ways to pencil-whip a logbook without getting caught.. match up an email address.. and your screwed lol.

Oh heck, 40% of the email addresses aren't even valid! You should see the hunk of returned mail I get from people who haven't updated their email addresses but think the "subscribe to thread" feature is going to magically work!

I don't give out registration details to third parties anyway. But then, I also don't honor any "Hey, I wrote something four years ago and could you delete it because it showed up in Google?" requests either. That'd be a full time job.

[RPM]

I'm not saying you rat people out and give out emails Doug.. it was a poor attempt at sarcasm lol.

I figure if someone is dumb enough to post on a major website about how to cheat the system.. they are probably dumb enough to get caught.. but there are other ways they get caught as well, I've seen it at my company.. and it doesn't go well for the person. Then there are others that skate by with a logbook full of crapola.. Do ya feel lucky?

I've seen these posts pop up time to time over the years and they always get like 10,000 views from interested newbies looking to "build" time.. "hey guys, umm, do airlines really check everything in your log book cuz I umm, have a friends cousins brother who maybe, uhh, kinda put some things in there that might.. uhh be slightly umm "inaccurate" totally by mistake though .. "

Why don't you just come out and say it... "If I put a crapload of fake flight time in my log book will I get caught in an airline interview?"

We all know that is the real question they are wanting to ask lol.

Now maybe this was actually a legitimate question for whatever reason... but it certainly fits the "profile" of that type of question.

[aloft]

Originally Posted by RPM

come on now aloft.. we all know about "ass"umptions

That's kinda what I figured, I just wouldn't want someone to see that and not apply to a job they're fully qualified for simply because they didn't keep all their flight school receipts. I sure as hell didn't.

[Doug Taylor]

Originally Posted by RPM

I'm not saying you rat people out and give out emails Doug.. it was a poor attempt at sarcasm lol.

It's all good.

Oh, people ask though!

"I demand the identity of (name)!"

Doug: Delete Button *clicky*

[Cessna414JJB]

Originally Posted by RPM;1122389"

If I put a crapload of fake flight time in my log book will I get caught in an airline interview?"

Statement! Forever on Goooooooooooooooooooooooooooogle.


Wasn't there some Floridians taxiing around with some old beaten up Aztec (with a safety pilot, nonetheless) to 'build Multi Engine PIC time?"

When did the FAA come out with the "intention of flight" rule?

Logbooks are 'personal document' the regs do not require logging anything other than currency and flights to meet regulatory requirements.
There are some logbooks in circulation which look scary - to say the least.

I have seen CFI's create a "one day collect entry", showing 3 different callsigns, with nothing but the names of students, with total time 8.0.
There is no way of ever figuring out if these flight actually took place, since there are no aircraft logbooks to refer to. Good luck finding details.

[JustinA]

Originally Posted by Cessna414JJB

I have seen CFI's create a "one day collect entry", showing 3 different callsigns, with nothing but the names of students, with total time 8.0.
There is no way of ever figuring out if these flight actually took place, since there are no aircraft logbooks to refer to. Good luck finding details.

I only put the students name in my logbook. Is this bad or something?

[MikeOH58]

Originally Posted by AG3FLY

Do employers use Flight Aware to verify flights in your logbook?

Yes, you are screwed.

[Boris Badenov]

They do. If you think coming up with all of that P51 time was difficult, try figuring out what to erase! D'oh!

[ppragman]

Originally Posted by RPM

I'm not saying you rat people out and give out emails Doug.. it was a poor attempt at sarcasm lol.

I figure if someone is dumb enough to post on a major website about how to cheat the system.. they are probably dumb enough to get caught.. but there are other ways they get caught as well, I've seen it at my company.. and it doesn't go well for the person. Then there are others that skate by with a logbook full of crapola.. Do ya feel lucky?

I've seen these posts pop up time to time over the years and they always get like 10,000 views from interested newbies looking to "build" time.. "hey guys, umm, do airlines really check everything in your log book cuz I umm, have a friends cousins brother who maybe, uhh, kinda put some things in there that might.. uhh be slightly umm "inaccurate" totally by mistake though .. "

Why don't you just come out and say it... "If I put a crapload of fake flight time in my log book will I get caught in an airline interview?"

We all know that is the real question they are wanting to ask lol.

Now maybe this was actually a legitimate question for whatever reason... but it certainly fits the "profile" of that type of question.

What I heard from an old timer is that "you can't really get away with more than 10% of what your total time is, which doesn't really help you any, so don't bother."

That's not to say it isn't done.

[Patrick]

I've heard discussions pertaining to and actually been asked essentially how to Parker P-51 a logbook. I've heard comments ranging from taxing the aircraft around to leaving the country for a year and miraculously coming back with an extra 1000 hours to sitting in the jumpseat on an airliner and logging that time. I have no doubt that there are others.

What is really comes down to, to me, is that it's going to be pretty obvious (unless you're the next Buzz Aldrin) that if you put down 1000 hours of total flight time on an application, yet you only have 300, and you then get selected for an interview, that between the interview and the sim session it's going to be glaringly obvious that you don't have the experience that comes with 1000 hours. For this reason, I would agree that one could conceivably get away with pencil whipping an extra 10% of flight time in there, but for the little difference that would make, why bother?

As to the idea of using flight aware to verify flight times, I think that would highly depend upon the type of flight time that one was looking to verify. Any VFR flight training will not show up on flight aware, so that doesn't work. If one is looking to verify flight time at a previous 121 or 135 opertation, it is far easier to simply ask the previous company than to run the various tail #'s of aircraft that the applicant claims to have flown. Now yes, if in the previous 3 weeks to an interview an applicant claims to have flown 50 hours of cross country time in a twin, and one twin at that, that could easily be checked.

[texas_pilot]

I asked this on another thread and never saw the answer
Does experimental time count to TT?
I don't mean powered chutes, but would RV4 time for instance count?

[OldTownPilot]

Originally Posted by texas_pilot

I asked this on another thread and never saw the answer
Does experimental time count to TT?
I don't mean powered chutes, but would RV4 time for instance count?

Yes.

The only thing that doesn't count is part 103 ultralights.

Single seat, 254 lbs empty, 5 gal, 26 mph stall etc.

[n6149s]

I will fly vfr training flights and they will show up as 7 minute flights. If you leave a class c or d airport for vfr instance, your flight will show when radar picks up your transponder. If you fly to another airport for traffic pattern work and cancel services, your flight on flightaware "ends". So a 7 minute flight on flightaware was actually 2 hours

[rd757]

VFR will only pop up when you pick up Flight Following, if the controller makes up a flight plan for you. If they just created a flight strip but no flight plan, it will not pop up.

RD

[PA44-LUV]

That's why I would backup hard-copy logbooks with electronic ones that automatically do the calculations and breakdowns. I spent 10 hours converting my logbook to an electronic copy and can't tell you the number of simple math errors I found when I did a line-by-line audit of my logbook.

[SpiraMirabilis]

If employers have such a concern that you may be padding your logbook that they would want to verify anything with anything in this environment they will just not hire you and move on to the other 50 applicants they have in the stack.

RV4 time definitely counts, its more of an airplane than many!