American Flyers in DuPage

[niupilot2001]

Hi everyone,


I recently went for my first flight instructor interview at American Flyers at DuPage airport in West Chicago. This is a bit of what happened at the interview. I got there, logbooks in hand and ready for a real grilling. I had expected a written exam and a pretty extensive interview process. That's not exactly how things went.

I got there and talked with the guy that does hiring there. He briefly told me about the company. He told me that they don't believe in students soloing much at all. Their sylabus is setup with 40 hours of dual for private pilots, and 5 hours of solo. Their belief is that students are only hurting themselves by flying the aircraft solo, creating bad habits. He also said that they can't get a private pilot done in under $12,000 of flight training. I couldn't disagree more, but it gets better!

He asked me if I had any questions for him, and I told him I had read a newspaper article that they had been forging pilots certificates. He said the article was wrong, as evidenced by them still being a 141 school and having self examining authority. Fair enough, that would have been ripped away pretty quickly. He did say something about logbooks not being endorsed correctly, which will happen. He made the statement that "There are flight schools that do things that are much less ethical than anything we do here" which seemed to have an implication of potential wrongdoing, but nothing "too serious."

As far as I'm concerned, I'm interviewing flight schools as much as they are interviewing me, so I want to make sure I end up at a quality company. Shortly after all this, he took me on a quick tour of the facilities and it came out that they charge $80 an hour for flight instruction. Not for the airplane, for the instructor. WHAT THE $*&@!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This just about ended the interview for me as I'll find another career before I'm involved in ripping off students like this.

The best part was when he started discussing the pay structure. He said they start instructors out part time for a least 3-6 months and the pay is $8-10 an hour.

HUH!?!?!?!?!?!

You're telling me that you want me to have a four year degree, which has cost me over $50,000, and THEN you want me to have my commercial pilots license and all my flight instructor ratings, which cost me nearly $40,000, and they want to pay me $8 an hour!?!?! I about ran out of the building when I heard this.

Long story short, STAY AWAY FROM THIS PLACE. Whether you are a student looking for a place to do your training, or you're an instructor looking to work these guys are a ripoff!

[GaTechKid]

That's crazy. I did an MEI for one of their instructors and he said the full-timers are salaried making between $30-40K per year. Did you do your training over at DKB?

[Kristie]

so they make $70/hr for a flight instructor..and students are paying this? what happened to "pay your employees" if your going to charge astronomical fees like that??

that's ridiculous!!

[FlyWhiteSox]

All kinds of shady stuff going on at KDPA, I was turned off when I was looking for schools over there. Have you considered looking at A&M Aviation out of 1C5 in Bolingbrook? It's a great school that actually treats their students well and has great equipment with good prices. I'm not sure if they're hiring though.
http://www.aandmaviation.com/

[Doug Taylor]

Do they pay ground instructors for teaching ground school?

[FlyWhiteSox]

Originally Posted by Doug Taylor

Do they pay ground instructors for teaching ground school?

Don't know if this question was directed to me in regards to A&M, but yes, they do pay instructors for ground.

[niupilot2001]

To answer the questions...

-I didn't do my training here, I did it all back home
-I've got interviews setup with two other Chicago area flight schools, though I'll withold which schools those are until the interviews are done
-They do pay for ground instruction

[avi8tor]

DPA has some pretty good flying opportunities there. They have quite a few flying clubs and a few flight schools there. At DPA the only places that I would stay away from is American Flyers, and Illinois Aviation. Have you tried places like MDW,JOT, Clow,ARR?

[Doug Taylor]

Originally Posted by FlyWhiteSox

Don't know if this question was directed to me in regards to A&M, but yes, they do pay instructors for ground.

No, but thanks for the answer tho!

Back in 1994, I interviewed at AF in SJC and they wanted me to work gratis teaching ground school. Then they called three years later when a day after I got my Be-1900 type rating and upgraded to captain (Thanks B767Driver, my checkride pilot!) and offered me a CFI position.

Strange!

[cessna_cptn]

I went to American Flyers in DPA to finish up my private a few years back. They advertised a finish up program that was just what I needed. After a sit down meeting to make a custome course outline for me, it was decided that $800.00 was the minimum it would cost me. Mind you at this point, I was current, and had all my x-countrys done, as well as total hours met in all the areas.

