I just got hosed

Pilotdude3407 · July 19th, 2007, 22:59

Well I had my ASA interview today. I have worried about this day for a week now because of all the stuff they "might" ask you. I have studied every gouge that I could possibly find on the internet......It was all pointless and a waste of time.

I show up and have 4 other guys that are interviewing with me. They all seem to be super guys and I wish all of them luck. So we do the company overview as previously gouged and the two guys in the room are super nice too. Then comes test time. They randomly pick folders of who will be interviewed first and who will take the test. Me and another guy are selected to take the test while the other three go for interviews. The test wasn't THAT BAD....I guess I could have goofed on it though. Anyway we finish it in like 30-40minutes and then just sit there making small talk. Like an 1hr AFTER we finish, one of the interviewers comes back up and said he needed to see a CFI...? Anyway, that was not me. So after the other guy left I sat there by myself for another 20-30minutes. Then one of the original interviewers came up and got me. Super nice guy. We go downstairs to the interview room and he asks me virtually NOTHING!!!! We go over paperwork, he said it looks good to him. After that he asks like 2 situation questions which I answer correctly and after that we make small talk and he is like, ok we are done. He talks a lot about the sim the next day then we depart.

So I call the number and I am not selected!!! What the heck? Out of 4.5 hrs of my day I spend all of 15min talking to someone and they don't ask me back? And before some of you start saying what might have happened, let me tell you what didn't happen. I had my test with me until he let me go, so it was not graded or even looked at before the interview. He said he had not even looked at my paperwork before we had gotten into the room and I did not have any disqualifiers like arrests or more speeding tickets than I claim or anything about lying.....HE DIDN'T EVEN LOOK AT MY LOGBOOKS!!! Now some of you may say I am a sore looser and I very well may be, but don't you think I got done kinda wrong?? Everyone else got 1hr+ interviews and mine was 15min. I had every inch of jepp charts memorized....I knew all the 121 minimums....I can tell you in great detail about every system on the King Air plus memory items on the checklist, and he asked me nothing. He didn't even ask how I got into flying.

Now if I bombed the test...then I bombed the test and I can live with that but if I did, he did not know it before my interview so something else was up. I love ASA but for a company that is DESPERATE for pilots, they sure are cutting people without even trying.

All thoughts are appreciated, because I am not taking this very well.

MSUDAWG · July 19th, 2007, 23:32

Dont worry about it, just brush it off. There are a lot of companies out there needing pilots and this one was not for you. I know this doesnt make it better but EVERYTHING happens for a reason and although you may not know that reason, God has a plan for us all...keep your head up and something will come your way....

Chewie von Nubbins · July 20th, 2007, 00:03

Call the HR contact and talk to him/her. Don't be negative AT ALL..but tell the person that you would like to better understand the situation and if you did anything wrong. People are people, and *most* people don't like the idea of doing somebody wrong. Not that you were done wrong in this situation.

Just shoot it to the person straight. Ask why they are hurting so bad for pilots, you got shown the door without the chance to prove your value...AND that ASA is the only place you want to work. AND, you would be grateful to that person forever if they would be able to get you an explanation as to why you were excluded. Most of all...you really have to sell it to this person. Don't oversell, because it comes off as fake, and don't act like a child that was picked last for a game of football.

I don't have a clue about interviewing in the aviation business, but I used to hire some very talented technical computer people. If you build a rapport with the HR person, and you get them to "buy-in" to helping your cause, you never know what can happen. Maybe there is a good reason. Maybe they only had a quota for 20 people for the month, and you were number 21. Who knows. But, I am sure that if you work the situation right, you will be able to find out what it takes to get back into that interview room.

Hope this helps.

Old Pete · July 20th, 2007, 01:07

I have no idea why they gave you the cold shoulder, and if you don't already know, you probably never will, unless you know some one on the inside at ASA. You can call the HR dept but I think it would be a waste of time. They will probably give you a vague, form letter type response.

Don't let the fact that the interviewer is being "super nice" mislead you into thinking the interview is going well. I was probably toughest on people I hired, and when I had some one I knew I was not hiring I would chit-chat for a while, smile, shake his hand and send him on his way.

