Ameriflight

[kellwolf]

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that would be $31,500. You could buy one hell of a nice 152 or an older 172 for that and bore holes in the sky to your hearts content and then the time would be actually useful towards your future career

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Then turn around, sell it, and get most of your money back.


As far as what Aloft said, earlier. I agree 100%. I don't consider Ameriflight PFT. You're not taking a job from someone. I'm still a little uncertain on how you would log the time at all, though. You are not a required crew member, so it would be like logging 737 time from the jumpseat. And I just had my econ mid-term the other day, so I am "opportunity costed" out.

[Phatty]

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This is what I think about the Ameriflight program or any other type of similar program.

100 or 200 hours in an aircraft without meeting at least the part-135 IFR requirements does absolute squat. A person more or less spends lots of scratch to participate in a program that has zero chance for advancement and zero future.

After 100 or 200 hours, a low time pilot is back on the street with the impression that a couple hundred hours of SIC time is going to make up for the lack of total time which it does not

I fell into that trap myself after college when I had a short term job flying a King Air C90 for a company in Fresno, the company folded and I spent more time flashing around my turbine time and Embry-Riddle credentials thinking that corporate operators, regionals and other cargo outfits would trip over themselves to hand me a job.

That presumption costed me a year.

I think the time (and money) would better be spent working on total time and using every effort networking because networking, contacts, and matching experience with opportunity is what lands that hard fought job.

And I haven't even discussed the current situation in the job market.

There are thousands of pilots with loads of experience on the open market. Quite frankly 500 hours of metroliner time that wasn't earned as an actual employee of hte operator doesn't amount to a hill of beans where there's so many experienced 121 and 135-experienced pilots vying for the same job.

In a hot job market, a few hundred hours of purchased flight time might get you a few resumes up on the stack, but this is the wrong job market to try one of these schemes because you're honestly better off networking and building flight time the 'traditional' method.

Trust me, I've been a low time pilot with turbine time, a ERAU grad and even a member of a under-represented minority group and quite frankly, no one cared.

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It's 135 training but your point is well taken. The way I look at is I'm buying 500 hours of experience. My MBA was expensive, the interships payed nothing, I get to do it all over again! Here's the math: Seminol-$200/hr, Metroliner III-$45/hr. Should I continue building multi time in the Seminole?

[kellwolf]

No. You're gettin' ripped on the Seminole. I pay $160/hr for a Seneca, and that's wet. The club across the taxiway has Seminoles for $106 dry.

[aloft]

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I think the time (and money) would better be spent working on total time and using every effort networking because networking, contacts, and matching experience with opportunity is what lands that hard fought job.

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Um, that's EXACTLY what he's doing, Doug. And for less money per flight hour than I can rent a 25 year old Warrior for. Nevermind the fact that it goes in his logbook as multiengine time.

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There are thousands of pilots with loads of experience on the open market. Quite frankly 500 hours of metroliner time that wasn't earned as an actual employee of hte operator doesn't amount to a hill of beans where there's so many experienced 121 and 135-experienced pilots vying for the same job.

[/ QUOTE ]But it's not any less valuable than, say, all the turbine time in Citationkid's logbook....when it comes to total time, hours are hours.

[Phatty]

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You're a CFI: act like one.

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First of all, I am not a CFI. My comment did come off as childish, but I meant it that way because I think there are a 100 better things to do with your money.

I usually don't wish bad upon people (I truly don't on you), but I hope it isn't a good experience for you so you can tell others to stay away.

Why did you even post this here? It seems you have taken everyone's advice and let it go in one ear and out the other without hitting anything.

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It's amazing how helpful everyone has been on this website and I appreciate the time you've taken to help me out. I didn't realize asking about Ameriflight was going to make me enemy #1. Thanks again for your insight.

