My XJT interview experience

[Holding Short]

Originally Posted by DE727UPS

"You say that it's the king of "PFT"

DCA? Where did I say that? Gulfstream is the king of PFJ. I'm not even sure what PFT is anymore. Really, the only methods I have a problem with are Gulfstream and the direct ab initio programs that put 250 to 300 hour guys into an RJ. Gulfstream because it's their system is bad for the career and ab initio because guys with that little experience don't belong in jets.

I like DCA cause they put out guys with 1000 total and some CFI experience. I don't like the cost, the guaranteed interview scam, the $10/hr they pay CFI's, and I absolutely HATE their marketing. Overall, I don't think going to DCA is a good choice.

"It seems to me that going through the program one would have to instruct for 1.5 - 2 years (if hired). Couldn't that be considered " paying the dues"?"

Yes, it would be.

"I just want to understand why you are soo against (or passionate) about these schools?"

I've been in this business a long time and have seen a lot of things. There are a few things that I see as flat out wrong about this business. I talk about them a lot because people keep bringing it up. When someone brings it up, I consider it my duty to give an opinion about it. It's not surprising, really, that we go round and round because this in an aviation careers website with new people showing up every day (kinda like you).

I like talking about these things (at the risk of pissing off a few people) and having the chance to share my views. You are free to disagree.

Fair enough... BTW, I took a tour and decided against it.

HS

[DE727UPS]

"decided against it"

Why?

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Originally Posted by DE727UPS

"decided against it"

Why?

Because for $30K, you can go to GIA, and after 4 months, be a Beech 1900 F/O. Do that for 250 hours, and then go to PNCL, and Colgan among others.

If they offer a permanent hire as 1900 F/O, take it, and you will upgrade at just past the 1500 TT mark. Then get 500 hours PIC turbine, 2500TT, and Airtran hires you. Stick around a little bit longer for 1000+ turbine PIC, and SWA might hire you. It's happened to some GIA captains. They've ended up at majors like Airtran and SWA.


I apologize DE, now I'm just ruffling your feathers.

[Holding Short]

Originally Posted by DE727UPS

"decided against it"

Why?

It had this Used Car Lot feel to it. Also, I started talking to the instructor in the simulator room and got the impression that he wasn't to happy with his decision in going to DCA.

The guy was really honest with me. I was asking him all kinds of questions. He just looked miserable. Dude, I hope everything worked out for you, whoever you were.

Then I found jetcareers and it put an end to that.


HS

[DE727UPS]

"I apologize DE, now I'm just ruffling your feathers"

You're gonna have to try harder than that....

Maybe try telling me how much better a pilot you are if you go to FSA vs a little FBO, that usually does it.

[DE727UPS]

"Then I found jetcareers and it put an end to that"

No matter what we say here, a person needs to check out a school on their own before they make a decision (except for Gulfstream). There's is too much money at stake not to.

Whether you decided to go to DCA or not, it sounds like you did your homework and put forth some effort. Didn't just fall for the marketing or believe the recruiter.

Where did you end up?

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Originally Posted by DE727UPS

"I apologize DE, now I'm just ruffling your feathers"

You're gonna have to try harder than that....

Maybe try telling me how much better a pilot you are if you go to FSA vs a little FBO, that usually does it.

Hahahaha.

Nah, in my opinion, and In my case, stick with an FBO for at least training through your Comm-Inst-ME ratings. I bet it'll be a lot cheaper with an FBO (again, depends if you look around) than going to FSA.

No one is necessarily a better pilot if they go to DCA or FSA or a local FBO.

DE,

We all know this boards stance on Gulfstream.

But seriously, if we were to stand on the side, and look at how many people go there, and then look at what happens once they come out, what will we see?

As far as I can tell, I don't think Gulfstream is having trouble filing in their classes. I think they're pretty full actually for every class.

And once the students get done, *many* get on with PNCL. A few have gone on with Colgan, and a few accept the permanent hire offers at Gulfstream.

I think the point is that going to that academy does get you results.

Actually, ignore for a second that the academy "brings down the profession, hurts pilot careers, etc."

I think you'd have to agree that their training is top notch... the ground school, flight training, and even once you fly the line. This I've gathered from ex-students.

Their safety record is exemplary. There have been a few hipcups (gear collapse upon landing, etc), but no fatalities.

