Think Gulfstream's Bad? - Page 2

Kristie · March 27th, 2006, 23:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cherokee_Cruiser

Don't do anything until you have a 100% confirmation that it indeed is CAT that is facilitating this program.

I definately agree with that....

BCTAv8r · March 27th, 2006, 23:47

So as long as people know that they are harming others, and continue to PFT, what can others do?

kellwolf · March 27th, 2006, 23:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by BCTAv8r

I think paying for a type rating is justifiable, unlike paying for a job. Isn't buying a type-rating just like paying for your other licenses?

Not really. Skymates wouldn't pay for my CFI ratings, so I had to get them. I don't know of any banner tow places that will pay for your commercial rating, either. However, every airline I can think of (save the obvious one) WILL pay for your type rating. We've got a guy in class right now that bought a CRJ type. To me, it's just a total waste of $$$. You'll learn all the same things in systems class at the airline you would getting the type, and you won't even be able to use the type for about 1000 hours anyway. All you've really done is saved the airline a couple thousand dollars. It might make systems class and training easier, but then again so does studying your butt off. And that's free.

DE727UPS · March 27th, 2006, 23:57

"We've got a guy in class right now that bought a CRJ type. To me, it's just a total waste of $$$."

I don't know, man. It's a waste from the standpoint that you'll both get through training and you saved on the type. The question is, what were his times when he got on and how much did he not have to instruct to be in the same class as you. That's the way he's gonna look at it.

I use the benchmark of six months. He bought his type to save six months of instructing. I'd find it hard to justify, for a lot of reasons, but if you have the money to burn and hate instructing so much that it's worth 13.5K to not instruct for six months, then knock yourself out.

It's the guys that skip the instructing phase that bother me. You get so much out of being a CFI for a while and being an airline pilot shouldn't be a guys first job in aviation.

dcapilot · March 28th, 2006, 00:09

For once, I agree wholeheartedly with what UPS says. I recently (in the past 4 months) was hired as an FO at a regional. I came from a pilot factory and instructed for about 1200 hours before I applied and was hired by an airline.

Day after day I am faced with situations that I would not know how to handle had it not been for my experience as a CFI. Hell, day after day there are situations that I experience that are still super challenging because admittedly 1400 hours is still very very low time.

I had several individuals in my training class with 500 hours TT and they struggled with the training courses in areas where CFI's were dozing off.

Just my .02 cents for what it's worth.

(ok back to browsing topics here because there is NOTHING else to do on a boring OKC overnight!!!!)

E_Dawg · March 28th, 2006, 00:14

I personally think it is the standard you hold yourself to in day to day flying that matters more than the route you took. Still, cfiing is probably the best way to go about it because you get so many different kinds of experiences, and your resume shows that someone else trusted you with an aircraft (and paid you to do so).

DE727UPS · March 28th, 2006, 00:15

"ok back to browsing topics here because there is NOTHING else to do on a boring OKC overnight!!!!"

Do the people at DCA really hate me?

dcapilot · March 28th, 2006, 00:22

"Do the people at DCA really hate me?"

I don't think so. Now, fatbastard....most people hate him. =) (just kidding)

Hating someone takes a lot of effort and would be rediculous based on only reading someones thoughts and opinions online.

DE727UPS · March 28th, 2006, 00:22

"Here you go Don.....They fly for you guys."

What do you mean they fly for us? Thanks for the links, by the way.

DE727UPS · March 28th, 2006, 00:26

"Hating someone takes a lot of effort and would be rediculous based on only reading someones thoughts and opinions online"

Wow. I like that. Maybe we could have a watered down internet sort of hate.

I don't even like Fatbastard, myself, but it's cause of his sick attempts at dead baby humor. I had to respect his views on DCA, though, as he was at least a CFI there.

What other things have I posted you disagreed with?

RynoB · March 28th, 2006, 00:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcapilot

(ok back to browsing topics here because there is NOTHING else to do on a boring OKC overnight!!!!)

Go to Bricktown.

RynoB · March 28th, 2006, 00:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ralgha

HOLY CRAP they charge $23,000 for an ERJ type rating. You should get 5 type ratings for that cost.

A CE-525 type costs about 24k at Flight Safety.

dcapilot · March 28th, 2006, 00:59

"I don't even like Fatbastard, myself, but it's cause of his sick attempts at dead baby humor. I had to respect his views on DCA, though, as he was at least a CFI there.

What other things have I posted you disagreed with?"

