Gulfstream Academy

Shemsey · April 29th, 2003, 21:34

Hello guys I have heard much talk about Pan Am and Comair but what about Gulfstream? How are they because after university I'll have my comm multi IFR and they looked like a good place. 250hours in a 1900 can get you a job pretty much in any regional. Please let me know about your stories, opinion, and facts on this school.

flyallday · April 29th, 2003, 21:38

hahhahhahaaha

OOOOOOOOOhhhh boy, you dont know what you just might have started

Do a search on it, you will find all the info you will need. Your talking days worth of info on that school. Do a search on JC and flightinfo.com

ALL im going to say is PFT

flyallday · April 29th, 2003, 21:42

[ QUOTE ]
250hours in a 1900 can get you a job pretty much in any regional.

[/ QUOTE ]

dont believe the marking people at gulfstream, there all scabs

Shemsey · April 29th, 2003, 21:42

thats not too helpful........but thanks for the post, anyone else please reply thanks.

flyallday · April 29th, 2003, 21:44

just do a search, its very helpful to get the fastest answer to your question.

sbav8r · April 29th, 2003, 22:04

I'd pay to see that posted on Flightinfo.com. FLAME!!!

Doug Taylor · April 29th, 2003, 22:21

250 hours in a Beech 1900 is 250 hours in a Beech 1900.

In this market, having 250 hours in a turbine aircraft does not make you more competitive whatsoever -- unless the airline flies 1900's and is fervently seeking low time pilots.

Ophir · April 30th, 2003, 00:07

Here we go . . .

A320_DUDE · April 30th, 2003, 00:11

If you want to be a bottom feeder,go to MAPD then fly for Mesa. At least then YOU will be getting paid,not some Eastern Scab.

April 30th, 2003, 00:53

Shemsey

Run a search on the topic of PFT (pay for time) either here or over at flightinfo.com. You might be reading flame wars for 24 hrs straight as there are many colorful arguments out there on this topic, but at least it will give you an idea of what kind of operation Gulfstream runs and what kind of reputation the "school" has in the industry.

JoeBlow · April 30th, 2003, 01:59

The responses you are getting should be helpful. You should be seeing a big red flag waving above your head right now and wondering why there is so much negative feedback about this school. You asked a question and now you are getting the answer. There is nothing good to say about the school and what you would be purchasing there. Just as others have posted, look at previous posts about the school. No one gets respect for purchasing turbine time in the right seat when the aircraft is certified for two crewmembers. You are taking the job of a qualified pilot by paying to sit in the right seat. There are no shortcuts-just like any other industry, you must pay your dues.

DE727UPS · April 30th, 2003, 10:05

Shemsey

The problem with Gulfstream and their 250 hours of 1900 time is that you are paying them money to sit right seat in a 1900 being operated by a pax airline. This takes a paying job away from a pilot who, at any other company, would be getting paid (granted, not very much) to sit in that seat. Carry the Gulfstream mode of operation forward to Air Canada. What would stop Air Canada from saying to you "Shemsey, if you pay us $50,000 we will give you the minimum training necessary to fly right seat in an Airbus A320 and then let you fly that seat for 250 hours."

As professional pilots and wannabe professional pilots, it's important that we discourage the "lowering of the bar" that these sort of operations contribute to. I see Gulfstream as the worst offender and the easiest to pick on. There are other outfits that run a similar scheme but do it in a less offensive way.

Where I draw my line on this issue is if you want to pay for time in a seat that isn't normally occupied, or isn't legally required to be occupied, it's fine with me. If an outfit can figure a way for you to legally log right seat time in a Beech 99 and you want to pay to sit there, fine by me, too. The value of this time is debatable, however, and it sticks out like or sore thumb in your resume. Those who share my anti-PFT views may be the ones interviewing you for a job someday.

Besides all of this, if you are Canadian (someone correct me if I'm wrong), you don't have the right to work as a pilot in the US and US ratings don't carry over to the Canadian system. Why would you want to train in the US?

Doug Taylor · April 30th, 2003, 10:58

Ditto what De727UPS said.