So, going solely on the notion that a 250 hr pilot isn't ready for a part 121 flying the right seat sort of goes out the window given Gulfstream's record.

And, also consider that Gulfstream has always 'hired' their F/Os through the academy. In another words, those right seats were never open to anyone else. A CFI couldn't come into the right seat and fly the Beech 1900 unless he/she went through GIA. So, it's not like students who pay the $30k are "taking" a job from a qualified pilot.... that job was never "open" to anyone BUT the Gulfstream Academy student.

I've checked my past postings regarding Gulfstream, and I see that my posts were extremely negative regarding Gulfstream.

But now that I've educated myself, I view Gulfstream much differently now.

Ignoring the PFT aspect, Gulfstream would be top notch.

[DE727UPS]

"A few have gone on with Colgan"

This guy named Heath interviewed there a while back (got hired). He mentioned the guy who interviewed him (last name was Colgan, I believe) told him they like guys from Gulfstream. How do you fight that?

"Their safety record is exemplary"

PCL 3701.

"I think the point is that going to that academy does get you results"

I don't disagree but it's a sad, sad, thing that people go that route. You could say the same thing about being a scab, don't you think? Gets you ahead of a lot of people on the list. Anything wrong with that?

"ignore for a second that the academy "brings down the profession, hurts pilot careers, etc."

Really can't do that. That's the whole point....

"I think you'd have to agree that their training is top notch... the ground school, flight training, and even once you fly the line. This I've gathered from ex-students"

I know two Pinnacle Capts who don't paint such a bright picture. Your results may vary, I guess. Some streamers will be okay. That's not the point. Point is they are paying for a job. That's not, and never will be (I hope) an accepted practice in this biz. You could say Colgan and Pinnacle accept it but line pilots should never cut these guys any slack for what they did.

"And, also consider that Gulfstream has always 'hired' their F/Os through the academy. In another words, those right seats were never open to anyone else. A CFI couldn't come into the right seat and fly the Beech 1900 unless he/she went through GIA. So, it's not like students who pay the $30k are "taking" a job from a qualified pilot.... that job was never "open" to anyone BUT the Gulfstream Academy student"

Oh come on. And we were having such a nice, un-FSA forum like, respectable discussion. That's the biggest bunch of BS I've ever heard of. Semantics. Gulfstream gets around hiring F/O's by renting out the seat for a period of time. It's sick. You can play around with the wording of it to make it look pretty but it boils down to the same thing. PFJ. Just another nail in the coffin of lowering the bar in this industry.

"I've checked my past postings regarding Gulfstream, and I see that my posts were extremely negative regarding Gulfstream."

Where the hell have you been? It's not just me saying this stuff. Do a search at APC or flightinfo.

"Ignoring the PFT aspect, Gulfstream would be top notch."

Nobody should ignore PFJ. Ever.....

"I apologize DE, now I'm just ruffling your feathers"

There....you did it. HEHE....

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Originally Posted by DE727UPS

"A few have gone on with Colgan"

This guy named Heath interviewed there a while back (got hired). He mentioned the guy who interviewed him (last name was Colgan, I believe) told him they like guys from Gulfstream. How do you fight that?

I don't get it... are you saying Colgan Airlines does like to hire guys from Gulfstream?

"Their safety record is exemplary"

PCL 3701.

No. That's really unfair of you. Blame PNCL training for that. Why couldn't they get those engines relit? Core lock? Or, dive speed not fast enough? Needless to say, I'd say there were training defeciencies on PNCL's behalf.

That's like blaming Business Express's training for the AA A300 crash, since the F/O's airline before it was BEX. You need to look at AA training, if anything.

We're talking about Gulfstream by itself here, and their record is perfect.

I don't disagree but it's a sad, sad, thing that people go that route. You could say the same thing about being a scab, don't you think? Gets you ahead of a lot of people on the list. Anything wrong with that?

But they're not scabbing. It's funny how often that word gets thrown out.

Scabbing gets you ahead of people on the list, who are striking for better cause of their own airline. GIA pilots aren't getting 'ahead' of anyone on the list. They still have to interview at any airline they go to, just like any other pilot.

"ignore for a second that the academy "brings down the profession, hurts pilot careers, etc."

Really can't do that. That's the whole point....

