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January 7th, 2004, 18:47
| #26 |
| Moderator  Join Date: May 2003 Location: GRR
Posts: 8,630
|  Re: Ameriflight
[ QUOTE ] Last I knew, you two had the flu and dropped off the face of the earth! [/ QUOTE ] Uh, oh. Busted!  |
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January 7th, 2004, 19:06
| #28 |
| Old Skool  Join Date: May 2003 Location: Portland, Orygun
Posts: 1,641
| Re: Ameriflight
[ QUOTE ] Thanks. I'm new to the site and obviously new to aviation. I'm going to follow your advice: I'll probably be posting in the future with my tail between my legs and a new user name. [/ QUOTE ] no need to be embaressed or change your username. We all are learning new things on here every day. |
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January 7th, 2004, 19:08
| #30 |
| Junior Member  Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Evergreen, CO
Posts: 37
| Re: Ameriflight
It was fun posting for the first time and I learned alot. That said, I plan on spending more time reading and less posting. Don't worry about me graduating from "new user" any time soon!
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January 7th, 2004, 19:10
| #31 |
| Banned Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,272
| Re: Ameriflight
everyone Pays for training one way or the other. be it CFIing for 8$ an hour for a job that is worth 30$+ or butying your own airplane and flying circles in the sky, or even being paid crap wages at a regional. everyone pays. |
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January 7th, 2004, 19:11
| #32 |
| Moderator Join Date: May 2003 Location: GRR
Posts: 8,630
| Re: Ameriflight
[ QUOTE ] Seriously man, if everyone knew all the answers, there'd be no users on the website! Heck, there wouldn't even BE a website!  [/ QUOTE ] Luckily there's only afew users that already know all the answers.  |
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January 7th, 2004, 19:16
| #33 |
| Moderator Join Date: May 2003 Location: GRR
Posts: 8,630
| Re: Ameriflight
Hey Look! Phatty / Eagle is back! |
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January 7th, 2004, 19:49
| #34 |
| Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Evergreen, CO
Posts: 37
| Re: Ameriflight
[ QUOTE ] Where the heck has she been, BTW? Last I knew, you two had the flu and dropped off the face of the earth! [/ QUOTE ] Hi! Mrs. Phatty here (AnotherWife). I'm posting under Phatty's login while he's in the bathroom. (he he )The Phatty family profoundly apologizes for the ruffled feathers -- poor guy didn't realize he was walking straight into the propeller!  As Phatty said, end of year at the firm was killer so I've not had much JC time. I've missed you all! By the looks of the number of Phatty's posts this afternoon, looks like we're officially a two JC-addict family now. |
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January 7th, 2004, 20:12
| #36 |
| Senior Member  Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 1,101
| Re: Ameriflight
Everybody complains about flight instructing, but it is still the best, and most educational, way of building EXPERIENCE (not just time) that I know. Yeah, for most people it isn't your first choice, but it is necessary. I did it, Doug did it, Falcon Capt did it, and countless others on this board have done it to get where they are, or are doing it now in hopes of moving further up the ladder. I know a lot of people find the thought of 1000 hours in a 172 "boring" (so do I, in a way), but it is necessary to build a solid foundation for the next steps in your career. Shortcutting that with PFT is a no-no, that ultimately does you, and the industry, a dis-service. Don't mean to jump on you, just to give food for thought to you, Phatty, and any others thinking of going this route. Good luck in your decisions ... FL270 P.S.: First post of the year for me, good to be back! |
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January 7th, 2004, 20:28
| #37 |
| Old Skool  Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Santa Clarita, CA
Posts: 6,152
  | Re: Ameriflight
[ QUOTE ] I guess I struck a chord with your membership that I didn't mean to. I had no clue this isn't how you're supposed to gain experience. [/ QUOTE ] LOL. Same thing over here. I am one who brought up the same argument. I can't stand the idea of building hours the usual way (that equates to a waste of time to me), but seeing how it degrades the quality of the profession I wouldn't do PFT myself. One option to not disturb others with a topic that has been brought up forever, you can send me a private message and I'd gladly respond back to you. |
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January 7th, 2004, 20:50
| #38 |
| Old Skool Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: ??