Shemsey · April 30th, 2003, 13:08

Yea I see what you're saying, I'm in the process of getting dual citizenship, you guys in America don't know how lucky you are. Here there is NO way of getting in any regional with 1200 and 100 multi like you guys, you've got to be at about double that with much more multi, I'm working in the field now and I have seen many pilots with lots TT and quite a bit of multi and can't even find a job on a charter operation. I would most likely work as a CFI through university and hopefully graduate at 22 with 1500 hours and get my ATP. Then hopefully with that time I'd be able to score a job with a regional in the USA, because jobs are soo limited in Canada it's scary to even be in this industry as there is a good chance you might not even find one.

MarineNav · April 30th, 2003, 13:12

Pilots are being laid off for purposes of providing PFT? Post links if you have them. However, if there are right seat openings and airlines choose alternative methods of filling those seats that are legal and meeting FAA regs, I don't see a problem.

A320_DUDE · April 30th, 2003, 13:23

MarineNav,

The main problem I have with GTA is that instead of the normal 1000TT/250ME needed to fly right seat of a 1900,you need what 250TT and 50K. That offends each and every pilot that has worked his/hers way up to getting a job at a regional. Going to GTA WILL hurt your chances at getting a major airline job someday.....see all us folks here are gonna be on those Captain's Decision Boards oneday and one things pilots have is a long memory

MarineNav · April 30th, 2003, 13:42

737 Dude,

Thanks for the input. I understand your point of view, but it's up to the airlines & PFT newbies to make those choices and face the consequences later. People who are deadset against this should petition the FAA, the airlines, the insurance companies, Congress, etc. It would be interesting to see a future class action lawsuit by a large group of highly experienced pilots who all share a PFT background and don't get hired because of that one fact!

Thanks again,

JR

JDMcFly · April 30th, 2003, 14:05

I don't think thats the point Marine..

Up to the PFT newbies to decide and suffer the consequences later? Maybe some of the people here want to help guide those people before they go there.

flycanuck · April 30th, 2003, 14:53

[ QUOTE ]

Besides all of this, if you are Canadian (someone correct me if I'm wrong), you don't have the right to work as a pilot in the US and US ratings don't carry over to the Canadian system. Why would you want to train in the US?

[/ QUOTE ]

From what I hear, all you need is to write an FAA exam, take a few checkrides and then obtain the right to work in the states to apply for a flying job.

What I don't know is if you can train at a mainstream flight school (ATP, comair, FSA, PanAm ect.) without U.S citizenship or a greencard. Can someone please fill me in.

-FlyCanuck

Wolverine · April 30th, 2003, 17:16

You can train in the US while being a citizen of another country, we have several foreign students at PanAm. But, you must be a citizen (or green card, maybe?) to fly in anything representative of an aircraft 12,500lb or greater, such as our CRJ FTD.

If you train in the US, you'll have FAA licenses which are only good for flying FAA registered aircraft. You'd have to convert your licenses to Canadian.

As far getting the right to work in the US, I know it's not easy. Best of luck to ya!

DE727UPS · April 30th, 2003, 22:54

No one is furloughed because of PFT but if the entire industry follows the lead of Gulfstream, then everyone will have the benefit of getting to pay 20K to sit right for a while. This is way bad for the profession. Is this the way you want to start your career Marinenav? Paying to be a pilot instead of being paid to be one?

Guys have to sacrifice enough to make it in this career...we don't need to start taking backward steps at the beginning of it.

Doug Taylor · April 30th, 2003, 23:01

Besides, they spammed my forums a few times and produced a couple of wonderful pilots that "trolled" my users last year.

Even if Gulfstream offered you 250 hours in an Airbus 320, I really don't think in light of the job market now that you're going to have any type of competitive advantage whatsoever.

Besides, save the additional money for your job war chest.

April 29th, 2003, 21:34	#1
Shemsey Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Ontario Canada Posts: 79	Gulfstream Academy Hello guys I have heard much talk about Pan Am and Comair but what about Gulfstream? How are they because after university I'll have my comm multi IFR and they looked like a good place. 250hours in a 1900 can get you a job pretty much in any regional. Please let me know about your stories, opinion, and facts on this school.

April 29th, 2003, 21:38	#2
flyallday Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: USA baby!!! Posts: 226	Re: Gulfstream Academy hahhahhahaaha OOOOOOOOOhhhh boy, you dont know what you just might have started Do a search on it, you will find all the info you will need. Your talking days worth of info on that school. Do a search on JC and flightinfo.com ALL im going to say is PFT

April 29th, 2003, 21:42	#3
flyallday Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: USA baby!!! Posts: 226	Re: Gulfstream Academy [ QUOTE ] 250hours in a 1900 can get you a job pretty much in any regional. [/ QUOTE ] dont believe the marking people at gulfstream, there all scabs

April 29th, 2003, 21:42	#4
Shemsey Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Ontario Canada Posts: 79	Re: Gulfstream Academy thats not too helpful........but thanks for the post, anyone else please reply thanks.