I could be wrong, but if I remember correctly, he never worked as CFI at DCA. I believe he was enrolled in the CFI program, but left before completing his CFI rating.....as I said, I could be wrong though. Either way, it doesn't really matter I guess. And YES the dead baby crap got REALLY old REALLY fast.

Seemed like every post you made included "Being owned by Delta means everything...." Kinda like beating a dead horse. Perhaps you got your point across however....I don't believe they use that slogan anymore. =) I guess we could try to rehash all of the DCA threads, but that doesn't sound like much fun. Seems like the posts have been much more productive since the DCA thread disappeared.

By the way, had a UPS capt. jumpseat with us the other day and had a good time talking to him about the company. Sounds like a great place to be...I felt sorry for him scrunched up in that TINY jumpseat...but had lots of great stories and info about UPS. Handing out any recommendations in a few years?? =) (ok, I'll keep dreamin').

Gonzo · March 28th, 2006, 01:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by DE727UPS

"Here you go Don.....They fly for you guys."

What do you mean they fly for us? Thanks for the links, by the way.

Their web site used to have information about how most of their freight was contract work for UPS. I want to say it was somewhere around 80% of all their flights.

DE727UPS · March 28th, 2006, 01:13

"Kinda like beating a dead horse"

Well, that's not going to stop. I actually like that DCA puts out a guy with CFI's and 1000 total or more. What I don't like, I suppose you are familiar with....

"Handing out any recommendations..."

Yeah, got a buddy who went the small school/FBO route (partly me). As you may recall, there was a race with a DCA guy involving upward movement in the career. He just passed his FAA check airman ride and can release new 99 and PA31 guys to the line. I think the other guy went to Comair. Final results yet to be determined. But yeah, I'm gonna recommend him...

DE727UPS · March 28th, 2006, 01:18

"Their web site used to have information about how most of their freight was contract work for UPS"

Okay, that would be Menlo, which UPS bought. If the 80 percent number was accurate, they are about to lose 80 percent of their business. Starting June 6th, it will be flown by IPA crews. Not sure how that's going to affect their PFJ program but maybe they can fly around empty airplanes if they can find enough guys willing to pay to sit up front....

Ralgha · March 28th, 2006, 01:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by DE727UPS

"but in the latest issue of Flying, they had the same phone numbers as Gulfstream"

You gotta be kidding me....

I was afraid this Gulfstream crap was going to flow uphill. This is not a good thing...

'Fraid not. Pages 41 and 44 of the March issue.

DE727UPS · March 28th, 2006, 01:21

"'Fraid not. Pages 41 and 44 of the March issue."

They really have the same flippen phone number. Sorry, I don't subscribe...

dcapilot · March 28th, 2006, 01:24

"But yeah, I'm gonna recommend him..."

That's awesome. Sounds like he has been workin' his butt off. One thing that DCA CFI's would get slapped in the face with is how much work the small school/FBO guys have. (Not that DCA CFI's don't have to work hard, because trust me, they do)....but I doubt that half of them could function without someone walking up to them and saying, "hey, Frank, this is your new student Tim...". They definitely take that for granted.

frog_flyer · March 28th, 2006, 01:36

lol theyre offering 30/hr

http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/a...0051118183.htm

see payscale.....

Stone Cold · March 28th, 2006, 01:52

Well, according to the link above, they aren't hiring...so for all those that say PFJ doesn't take jobs, there ya go...could be some pilots employed at I believe it was $48/hour for 1st year FO.

I guess everybody has been jumping ship over there or something...most junior Capt is Sep 05...street captains or sinking ship???

Doug Taylor · March 28th, 2006, 05:41

Why do you guys even cross-post this bull#####?

Obviously, they're going to use the power of the internet to market their crap, use "viral marketing" to gain exposure and people are going to crosspost their vitriol at will thus increasing their exposure and acutally reducing their advertising costs.

The people that create those screwedup schemes do not care about how we feel about them.

Their target is the potential student pilot low on exposure and heavy on key bank loans that hasnt' done his research and is willing to drop phat cash and be defensible about his "choice" in flight training.

We can caterwall, scream, express disdain, et al about the screw job they're getting themselves into but until you reach the potential victim, the perpetrator does not give a rats ass. Take a peek at those that halfhdeartedly defend the Gulfstream scheme... They'd rather slap their mothers than admit that they were suckers.

Mr_Creepy · March 28th, 2006, 07:02

Quote:

They'd rather slap their mothers than admit that they were suckers.

Bingo!

The three options that Gulfstreamers (or other PFTers) have is to:

1) Lie about it - "Never was there"
2) Vigorously defend it - "It beats being a CFI! CFIs suck!"
3) Rationalize it - "I had no choice, what else could I do???"