"I think you'd have to agree that their training is top notch... the ground school, flight training, and even once you fly the line. This I've gathered from ex-students"

I know two Pinnacle Capts who don't paint such a bright picture. Your results may vary, I guess. Some streamers will be okay. That's not the point. Point is they are paying for a job. That's not, and never will be (I hope) an accepted practice in this biz. You could say Colgan and Pinnacle accept it but line pilots should never cut these guys any slack for what they did.

GIA and their PFT scheme is nothing compared to what ELSE is happening in this aviation industry. Wages are going down the crap hole. An alternate ego airline to avoid scope/contract issues, GoJets has been formed, and yet no one here has fought against it.

A majority of the posts here are anti-PFT, but no one bothers to mention GoJets alter ego. No one bothers to mention how every regional airline is undercutting one another. There are bigger fish to be worried about.

"And, also consider that Gulfstream has always 'hired' their F/Os through the academy. In another words, those right seats were never open to anyone else. A CFI couldn't come into the right seat and fly the Beech 1900 unless he/she went through GIA. So, it's not like students who pay the $30k are "taking" a job from a qualified pilot.... that job was never "open" to anyone BUT the Gulfstream Academy student"

Oh come on. And we were having such a nice, un-FSA forum like, respectable discussion. That's the biggest bunch of BS I've ever heard of. Semantics. Gulfstream gets around hiring F/O's by renting out the seat for a period of time. It's sick. You can play around with the wording of it to make it look pretty but it boils down to the same thing. PFJ. Just another nail in the coffin of lowering the bar in this industry.

Well, I was simply pointing out that a part of the defense that anti-PFTs use is that PFT takes away a job from a qualified pilot. I was merely pointing out that it wasn't the case here, for reasons described above in the quoted portion.



"I've checked my past postings regarding Gulfstream, and I see that my posts were extremely negative regarding Gulfstream."

Where the hell have you been? It's not just me saying this stuff. Do a search at APC or flightinfo.

"Ignoring the PFT aspect, Gulfstream would be top notch."

Nobody should ignore PFJ. Ever.....

Well, I guess so. But looking at the aspects of GIA, like their training, from the ex-students I've talked to, they say is excellent.

And another thing, once your 250 hours are up, you're not just "thrown on the street."

You may get a permanent hire offer, but if you don't, they will help you in placing with another regional airline. PNCL being the biggest one. You're not left to rot out and dry. I have yet to speak with an ex-GIA pilot who had no where to go after their 250 hours.

[DE727UPS]

"I don't get it... are you saying Colgan Airlines does like to hire guys from Gulfstream?"

Yeah. I forget the exact quote but he said to Heath he thought the Gulfstream program was a great way to enter the industry. I beg to differ.

"No. That's really unfair of you."

They went waaaay over the line. Read the transcript. They both were at Gulfstream at one time. I'm not "blaming" Gulfstream, I'm blaming the pilots, but if Gulfstream has such a great CRM program, how could this happen?

"GIA and their PFT scheme is nothing compared to what ELSE is happening in this aviation industry. Wages are going down the crap hole. An alternate ego airline to avoid scope/contract issues, GoJets has been formed, and yet no one here has fought against it."

So, that's reason to embrace PFJ schemes. Not following your logic.

"A majority of the posts here are anti-PFT, but no one bothers to mention GoJets alter ego."

So, mention it. Who's going to Gojets as new hires? Where are they coming from?

"I was simply pointing out that a part of the defense that anti-PFTs use is that PFT takes away a job from a qualified pilot"

If it wasn't for their scheme, they would have to hire a qualified pilot. It would be an entry level job like anywhere else. No?

[Holding Short]

Originally Posted by DE727UPS

"Then I found jetcareers and it put an end to that"

No matter what we say here, a person needs to check out a school on their own before they make a decision (except for Gulfstream). There's is too much money at stake not to.

Whether you decided to go to DCA or not, it sounds like you did your homework and put forth some effort. Didn't just fall for the marketing or believe the recruiter.

Where did you end up?

I went the FBO route for the private,instrument and just getting ready for the comm (ASEL) checkride.

I'm thinking about ATP for the ME add on and their CFI course (CFI,II,MEI) or American Flyers CFI Academy. I don't know yet.... still doing research...thanks to Doug for this wonderful resource (web site).

Also, I apologize for thread hijack....congratulations NYer914



HS

[NYer914]

Thanks HS...no worries about the thread jacking. Not to get involved with the whole PFJ thing (even though I don't like places like GIA) I saw somebody post "Gulfstream International Airlines, the only 121 carrier operating Beech 1900's that carry 20 paying paying passengers" - Though you guys might appreciate that.