I wouldn't be too concerned unless it happens again. Then I would take a hard look at my references. Could you have gotten a bad reference? It seems as if something happened between the time they offered you an interview and the interview itself.

Good luck on future interviews.

Pilotdude3407 · July 20th, 2007, 01:32

Hey guys, I appreciate all the positive feedback you are giving me, I was expecting to get hazed pretty good for complaining about it. I thought about writing a letter to them, but as everyone has stated before it would do no good. All I know is they cut two of us from going on to day 2. I wouldn't think I gave a bad reference. I personally called each of them and they all were honored to do it. Two of them were retired legacy Capt. and one is a current Atlanta Center controller (haha, maybe that is where I went wrong). Also, I am not sure how well I agree with the test you have to take. I mean, some of the questions were legit, but in my opinion it would not tell me anything about how much aviation knowledge anyone had. It was like the FAA written....how many people can go into one of those cold and do well? Like I said, I am not mad at ASA, I am just the kinda guy that wants to know straight up where I went wrong. Hey if I failed the test, then so be it. Hey if I came accross as arogant, then I will work on that. If you just met your quota for the month, I can handle that too, but just tell me so I know what to work on if I choose to reapply.

P&H · July 20th, 2007, 02:46

What are your times, anyway?

mtsu_av8er · July 20th, 2007, 05:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pilotdude3407

I love ASA but for a company that is DESPERATE for pilots, they sure are cutting people without even trying.

Any company can be desperate for pilots without giving up their right to be selective.

Pilotdude3407 · July 20th, 2007, 09:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by P&H

What are your times, anyway?

750TT
400ME
200Turbin
I think I may have been the only one or only one of two guys who were not a CFI....seems interesting considering they cut only two of us.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mtsu_av8er

Any company can be desperate for pilots without giving up their right to be selective.

They have every right to be selective, what I meant by the comment is that they didn't do anything to be selective. They knew nothing about me. They didn't even give me a real interview so I would not call that being selective. With that said and as bad as I hate it, they have the right to deny me for any reason on earth.

Stone Cold · July 20th, 2007, 09:43

Just curious, where'd you get the 200 Turbine? Maybe he saw 750TT and 200Turbine and thought Gulfstream or something...

mtsu_av8er · July 20th, 2007, 10:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pilotdude3407

750TT
400ME
200Turbin
I think I may have been the only one or only one of two guys who were not a CFI....seems interesting considering they cut only two of us.

Was the other guy that wasn't selected a CFI?

It sucks, but you gotta move on, man! You can always re-apply, and apply at other airlines.

OldTownPilot · July 20th, 2007, 11:12

There are so many regionals out there that are hiring that if you put the blinders on to one company you'll miss out on so many other opportunities. Everything happens for a reason in life, You'll just have to wait and find out why you arent flying for ASA.

SmitteyB · July 20th, 2007, 11:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pilotdude3407

Well I had my ASA interview today. I have worried about this day for a week now because of all the stuff they "might" ask you. I have studied every gouge that I could possibly find on the internet......It was all pointless and a waste of time.

I show up and have 4 other guys that are interviewing with me. They all seem to be super guys and I wish all of them luck. So we do the company overview as previously gouged and the two guys in the room are super nice too. Then comes test time. They randomly pick folders of who will be interviewed first and who will take the test. Me and another guy are selected to take the test while the other three go for interviews. The test wasn't THAT BAD....I guess I could have goofed on it though. Anyway we finish it in like 30-40minutes and then just sit there making small talk. Like an 1hr AFTER we finish, one of the interviewers comes back up and said he needed to see a CFI...? Anyway, that was not me. So after the other guy left I sat there by myself for another 20-30minutes. Then one of the original interviewers came up and got me. Super nice guy. We go downstairs to the interview room and he asks me virtually NOTHING!!!! We go over paperwork, he said it looks good to him. After that he asks like 2 situation questions which I answer correctly and after that we make small talk and he is like, ok we are done. He talks a lot about the sim the next day then we depart.