BrianNC · March 28th, 2006, 08:05

I noticed that Heath Cohen is the President of JetUniversity. That sounds familiar. Anybody know who he is?

jtrain609 · March 28th, 2006, 09:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcapilot

Seemed like every post you made included "Being owned by Delta means everything...." Kinda like beating a dead horse. Perhaps you got your point across however....I don't believe they use that slogan anymore. =) I guess we could try to rehash all of the DCA threads, but that doesn't sound like much fun. Seems like the posts have been much more productive since the DCA thread disappeared.

There is one sucky thing about this forum; there are a large number of people who float in and out and the same material gets rehashed over, and over, and over, and over, and over. If we don't keep saying the same things again and again when issues come up, people WILL NOT use the search function to see what the users here had to say an on a mtter.

Hence we have our 2 week PFT cycle, 1 week headset cycle, etc. etc. If Don doesn't keep hammering this stuff home, even if it is saying the same crap over and over, the new kid that just surfed on here 15 minutes ago won't figure out that DCA's marketing is just that; marketing and not much more.

March 28th, 2006, 00:14	#31
E_Dawg Moderator Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: chicago Posts: 4,233	I personally think it is the standard you hold yourself to in day to day flying that matters more than the route you took. Still, cfiing is probably the best way to go about it because you get so many different kinds of experiences, and your resume shows that someone else trusted you with an aircraft (and paid you to do so). __________________ Yeah, I just stare at my desk; but it looks like I'm working. I do that for probably another hour after lunch, too. I'd say in a given week I probably only do about fifteen minutes of real, actual, work.

March 28th, 2006, 01:36	#45
frog_flyer Old Skool Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: FTW Posts: 4,056 Blog Entries: 1	lol theyre offering 30/hr http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/a...0051118183.htm see payscale..... __________________ "There needs to be more drinking here on JC. We need more ******* partying!" -Doug Taylor 210TT 20 ME

March 28th, 2006, 05:41	#47
Doug Taylor Agent Smith Join Date: Dec 1969 Location: KSDL Posts: 41,192 Blog Entries: 1	Why do you guys even cross-post this bull#####? Obviously, they're going to use the power of the internet to market their crap, use "viral marketing" to gain exposure and people are going to crosspost their vitriol at will thus increasing their exposure and acutally reducing their advertising costs. The people that create those screwedup schemes do not care about how we feel about them. Their target is the potential student pilot low on exposure and heavy on key bank loans that hasnt' done his research and is willing to drop phat cash and be defensible about his "choice" in flight training. We can caterwall, scream, express disdain, et al about the screw job they're getting themselves into but until you reach the potential victim, the perpetrator does not give a rats ass. Take a peek at those that halfhdeartedly defend the Gulfstream scheme... They'd rather slap their mothers than admit that they were suckers. __________________ Doug Taylor http://76school.flyblog.com (old!) http://30west.flyblog.com (updated 11/28)

March 28th, 2006, 08:05	#49
BrianNC Senior Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Charlotte, NC Posts: 817	I noticed that Heath Cohen is the President of JetUniversity. That sounds familiar. Anybody know who he is? __________________ BrianNC

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March 27th, 2006, 23:47	#27
BCTAv8r Old Skool Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Boca Raton Posts: 6,140	So as long as people know that they are harming others, and continue to PFT, what can others do?

March 27th, 2006, 23:57	#29
DE727UPS Old Skool Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Spokane, WA Posts: 6,546	"We've got a guy in class right now that bought a CRJ type. To me, it's just a total waste of $$$." I don't know, man. It's a waste from the standpoint that you'll both get through training and you saved on the type. The question is, what were his times when he got on and how much did he not have to instruct to be in the same class as you. That's the way he's gonna look at it. I use the benchmark of six months. He bought his type to save six months of instructing. I'd find it hard to justify, for a lot of reasons, but if you have the money to burn and hate instructing so much that it's worth 13.5K to not instruct for six months, then knock yourself out. It's the guys that skip the instructing phase that bother me. You get so much out of being a CFI for a while and being an airline pilot shouldn't be a guys first job in aviation.

March 28th, 2006, 00:09	#30
dcapilot Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 34	For once, I agree wholeheartedly with what UPS says. I recently (in the past 4 months) was hired as an FO at a regional. I came from a pilot factory and instructed for about 1200 hours before I applied and was hired by an airline. Day after day I am faced with situations that I would not know how to handle had it not been for my experience as a CFI. Hell, day after day there are situations that I experience that are still super challenging because admittedly 1400 hours is still very very low time. I had several individuals in my training class with 500 hours TT and they struggled with the training courses in areas where CFI's were dozing off. Just my .02 cents for what it's worth. (ok back to browsing topics here because there is NOTHING else to do on a boring OKC overnight!!!!)