Posts: 4,600
| Re: Ameriflight
[ QUOTE ] I can't stand the idea of building hours the usual way (that equates to a waste of time to me), [/ QUOTE ] [Donning Flame Thrower] Yup, its a huge waste of time. Why don't you get more than your PPL...better yet, actually GET your CFI and try instructing. Then maybe, just maybe, you'll be qualified to make the assumption that it is a waste of time. Though I would dare bet that if/when you ever get to that point, you'll have a different take on it. Until then, put a cork in it and quit degrading a real, valuable, and fun way to build experience that you actually get PAID for.   [\putting Flame Thrower 5000 away for the night] |
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January 7th, 2004, 20:52
| #39 |
| Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Evergreen, CO
Posts: 37
| Re: Ameriflight
[ QUOTE ] Everybody complains about flight instructing, but it is still the best, and most educational, way of building EXPERIENCE (not just time) that I know. Yeah, for most people it isn't your first choice, but it is necessary. I did it, Doug did it, Falcon Capt did it, and countless others on this board have done it to get where they are, or are doing it now in hopes of moving further up the ladder. I know a lot of people find the thought of 1000 hours in a 172 "boring" (so do I, in a way), but it is necessary to build a solid foundation for the next steps in your career. Shortcutting that with PFT is a no-no, that ultimately does you, and the industry, a dis-service. Don't mean to jump on you, just to give food for thought to you, Phatty, and any others thinking of going this route. Good luck in your decisions ... FL270 P.S.: First post of the year for me, good to be back! [/ QUOTE ] Thanks for the advice. I want to choose a training path that will both make me a good pilot and provide me with the skills employers are looking for. I have a lot of respect for the flight instructors that I've had and I'm sure they would do better on any oral exam than I would. I'm also sure the professors I had in college understand engineering and finance better than I do. But, how many professors are hired into the real world? Not many because they don't have applicable real world experience. I'm not trying to disagree with anyone on this web site: I just really want to understand the anti-PFT position better. Every flight instructor I've had (both at FlightSafety and my local FBO) has told me they would choose PFT if they had it to do all over and if they could afford it. My FBO flight instructor is the best pilot I've ever flown with, but it took him 5 years of instructing before he got a job. (He's finally been hired by Skywest.) Why have my PFT friends been hired with lower hours than the flight instructors I know? One answer I got from someone at Northwest is the PFT guys have been through the training and rarely fail the expensive airline training: flight instructors (only because they lack applicable experience) drop out at a 25% rate- which translates to a $12,000/student cost to the airline. Someone tell me what the alternatives are for a guy whose 40, with a CMEI, 300 total hours, 110 multi. I'm really open to suggestions. Thanks. |
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January 7th, 2004, 21:37
| #40 |
| Old Skool Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Santa Clarita, CA
Posts: 6,152
| Re: Ameriflight
[ QUOTE ] Yup, its a huge waste of time. Why don't you get more than your PPL...better yet, actually GET your CFI and try instructing. Then maybe, just maybe, you'll be qualified to make the assumption that it is a waste of time. Though I would dare bet that if/when you ever get to that point, you'll have a different take on it. Until then, put a cork in it and quit degrading a real, valuable, and fun way to build experience [/ QUOTE ] Don't be so sensitive, Twan!!!!!!!! LOL FYI........I could be at that point if I'd chosen to, but my choice is setting a very nice lifestyle for me and my family. You seem kind of peeved at my comment, but so be it. Read my 1st quote in the sigs.............. |
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January 7th, 2004, 21:52
| #41 |
| Old Skool  Join Date: May 2002 Location: Maryland
Posts: 15,624
 | Re: Ameriflight
I'm not there yet, but I concur with Russ. The folks I know who are flying for a living all did it. And one thing they said they learned which is critical for their jobs is how to work with a bunch of different personalities.
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January 7th, 2004, 22:50
| #42 |
| Old Skool  Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Spokane, WA
Posts: 6,546
| Re: Ameriflight
Ameriflight isn't PFT cause you don't buy a job....it's a time building scheme. They might favor a guy who has paid thousands to occupy their right seat in the interview process but you'd still have to have the skills and get through the interview if you wanted to work there. You aren't buying a job like Gulfstream. Phatty...time spent working your way up the ladder is time spent gaining valuable experience along the way. I don't consider 172 time or instructing time to be a waste....no matter your age. PFT and time building schemes have a bad rap with many professional pilots because most work their way up the hard way rather than paying for it. Networking is a big part of this industry...it's more who you know than what you know. Always try to leave a good impression when dealing with other pilots...they might be interviewing you someday. |
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January 7th, 2004, 23:19
| #43 |
| Agent Smith  | Re: Ameriflight
So true. The guy who tried to fire me at Skyway once was the same guy handing me a resume when I became a Delta pilot. I should have kept it for notoriety instead of placing it in the circular file. |
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January 8th, 2004, 13:33
| #44 |
| Senior Member  Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: was Ophir, CO, now in SLC!