I was excited. Had a hotel room for a 4 day weekend(I lived in chicago at the time), so I would not waste time commuting in the wonderful summer construction. Oh yeah, I was making a point. Anyway, the weather on day one was marginal, but pattern was surely an option. The instructor said that time would be better spent doing a ground review. Day two had decent weather, but was a little on the windy side. Again, I had flown in worse, but the instructor said that the day would be better utilized doing recoveries from unusual attitudes in the fancy sim. Now, I could see spending a few hours on it if I had been al ham handed, but I nailed them on the first go. After two hours of this, I remembered thinking that I I was working on my instrument rating. Now mind you that I am now done with day two, and had yet to touch an airplane. Just some ground and a few sim hours. Should still have plenty of that $800.00 left. Oh yeah, I had to give them a check to cover the minimum amount prior to the start of the training.

Day three came with a beautiful clear sky. After two days of BS I was finaly flying one of those American Flyer cessnas with the fancy eagle painted on it. DPA has many runways and a control tower. For some reason, the instructor had me fly twenty minutes to a non towered airport to do pattern. No other maneuvers were done enroute. We landed back at DPA after two hours of flight time. I had done pattern. The instructor thought that this would be a good time to do more ground training. He called it a day and a day of good flying was wasted. I had one day left. If we flew all day, we might be able to hit the mark.

When I reported in that day the receptionist told me I needed to deposite more money because my deposite was all used up. After I became aware that one flight cost me $800.00 I walked into the guys office that sold me this program, and pleaded my case. "Remember that that amount was the minimum It was going to cost." was the response I received. I felt like a rape victim. This post stirred up all sorts of bad memories for me. Avoid American Flyers like the plague. It seems as if they are still selling the same product.

[FlyChicaga]

Screw that place. All I hear is horror stories from friends who have been there. Stay far, far away. If you are out in Chicago and I catch you going there, I'll beat you down. Then I'll treat ya to a beer.

[Mellotron]

Before I read this - or long before I even found this forum I had just started my quest for a place to start here in the DFW area and of all the websites, American Flyers seemed to bring up the most questions for me. The overall feel from their website from a newbie from me was very impersonal. I hate any business where they have that excutive welcoming you while sitting in the 1970's brown leather chair. All I could hear in the back of my mind while reading that was, "Hurry up and pay your dues so I can hang out at Ruth Chris to fill my belly with another steak on your behalf."
"hey guys, do you think if we stick an eagle on our stationary it may pass as the real deal?"
"hey, you left with my pen, we be got expences here too you know."

Sorry, that's just what I felt by the ads..

[B767Driver]

Originally Posted by Doug Taylor

No, but thanks for the answer tho!

Back in 1994, I interviewed at AF in SJC and they wanted me to work gratis teaching ground school. Then they called three years later when a day after I got my Be-1900 type rating and upgraded to captain (Thanks B767Driver, my checkride pilot!) and offered me a CFI position.

Strange!

No thank you for being a well prepared captain upgrade candidate. That's what I loved about being an airline instructor...all applicants are professional, motivated and prepared. I just loved watching guys fly the tar out of those checkride maneuvers.

[bwade210]

For what it's worth, I attended Illinois Aviation Academy (KDPA) and really enjoyed my time there. My flight instructor was very good, and I really got the feeling that the owner cared about his students.

[jtrain609]

I had an interview there, real great people at IAA. The owner is a great guy that doesn't want to hose down his students at all.

[FlyWhiteSox]

Originally Posted by John Herreshoff

I had an interview there, real great people at IAA. The owner is a great guy that doesn't want to hose down his students at all.

One hell of a salesman too.

[bwade210]

Originally Posted by John Herreshoff

I had an interview there, real great people at IAA. The owner is a great guy that doesn't want to hose down his students at all.

His dad was a dick in my experience! But true....the owner was cool!

[jtrain609]

Oh man his Dad was super cool with me. We just sat around and shot the **** for like three hours instead of having an interview.

[bwade210]

Can't beat the hot dogs at Portillos...right down the road from KDPA!

[FlyWhiteSox]

Don't forget about the chocolate cake!

[flyguy]

Originally Posted by Kristie

so they make $70/hr for a flight instructor..and students are paying this? what happened to "pay your employees" if your going to charge astronomical fees like that??

that's ridiculous!!

Well that certainly explains why they are so against letting the students fly solo. It creates too many bad habits. Habbits like saving money. Wow!