[Doug Taylor]

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It's 135 training but your point is well taken. The way I look at is I'm buying 500 hours of experience. My MBA was expensive, the interships payed nothing, I get to do it all over again! Here's the math: Seminol-$200/hr, Metroliner III-$45/hr. Should I continue building multi time in the Seminole?

[/ QUOTE ]

Neither.

Any average Joe can plunk down $25,000 to purchase right seat time, and as long as you pass a checkout, anyone with means can rent a seminole for 1000 hours.

The airlines aren't dumb, they're going to ask how you gained a majority of your flight time. If your answer is "I rented a plane and flew cross countries" or "I purchased a block of flight time and sat right seat" and the lobby is full of pilots with part-135 experience or CFI background, you're going to have a quiet cab ride back to the airport.

I can't find the reference, but I discussed this a couple of years ago when the job market was hot. In this job market, believe me, save your money.

Airlines don't want to be the first company to actually trust and hire you. I've heard that from Marlene Berman at Northwest, all the way over to my chief pilot at Skyway Airlines.

Before Skyway agreed to offer my friend Joe an interview, his first question was "Did Joe buy his time?" I said no, and the chief pilot said "Good" and called Joe for the interview.

And that was just a small airline with 15 Beech 1900's back in 1996.

I could only imagine the competition now.

[Doug Taylor]

Phatty, you're not enemy #1, we're just trying to deprogram you from that brochure they sent you!

[Phatty]

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Phatty, you're not enemy #1, we're just trying to deprogram you from that brochure they sent you!

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You just don't get it: it was 4 color, trifold and really pretty

[pilatus028]

Just thought I'd liven things up by saying......I love airplanes.

Clem

[RPM]

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Before Skyway agreed to offer my friend Joe an interview, his first question was "Did Joe buy his time?" I said no, and the chief pilot said "Good" and called Joe for the interview.


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Yeah, I've heard from quite a few people that bought F/O time is considered a black mark on your resume to many chief pilots.

Phatty- you have to remember that the future people interviewing you are pilots too, and most of them will probably feel the same way about PFT as we do here at JC - they probably worked very hard to get to where they are, and I would assume they look down on people who try to buy their way in, when they have the choice of hiring somone who worked their way up such as a CFI - I'm afraid your gonna lose out everytime.

It certainly wouldn't be somthing i'd want on my resume with things being as competitive as they are.

Just somthing to think about

[TheWife]

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If your answer is "I rented a plane and flew cross countries" or "I purchased a block of flight time and sat right seat" and the lobby is full of pilots with part-135 experience or CFI background, you're going to have a quiet cab ride back to the airport.


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Yeah, I've heard from quite a few people that bought F/O time is considered a black mark on your resume to many chief pilots.

Phatty- you have to remember that the future people interviewing you are pilots too, and most of them will probably feel the same way about PFT as we do here at JC - they probably worked very hard to get to where they are, and I would assume they look down on people who try to buy their way in, when they have the choice of hiring somone who worked their way up such as a CFI - I'm afraid your gonna lose out everytime.


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I shouldn't even get in the middle of this but I'm gonna. We have heard from SEVERAL people that when you have two options sitting in front of you, and both are equally nice decent people, the one with the ME time in the big plane is gonna be hired. We have heard this from SkyWest captains, as well as the people that are doing interviews for SkyWest. Now, I am not arguing whether or not PFT is good or bad or not or whatever. But it's just not entirely true to insinuate that you are not going to get hired if you PFT.

[Doug Taylor]

Does everyone think I'm just making this stuff up or something?

[TheWife]

No-and I am not trying to argue or anything. But why would some one else tell us the opposite is true? Are THEY making it up? My conclusion would be that it depends on who you end up with in the interview room and that it could easily go either way, so do what works best for you and your situation.

[montanapilot]

i dont know of any other industry where you pay someone for the priviledge to work for them. you dont pay mcdonalds for the priveledge of building "experience, hours, etc" flipping burgers.

go to a fortune 500 company and tell them you want to pay them to work for them. see what their response would be.

as llrupert put it at least you can tell the interviewer you were a glorified landing gear operator.