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Originally Posted by DE727UPS

"I don't get it... are you saying Colgan Airlines does like to hire guys from Gulfstream?"

Yeah. I forget the exact quote but he said to Heath he thought the Gulfstream program was a great way to enter the industry. I beg to differ.

Okay, so Colgan is another among the regionals that take GIA pilots.

"No. That's really unfair of you."

They went waaaay over the line. Read the transcript. They both were at Gulfstream at one time. I'm not "blaming" Gulfstream, I'm blaming the pilots, but if Gulfstream has such a great CRM program, how could this happen?

They were over the line. The captain was at TSA and then at GIA as a direct entry captain. F/O was a GIA graduate. Why blame gulfstream CRM? I think the blame should be on PNCL's CRM. You're ignoring the fact it was an accident at PNCL airlines, not Gulfstream, and while the pilots used to be Gulfstream airlines pilots, their training on the CRJ was all with PNCL. All CRJ CRM training was with PNCL. I say training wise, I put the blame on PNCL.

"GIA and their PFT scheme is nothing compared to what ELSE is happening in this aviation industry. Wages are going down the crap hole. An alternate ego airline to avoid scope/contract issues, GoJets has been formed, and yet no one here has fought against it."

So, that's reason to embrace PFJ schemes. Not following your logic.

I'm not saying embrace PFT. I'm saying it's just a small portion of the 'wrong' that is happening to our industry. GoJets will probably be the first of who knows how many alter egos. Regionals will continue undercutting others. Yet, search how many threads you find on GoJets, regionals undercutting, etc, and then compare THAT number to how many threads there are on Gulfstream (or PFT). PFT is beaten to death all over this board, while we turn a blind eye to other (and arguably bigger) problems with the aviation industry, like aforementined GoJets.

"A majority of the posts here are anti-PFT, but no one bothers to mention GoJets alter ego."

So, mention it. Who's going to Gojets as new hires? Where are they coming from?

Great questions! Someone tell me who's going to Gojets, where they're coming from, etc. Why can't we have threads that explain that alter egos like Gojets are bad for the industry?

If it wasn't for their scheme, they would have to hire a qualified pilot. It would be an entry level job like anywhere else. No?

Yeah, true. But they've pretty much always have had that scheme, and it seems to work for them, otherwise, they wouldn't be doing it.

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Originally Posted by NYer914

Thanks HS...no worries about the thread jacking. Not to get involved with the whole PFJ thing (even though I don't like places like GIA) I saw somebody post "Gulfstream International Airlines, the only 121 carrier operating Beech 1900's that carry 20 paying paying passengers" - Though you guys might appreciate that.

Yes, true, but he's only the 20th paying passenger for the first 250 hours. Then, he's likely to get hired as a permanent hire F/O, therefore making him no longer a paying passenger.

About a year later, when he has 1500TT, fresh ATP, he'll be able to upgrade to captain due to other captains leaving to majors.

He'll stay one year as a captain, get 2500TT and 500+ hours PIC Part 121 turbine, and get on with Airtran far before any of us ever do.


That's the sad reality.

I have yet to meet a gulfstream pilot who's career was actually "slowed" by going to Gulfstream. Most have gone there, and if given permanent hire, they stay until upgrade to the B1900, and get 121 PIC turbine time. Then, they bail out to a major. Those who don't get permanent hire offer as a 1900 F/O they end up at places like PNCL, Colgan, etc. And that's at 500 hours TT (250 time they had coming in, and at leat 250 hours on the B1900).

[DE727UPS]

"I have yet to meet a gulfstream pilot who's career was actually "slowed" by going to Gulfstream."

Where are you meeting all these Gulfstream pilots? Do they hang out at University of Michigan and fly 152's? Not that there is anything wrong with that...

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Originally Posted by DE727UPS

"I have yet to meet a gulfstream pilot who's career was actually "slowed" by going to Gulfstream."

Where are you meeting all these Gulfstream pilots? Do they hang out at University of Michigan and fly 152's? Not that there is anything wrong with that...

LOL !!!


No.

All I've met on flightinfo forums, and have talked to them via PM. If you post in general about Gulfstream, it always spirals out of control, with insults flying everywhere.

By sending a PM, it keeps things private, and I get a lot more info that way.