Posts: 1,481
| Re: Ameriflight
I have ridden the fence on the PFT thing. I am lucky enough to have some money to spend on it from a past life. And, just like Phatty, I am older and consider the best use of time. However, I have decided not go that route but it is not for the more fundamental reasons. I have to say I have become a JC convert. I have spent so much time on this site since I began showing an interest in aviation. Now, I have gone on to become a CFI/CFII soon to MEI. At this point my goals seem to be really similar to everyone else's. My approach is, the more I spend time working hard in aviation, through the traditional routes provided to everyone, the better I will be. My real goal is to be the best pilot I can possibly be (I don't want the NTSB to ever know I exist )So now I am beginning a fulltime job as a CFI and going to school concurrently. What I have learned thus far is that I have so much to learn. ( The best part of that is that I have also learned so much. I love to learn and combining that with the love of not being on the ground is why I chose aviation.) My understanding is that the best way to learn that is simply by taking my time and being and instructor. One of my past business partners told me once that you never learn anything until you are the presenter of that subject; he was a wise man. I am now the CFI and I truly feel that my eyes have only just been opened. I am really happy I didn't choose the PFT route; I wouldn’t be the pilot I am today or more importantly appreciate how much there is to know. My feeling is that the traditional route exists purely for the benefit of each pilot. Disregarding the “PFT steal jobs” subject I simply think CFIing makes you the best pilot. Phatty, I would urge you to reconsider and think more about what your goals are with aviation. If you want to make good money and have time off, we both know that this is the wrong industry. Talk to you soon. |
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January 8th, 2004, 14:25
| #45 |
| Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 556
| Re: Ameriflight
Gee, I couldn't have said it better myself Ophir!!! Way to go!!
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January 8th, 2004, 15:08
| #46 |
| Old Skool Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Spokane, WA
Posts: 6,546
| Ophir
With all due respect and for the sake of conversation and education...how does Gulfsteam style PFT NOT steal jobs and lower the bar of the piloting profession?
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January 8th, 2004, 17:31
| #47 |
| Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Evergreen, CO
Posts: 37
| Re: Ameriflight
[ QUOTE ] Phatty, If you truly dont know any better then youve come to the right place. Go to the Home page of this website, its not just forums, and click on "how i did it" and/or "PerspectiveS". All of these folks have given insight as to how they gained the flight time and experience to get were they have gotten. after youve read that, come back to teh forums and start another thread saying "How can I build Time without PFTing thread". Welcome Aboard! [/ QUOTE ] Great resource. Thank you. |
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January 8th, 2004, 17:35
| #48 |
| Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Evergreen, CO
Posts: 37
| Re: Ameriflight
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] (PFT) [/ QUOTE ] you might as well be flushing your money down the toilet. It cheapens the industry too. [/ QUOTE ] You've made my decision so much easier. I appreciate your "help". |
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January 8th, 2004, 17:41
| #49 |
| Junior Member  Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: On the Road
Posts: 177
| Re: Ameriflight
I fly out of Oakland, and Amflight is the next ramp. I would also say 50% are from sierra. My last two instructors are there and we talk. First, to be hired by a 135 after this expensive mistake you need the 135 mins. So if you buy 200 hours and only have 300 to start well you still need to build time in the 172. Plus you have no say in anything, you can even be left at the airport, the PIC does not have to let you stay at the company apartment or use the car. So save your money, suck it up and do steep turns until you die. Instructing is great, at least that is what I tell myself every morning.
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January 8th, 2004, 17:53
| #50 |
| Old Skool Join Date: May 2003 Location: Portland, Orygun
Posts: 1,641
| Re: Ameriflight
[ QUOTE ] Quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- (PFT) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- you might as well be flushing your money down the toilet. It cheapens the industry too. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You've made my decision so much easier. I appreciate your "help". [/quote my apologies phatty, i wasnt trying to be mean about it or anything i did come across as too harsh though. |
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