March 28th, 2006, 00:15	#32
DE727UPS Old Skool Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Spokane, WA Posts: 6,546	"ok back to browsing topics here because there is NOTHING else to do on a boring OKC overnight!!!!" Do the people at DCA really hate me?

March 28th, 2006, 00:22	#33
dcapilot Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 34	"Do the people at DCA really hate me?" I don't think so. Now, fatbastard....most people hate him. =) (just kidding) Hating someone takes a lot of effort and would be rediculous based on only reading someones thoughts and opinions online.

March 28th, 2006, 00:26	#35
DE727UPS Old Skool Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Spokane, WA Posts: 6,546	"Hating someone takes a lot of effort and would be rediculous based on only reading someones thoughts and opinions online" Wow. I like that. Maybe we could have a watered down internet sort of hate. I don't even like Fatbastard, myself, but it's cause of his sick attempts at dead baby humor. I had to respect his views on DCA, though, as he was at least a CFI there. What other things have I posted you disagreed with?

March 28th, 2006, 00:59	#38
dcapilot Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 34	"I don't even like Fatbastard, myself, but it's cause of his sick attempts at dead baby humor. I had to respect his views on DCA, though, as he was at least a CFI there. What other things have I posted you disagreed with?" I could be wrong, but if I remember correctly, he never worked as CFI at DCA. I believe he was enrolled in the CFI program, but left before completing his CFI rating.....as I said, I could be wrong though. Either way, it doesn't really matter I guess. And YES the dead baby crap got REALLY old REALLY fast. Seemed like every post you made included "Being owned by Delta means everything...." Kinda like beating a dead horse. Perhaps you got your point across however....I don't believe they use that slogan anymore. =) I guess we could try to rehash all of the DCA threads, but that doesn't sound like much fun. Seems like the posts have been much more productive since the DCA thread disappeared. By the way, had a UPS capt. jumpseat with us the other day and had a good time talking to him about the company. Sounds like a great place to be...I felt sorry for him scrunched up in that TINY jumpseat...but had lots of great stories and info about UPS. Handing out any recommendations in a few years?? =) (ok, I'll keep dreamin').

March 28th, 2006, 01:13	#40
DE727UPS Old Skool Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Spokane, WA Posts: 6,546	"Kinda like beating a dead horse" Well, that's not going to stop. I actually like that DCA puts out a guy with CFI's and 1000 total or more. What I don't like, I suppose you are familiar with.... "Handing out any recommendations..." Yeah, got a buddy who went the small school/FBO route (partly me). As you may recall, there was a race with a DCA guy involving upward movement in the career. He just passed his FAA check airman ride and can release new 99 and PA31 guys to the line. I think the other guy went to Comair. Final results yet to be determined. But yeah, I'm gonna recommend him...

March 28th, 2006, 01:18	#41
DE727UPS Old Skool Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Spokane, WA Posts: 6,546	"Their web site used to have information about how most of their freight was contract work for UPS" Okay, that would be Menlo, which UPS bought. If the 80 percent number was accurate, they are about to lose 80 percent of their business. Starting June 6th, it will be flown by IPA crews. Not sure how that's going to affect their PFJ program but maybe they can fly around empty airplanes if they can find enough guys willing to pay to sit up front....

March 28th, 2006, 01:21	#43
DE727UPS Old Skool Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Spokane, WA Posts: 6,546	"'Fraid not. Pages 41 and 44 of the March issue." They really have the same flippen phone number. Sorry, I don't subscribe...

March 28th, 2006, 01:24	#44
dcapilot Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 34	"But yeah, I'm gonna recommend him..." That's awesome. Sounds like he has been workin' his butt off. One thing that DCA CFI's would get slapped in the face with is how much work the small school/FBO guys have. (Not that DCA CFI's don't have to work hard, because trust me, they do)....but I doubt that half of them could function without someone walking up to them and saying, "hey, Frank, this is your new student Tim...". They definitely take that for granted.

March 28th, 2006, 01:52	#46
Stone Cold Old Skool Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: SE US & Kiev Posts: 3,038	Well, according to the link above, they aren't hiring...so for all those that say PFJ doesn't take jobs, there ya go...could be some pilots employed at I believe it was $48/hour for 1st year FO. I guess everybody has been jumping ship over there or something...most junior Capt is Sep 05...street captains or sinking ship???