There are quite a few users there who are ex-Gulfstreams, and one even a current Gulfstreamer. Please don't ask for their user names

[DE727UPS]

There are two here. Both say it was a bad choice and wouldn't do it again if they had to do it over...

[pilotkppsg]

"PFJ," The People's Front of Judea? or is it the Judean People's Front (JPF) or the Popular People's Judean Front (PPJF). Sorry, just watched some Monty Python and couldn't resist.

[Alchemy]

There is a stigma being given to Gulfstream PFT'ers. Maybe it hasn't permeated the industry completely yet, but the current generation of young pilots knows about the little scheme and resents it.

Gulfstream is a bad, bad way to try and start an airline career. Cherokee Cruiser: Why are you trying to marginalize the problem of Pay-for-jobs by bringing every other problem with the industry into the discussion? Who are you to say that Gulfstream is any more or less a problem than the other things you mention? I think gulfstream is a huge problem, especially now that they're getting EMB-120's. I wouldn't be surprised if they get their grubby little hands on an RJ eventually......then look out....we'll all be underbid because they can get their FO's to pay to fly an RJ!

As far as GoJets....the majority of their pilots come from TSA itself from what I understand.

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Originally Posted by Alchemy

Gulfstream is a bad, bad way to try and start an airline career. Cherokee Cruiser: Why are you trying to marginalize the problem of Pay-for-jobs by bringing every other problem with the industry into the discussion?

I'm trying to bring to light all the problems that are currently wrong, on top of Gulfstream's PFT scheme. Just because we discuss GoJets, regionals undercutting, does not mean we should compeletely ignore GIA/PFT. I say throw them in the same bag for discussion, but be sure that they're included when discussing what's wrong with the industry.

Who are you to say that Gulfstream is any more or less a problem than the other things you mention?

That's just an opinion. I can't weight it and say that GIA is worse than GoJets alter ego dilemma or regionals undercutting each other dilemma. What I'm saying is that all three of those *are* problems. How serious each one is... well that's up to the person, I suppose.

I think gulfstream is a huge problem, especially now that they're getting EMB-120's. I wouldn't be surprised if they get their grubby little hands on an RJ eventually......then look out....we'll all be underbid because they can get their FO's to pay to fly an RJ!

As a Gulfstream student, your 250 hours will be on the Beech 1900.

From what I understand, during those 250 hours, the pilot's name is not on the master seniority list. IF you're given permanent hire offer upon completion, then you are given a seniority number, and can get what you bid for / what you can hold.

So, Gulfstream only has permanent hire (seniority number holding) F/Os in their E120s.

Let me check the Gulfstream contract, and their language regarding bigger airplanes than 19 seaters. So far, I believe only people on the seniority lists can fly anything with more than 19 seats. I'll check into it.

I may be wrong, so I'll try and check.

[Mr_Creepy]

Originally Posted by pilotkppsg

"PFJ," The People's Front of Judea? or is it the Judean People's Front (JPF) or the Popular People's Judean Front (PPJF). Sorry, just watched some Monty Python and couldn't resist.

"Judaen People's Front, Pah! We're the People's Front of Judea and don't forget it! Well except for him .... Splitter!"

[WestIndian425]

Congratulations on your new job with XJT, NYer914 (hmmm....NY, area code 914 = upstate NY). I hope to be joining you there in a few months. I didn't get the ATP job, but I like where I am now in Atwater, Ca with Sierra, so I'll be building my time here and I'd probably not do the RJ course (as it's far more expensive when you're not an ATP instructor).

I'll keep reading the interview experiences so that I'd be ready. I'm currently studying to take the ATP written in about a month or so (it's a little harder than I thought), which would hopefully help me come interview time.

Neil

[Wannabe2]

Just got hired yesterday!!!! Nothing new to add to the gouge. Just be yourself and it's a snap. Great folks that did the interviewing there. Can't wait to get started in groundschool on April 24th.

[WestIndian425]

Originally Posted by Wannabe2

Just got hired yesterday!!!! Nothing new to add to the gouge. Just be yourself and it's a snap. Great folks that did the interviewing there. Can't wait to get started in groundschool on April 24th.

Congratualtions are in order for you too, sir! What were your hours?

Neil

[Wannabe2]

Thanks! Hours were 1000TT and 300 Multi. Some with more, most with less. One guy that got hired had 550TT and 150 Multi.