April 29th, 2003, 21:44	#5
flyallday Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: USA baby!!! Posts: 226	Re: Gulfstream Academy just do a search, its very helpful to get the fastest answer to your question.

April 29th, 2003, 22:04	#6
sbav8r Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Santa Barbara, CA Posts: 195	Re: Gulfstream Academy I'd pay to see that posted on Flightinfo.com. FLAME!!!

April 29th, 2003, 22:21	#7
Doug Taylor Agent Smith Join Date: Dec 1969 Location: KSDL Posts: 41,280 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Gulfstream Academy 250 hours in a Beech 1900 is 250 hours in a Beech 1900. In this market, having 250 hours in a turbine aircraft does not make you more competitive whatsoever -- unless the airline flies 1900's and is fervently seeking low time pilots.

April 30th, 2003, 00:07	#8
Ophir Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: was Ophir, CO, now in SLC! Posts: 1,481	Re: Gulfstream Academy Here we go . . .

April 30th, 2003, 00:11	#9
A320_DUDE Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Hartford,CT Posts: 203	Re: Gulfstream Academy If you want to be a bottom feeder,go to MAPD then fly for Mesa. At least then YOU will be getting paid,not some Eastern Scab.

April 30th, 2003, 00:53	#10
Lurker Posts: n/a	Re: Gulfstream Academy Shemsey Run a search on the topic of PFT (pay for time) either here or over at flightinfo.com. You might be reading flame wars for 24 hrs straight as there are many colorful arguments out there on this topic, but at least it will give you an idea of what kind of operation Gulfstream runs and what kind of reputation the "school" has in the industry.

April 30th, 2003, 01:59	#11
JoeBlow Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 168	Re: Gulfstream Academy The responses you are getting should be helpful. You should be seeing a big red flag waving above your head right now and wondering why there is so much negative feedback about this school. You asked a question and now you are getting the answer. There is nothing good to say about the school and what you would be purchasing there. Just as others have posted, look at previous posts about the school. No one gets respect for purchasing turbine time in the right seat when the aircraft is certified for two crewmembers. You are taking the job of a qualified pilot by paying to sit in the right seat. There are no shortcuts-just like any other industry, you must pay your dues.

April 30th, 2003, 10:05	#12
DE727UPS Old Skool Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Spokane, WA Posts: 6,550	Re: Gulfstream Academy Shemsey The problem with Gulfstream and their 250 hours of 1900 time is that you are paying them money to sit right seat in a 1900 being operated by a pax airline. This takes a paying job away from a pilot who, at any other company, would be getting paid (granted, not very much) to sit in that seat. Carry the Gulfstream mode of operation forward to Air Canada. What would stop Air Canada from saying to you "Shemsey, if you pay us $50,000 we will give you the minimum training necessary to fly right seat in an Airbus A320 and then let you fly that seat for 250 hours." As professional pilots and wannabe professional pilots, it's important that we discourage the "lowering of the bar" that these sort of operations contribute to. I see Gulfstream as the worst offender and the easiest to pick on. There are other outfits that run a similar scheme but do it in a less offensive way. Where I draw my line on this issue is if you want to pay for time in a seat that isn't normally occupied, or isn't legally required to be occupied, it's fine with me. If an outfit can figure a way for you to legally log right seat time in a Beech 99 and you want to pay to sit there, fine by me, too. The value of this time is debatable, however, and it sticks out like or sore thumb in your resume. Those who share my anti-PFT views may be the ones interviewing you for a job someday. Besides all of this, if you are Canadian (someone correct me if I'm wrong), you don't have the right to work as a pilot in the US and US ratings don't carry over to the Canadian system. Why would you want to train in the US?

April 30th, 2003, 10:58	#13
Doug Taylor Agent Smith Join Date: Dec 1969 Location: KSDL Posts: 41,280 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Gulfstream Academy Ditto what De727UPS said.