So I call the number and I am not selected!!! What the heck? Out of 4.5 hrs of my day I spend all of 15min talking to someone and they don't ask me back? And before some of you start saying what might have happened, let me tell you what didn't happen. I had my test with me until he let me go, so it was not graded or even looked at before the interview. He said he had not even looked at my paperwork before we had gotten into the room and I did not have any disqualifiers like arrests or more speeding tickets than I claim or anything about lying.....HE DIDN'T EVEN LOOK AT MY LOGBOOKS!!! Now some of you may say I am a sore looser and I very well may be, but don't you think I got done kinda wrong?? Everyone else got 1hr+ interviews and mine was 15min. I had every inch of jepp charts memorized....I knew all the 121 minimums....I can tell you in great detail about every system on the King Air plus memory items on the checklist, and he asked me nothing. He didn't even ask how I got into flying.

Now if I bombed the test...then I bombed the test and I can live with that but if I did, he did not know it before my interview so something else was up. I love ASA but for a company that is DESPERATE for pilots, they sure are cutting people without even trying.

All thoughts are appreciated, because I am not taking this very well.

One of my good friends interviewed with them on the 12th and he said the exact opposite. He did not get called back either.

His oral portion was near 2 hours. They're going to get a bad name and soon they wont be getting any resumes if they keep up this nonsense. Turning away good pilots....BAH.

surreal1221 · July 20th, 2007, 12:53

Pilotdude3407, I may have missed it . . .but. . .did you have any letters of recommendation from any current ASA pilots?

zmiller4 · July 20th, 2007, 13:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pilotdude3407

750TT
400ME
200Turbin
I think I may have been the only one or only one of two guys who were not a CFI....seems interesting considering they cut only two of us.

They have every right to be selective, what I meant by the comment is that they didn't do anything to be selective. They knew nothing about me. They didn't even give me a real interview so I would not call that being selective. With that said and as bad as I hate it, they have the right to deny me for any reason on earth.

I don't mean to pry, but I remember in that other thread you said that the 200 turbine was as an SIC.

You said it was legitimate time, but with no other real explanation (and you're not going to get one--no airline will tell you why they didn't hire you) you have to wonder if ASA didn't consider your SIC King Air time as legit. If they didn't, it would explain a lot.

So, was the King Air SIC time under 135 that required 2 pilots? I can't think of another situation where an airline would consider it legit to log SIC in a single-pilot aircraft. If that was the problem, I'd just readjust the logbook, get some more time, and apply somewhere else.

Pilotdude3407 · July 20th, 2007, 13:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by zmiller4

I don't mean to pry, but I remember in that other thread you said that the 200 turbine was as an SIC.

You said it was legitimate time, but with no other real explanation (and you're not going to get one--no airline will tell you why they didn't hire you) you have to wonder if ASA didn't consider your SIC King Air time as legit. If they didn't, it would explain a lot.

So, was the King Air SIC time under 135 that required 2 pilots? I can't think of another situation where an airline would consider it legit to log SIC in a single-pilot aircraft. If that was the problem, I'd just readjust the logbook, get some more time, and apply somewhere else.

The KA300/350 do require two pilots IF your capt doesn't have a single pilot endorsement and IF the airplane is certified to hold more than 9 passengers which both the 300 I flew and 350 I now fly do, so the time is legit. AND even if they threw out all of my KA time, I still have 200hrs of PIC multi in barons plus enough TT to still be considered. If that was the case they should say hey we aren't going to accept this and then I would say ok...well take it away, I still have enough time.

And as far as a current employee walking it in, I did not have it but evidently I got a good word from a management person for me....

surreal1221 · July 20th, 2007, 13:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pilotdude3407

And as far as a current employee walking it in, I did not have it but evidently the VP of Flight Operations gave a good word for me....now if that isn't worth something I don't know what is.

Roger. . .nevertheless though, putting in a good word. . .and having it on paper for the interview board to see is two different things, so I hear.

But even with your times, while it may have appeared unethical under some's eyes. . .take away that 200 hours of Turbine time, that should still leave you with over 50 me, and 500 tt.

Sorry it didn't go as you had planned. Did they give any mention of re-applying down the road?

zmiller4 · July 20th, 2007, 14:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pilotdude3407

The KA300/350 do require two pilots IF your capt doesn't have a single pilot endorsement and IF the airplane is certified to hold more than 9 passengers which both the 300 I flew and 350 I now fly do, so the time is legit. AND even if they threw out all of my KA time, I still have 200hrs of PIC multi in barons plus enough TT to still be considered. If that was the case they should say hey we aren't going to accept this and then I would say ok...well take it away, I still have enough time.