[Doug Taylor]

Probably depends on how you ask the question.

If you ask the question like "Two guys are interviewing for the same job and one's got time in a big turbine..." (assuming similar background, similiar "likeability" etc)

Or if you ask "There are two applicants, one's a CFI with experience in Cessnas and Barons, while the other one bought a block of right seat time from Eaglejet and has no previous aviation emplohyment experience"....

I can virtually guarantee you'll get a different answer.

Kind of like 'Mom, can I go outside' compared to "Mom, can I go outside and beat the bejezus out of my neighbor"

[RPM]

[ QUOTE ]
I shouldn't even get in the middle of this but I'm gonna. We have heard from SEVERAL people that when you have two options sitting in front of you, and both are equally nice decent people, the one with the ME time in the big plane is gonna be hired. We have heard this from SkyWest captains, as well as the people that are doing interviews for SkyWest. Now, I am not arguing whether or not PFT is good or bad or not or whatever. But it's just not entirely true to insinuate that you are not going to get hired if you PFT.
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I'm not saying it's not possible to get hired with PFT on your resume, I just think a lot of chief pilots probably look down on it, and I wouldn't want it on my resume.

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No-and I am not trying to argue or anything. But why would some one else tell us the opposite is true? Are THEY making it up? My conclusion would be that it depends on who you end up with in the interview room and that it could easily go either way, so do what works best for you and your situation.


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Your right Michelle it depends on who your interviewed by, but with the difficulty just to obtain an interview these days, I'd rather not have somthing like PFT on my resume, since the majority of pilots are against it.

[tonyw]

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I'd rather not have somthing like PFT on my resume, since the majority of pilots are against it.

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Exactly. When there is something that folks who do the hiring don't like, it's probably best to not do it.

[Doug Taylor]

Wanna try that one again, RPM? No comprende!

[aloft]

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Does everyone think I'm just making this stuff up or something?

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Oh hell, I'll bite: you're just making this stuff up, aren't ya!

Nah, I don't think you're making it up, but it is safe to say that the only rule in business is that there are no rules. For every instance of you saying it's bad, it seems we can show you someone it's worked for. From internships to MAPD/PACE to PFE operations like Alpine/AmeriFlight/Gulfstream, there are a million ways to cut corners in this biz.

Which leaves us at the bottom line: are these programs well-respected? Perhaps not. Do they work? The evidence would indicate so.

[RPM]

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Wanna try that one again, RPM? No comprende!

[/ QUOTE ]

[Sprint100]

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I am not trying to argue or anything. But why would some one else tell us the opposite is true?

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I've always wondered the same thing and heard the same about ME time. I still can't understand why people say the more ME time the better, then trash the easiest way for some people to get that time. It is just like you have to struggle for extended periods of time to get hired.
I just said hey forget it. Trying to understand that was harder than learning calculus LOL.

[Doug Taylor]

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Wanna try that one again, RPM? No comprende!

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Oh, I see now, some of the 'quote' thingies got a little screwey, lemme fix it:

[Sprint100]

I am liking 'aloft' more and more everyday, becuase you are a "bottom line" "hey let's cut the crap" type of fellow.

[aloft]

Man, I've come a long way since the days of Eagle's "one star" campaign!

Like I told Tenney, to know me is to love me!

[TheWife]

[ QUOTE ]
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I'd rather not have somthing like PFT on my resume, since the majority of pilots are against it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly. When there is something that folks who do the hiring don't like, it's probably best to not do it.

[/ QUOTE ] Buuuuut....there are some people who are doing the hiring that don't like to see all your time be loops around the local FBO. Sooooo....how do you choose? That's why I am saying I think in everything in life-you do what works best for YOU, understand that it may not be the best for OTHERS, and own your choice. And smile a lot, and be nice to everyone.