April 30th, 2003, 13:08	#14
Shemsey Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Ontario Canada Posts: 79	Re: Gulfstream Academy Yea I see what you're saying, I'm in the process of getting dual citizenship, you guys in America don't know how lucky you are. Here there is NO way of getting in any regional with 1200 and 100 multi like you guys, you've got to be at about double that with much more multi, I'm working in the field now and I have seen many pilots with lots TT and quite a bit of multi and can't even find a job on a charter operation. I would most likely work as a CFI through university and hopefully graduate at 22 with 1500 hours and get my ATP. Then hopefully with that time I'd be able to score a job with a regional in the USA, because jobs are soo limited in Canada it's scary to even be in this industry as there is a good chance you might not even find one.

April 30th, 2003, 13:12	#15
MarineNav Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Santa Clara, CA Posts: 301	Re: Gulfstream Academy Pilots are being laid off for purposes of providing PFT? Post links if you have them. However, if there are right seat openings and airlines choose alternative methods of filling those seats that are legal and meeting FAA regs, I don't see a problem.

April 30th, 2003, 13:23	#16
A320_DUDE Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Hartford,CT Posts: 203	Re: Gulfstream Academy MarineNav, The main problem I have with GTA is that instead of the normal 1000TT/250ME needed to fly right seat of a 1900,you need what 250TT and 50K. That offends each and every pilot that has worked his/hers way up to getting a job at a regional. Going to GTA WILL hurt your chances at getting a major airline job someday.....see all us folks here are gonna be on those Captain's Decision Boards oneday and one things pilots have is a long memory

April 30th, 2003, 13:42	#17
MarineNav Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Santa Clara, CA Posts: 301	Re: Gulfstream Academy 737 Dude, Thanks for the input. I understand your point of view, but it's up to the airlines & PFT newbies to make those choices and face the consequences later. People who are deadset against this should petition the FAA, the airlines, the insurance companies, Congress, etc. It would be interesting to see a future class action lawsuit by a large group of highly experienced pilots who all share a PFT background and don't get hired because of that one fact! Thanks again, JR

April 30th, 2003, 14:05	#18
JDMcFly Old Skool Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: New York Posts: 1,667	Re: Gulfstream Academy I don't think thats the point Marine.. Up to the PFT newbies to decide and suffer the consequences later? Maybe some of the people here want to help guide those people before they go there.

April 30th, 2003, 14:53	#19
flycanuck Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Ontario, Canada (CYXU) Posts: 245	Re: Gulfstream Academy [ QUOTE ] Besides all of this, if you are Canadian (someone correct me if I'm wrong), you don't have the right to work as a pilot in the US and US ratings don't carry over to the Canadian system. Why would you want to train in the US? [/ QUOTE ] From what I hear, all you need is to write an FAA exam, take a few checkrides and then obtain the right to work in the states to apply for a flying job. What I don't know is if you can train at a mainstream flight school (ATP, comair, FSA, PanAm ect.) without U.S citizenship or a greencard. Can someone please fill me in. -FlyCanuck

April 30th, 2003, 17:16	#20
Wolverine Junior Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Scottsdale, AZ Posts: 167	Re: Gulfstream Academy You can train in the US while being a citizen of another country, we have several foreign students at PanAm. But, you must be a citizen (or green card, maybe?) to fly in anything representative of an aircraft 12,500lb or greater, such as our CRJ FTD. If you train in the US, you'll have FAA licenses which are only good for flying FAA registered aircraft. You'd have to convert your licenses to Canadian. As far getting the right to work in the US, I know it's not easy. Best of luck to ya!

April 30th, 2003, 22:54	#21
DE727UPS Old Skool Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Spokane, WA Posts: 6,550	Re: Gulfstream Academy No one is furloughed because of PFT but if the entire industry follows the lead of Gulfstream, then everyone will have the benefit of getting to pay 20K to sit right for a while. This is way bad for the profession. Is this the way you want to start your career Marinenav? Paying to be a pilot instead of being paid to be one? Guys have to sacrifice enough to make it in this career...we don't need to start taking backward steps at the beginning of it.

April 30th, 2003, 23:01	#22
Doug Taylor Agent Smith Join Date: Dec 1969 Location: KSDL Posts: 41,280 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Gulfstream Academy Besides, they spammed my forums a few times and produced a couple of wonderful pilots that "trolled" my users last year. Even if Gulfstream offered you 250 hours in an Airbus 320, I really don't think in light of the job market now that you're going to have any type of competitive advantage whatsoever. Besides, save the additional money for your job war chest.

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