Understood. Something sounds wierd with the whole interview--I know it's frustrating to not know what happened so that you can avoid it later on.

Fly4Pay · July 20th, 2007, 14:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmitteyB

One of my good friends interviewed with them on the 12th and he said the exact opposite. He did not get called back either.

His oral portion was near 2 hours. They're going to get a bad name and soon they wont be getting any resumes if they keep up this nonsense. Turning away good pilots....BAH.

Jeez, the oral for my checkride wasn't that long....

Pilotdude3407 · July 20th, 2007, 14:55

Once again, I appreciate everyones positive attitude. Also, like I said before, I am not trying to be a sore looser about this because I can handle not being hired but what I don't like is that I feel like I wasn't even given a fair shot at it.

Someone made a comment earlier about not giving up and ASA is not the only one out there. I am aware of that and I luckily got a backup plan right before I sent my resume to ASA so hopefully it will pan out. I have already interviewed for this other opportunity and it was legit. About 1.5hrs talking with a guy about what we should be talking about....How I got started, what are my goals, tell me some stuff about the KA, Walk me through your typical day as a FO on the KA..what are your duties, what do you do and what are your thoughts on how to run smooth operations.

To me those are the questions that need to be asked because that is what being a pilot is all about. Anyway, enough rambling, hopefully that opportunity will work out.

As far as being able to reapply....yes they encourage you to reapply in 6 MONTHS however I am just out of college and the last time I checked, the bills don't get paid by sitting around for 6 months. So...I need some sort of a FULL time job because we do not fly the KA enough to support living on your own so I am all for reapplying but I am sure, well I hope I have a full time job by then. Also, what is the point in reapplying if I don't even know what failed me this time. I will walk in there with virtually the same resume, act the same way and answer the questions the same so what will be different? CHEERS

mtsu_av8er · July 20th, 2007, 15:43

You're right - the world is over.

You've given up already, it seems . . .

surreal1221 · July 20th, 2007, 17:24

Well Pilotdude. . .no one is holding the gun to your head to reapply.

Do as you wish, and do as your living situation requires. I think most of us, like any JC member moving up, are wishing you luck in finding your next employer.

GlenWimpy · July 20th, 2007, 17:54

Don't be discouraged ! You are way ahead of the game , there are lots of people still working on their ratings and time building. You will get a flying job , and in a few years be glad that they didn't chose you. AND , you might still get a call next week from them!

Be patient ! Be positive !

taseal · July 22nd, 2007, 03:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by mtsu_av8er

You're right - the world is over.

You've given up already, it seems . . .

its not that he is giving up, its just that he doesn't know what needs to be improved to reapply. if it was just because he ended up hitting a guy who had a bad day, well then... I don't know.

Don't worry dude, there are PLENTY of airliners out there that will take ya, when you posted your interview thread before I thought you would have gotten the job for sure. I would rather hire someone that has some turbine time (hey, it might not be PIC, but at least you have some type of xp in the area) over a fresh guy who just got his hours sitting during MEI flights, but I'm not an interviewer, so my opinion doesn't really count

good luck! there is still skywest, express, eagle, and if you wish mesaba, psa, pinnacle and all

mikecweb · July 22nd, 2007, 07:08

No one likes being rejected. I wouldn't have the attitude of well they are kinda stupid because they NEED me but didn't give me a chance. There is obviously something they didn't like. It sounds like you were less then confident on your written test performance. Maybe you should study that part a little more. You can always get better.
One mistake alot of guys make is, they think as long as they have the hours, the interview is more or less a formality. Definetly not the case. Also once you do get hired on someplace don't believe for a second that Indoc is a formality either. I know as desperate as we are for pilots we'll interview a select few and still only have a 60% pass rate through initial.
Good luck....

Pilotdude3407 · July 22nd, 2007, 09:18

No, I am not giving up by any means...As stated, I just wish I knew what they got me on so I can correct it. Anyway, I have calmed down and starting thinking seriously again. I think I am going to send my resume to Air Wisky next and see what happens. I have a friend who works for them and he was begging me to come and work for them too. I am starting to find out what I can about that. I will keep everyone posted. Thanks for all the support!!! CHEERS