Do Yourself A Favor!!! About Flight Training and Respect

[jtrain609]

I pushed you to say it? Good job keeping your emotions in check on an internet message forum.

You're a winner!

[DE727UPS]

I've got half a notion to move this thread to the Looo but it's got some great stuff at the beginning, so I hesitate. Instead, I'm simply going to delete any further posts which contain personal attacks. Have a nice day....

[sleepy3528]

Pilots taking wage concessions at the top are driving regional pay down? i really dont think that is relative. your talking about Delta, Northwest,... that decided to take % cuts to levels where the average pilot salary is still 6 figures. i know a lot of pilots arent making 6 figures but they are out there. this really has little to no effect on regional pay. The majors needed to take the cuts to keep there jobs due to management demands. When the industry recovers from this race to the bottom then you will see wages go up but you wont see that at the regionals. you will see more and more routes being taken over by regionals because management knows that they can pay us less. They can pay us less because there are so many pilots right now and the especially young ones are willing to pay for their seat. if the number of pilots declines we can start demanding better pay but who knows what is going to happen. asking the FAA to step in will take years and be a political mess and we really only have our unions to rely on... as scary as that sounds. hopefully the unions will have more of a backbone if the pilot groups become more united and our knees arent continually being chopped out from under us by these PFT/PFJ companies.

You want us to blacklist airlines where they have a screwed up management and would hire these people. That is somewhat plausible but is already being done. Mesa is one of the worst regionals to go to and i dont even consider gulfstream a regional. There are good regionals and there are bad but for the most part no one knows which regional has been hiring a lot of these PFT/PFJ type people. lets face it management will never quite see the whole picture as they are mainly worried about the bottom line. so even at the best of regionals management will see a chance to save a buck.

your scenario of being a 900 hr CFI... if you went to gulfstream you would be pretty stupid. at 900 hr's you have a very good chance of landing interviews at a couple of regionals .... depending on multi time. if you were such a horrible pilot that you havent gained experience in those 900 hours or havent quite figured out how to do well in an interview and you need this company to pay your way into the cockpit.... you chose the wrong damn industry. 900 - 1200 TT with 100+ of multi will get you hired as long as you are a decent guy and can fly an approach or two. SOOO why go to gulfstream? This company and comapnies like it are only there to serve extremely low time guys who are trying to "fast track" to the cockpit of a jet. this is also refered to as SJS or shiney jet syndrome

[bob loblaw]

Originally Posted by sleepy3528

Pilots taking wage concessions at the top are driving regional pay down? i really dont think that is relative. your talking about Delta, Northwest,... that decided to take % cuts to levels where the average pilot salary is still 6 figures. i know a lot of pilots arent making 6 figures but they are out there. this really has little to no effect on regional pay. The majors needed to take the cuts to keep there jobs due to management demands. When the industry recovers from this race to the bottom then you will see wages go up but you wont see that at the regionals. you will see more and more routes being taken over by regionals because management knows that they can pay us less. They can pay us less because there are so many pilots right now and the especially young ones are willing to pay for their seat. if the number of pilots declines we can start demanding better pay but who knows what is going to happen. asking the FAA to step in will take years and be a political mess and we really only have our unions to rely on... as scary as that sounds. hopefully the unions will have more of a backbone if the pilot groups become more united and our knees arent continually being chopped out from under us by these PFT/PFJ companies.

You want us to blacklist airlines where they have a screwed up management and would hire these people. That is somewhat plausible but is already being done. Mesa is one of the worst regionals to go to and i dont even consider gulfstream a regional. There are good regionals and there are bad but for the most part no one knows which regional has been hiring a lot of these PFT/PFJ type people. lets face it management will never quite see the whole picture as they are mainly worried about the bottom line. so even at the best of regionals management will see a chance to save a buck.

your scenario of being a 900 hr CFI... if you went to gulfstream you would be pretty stupid. at 900 hr's you have a very good chance of landing interviews at a couple of regionals .... depending on multi time. if you were such a horrible pilot that you havent gained experience in those 900 hours or havent quite figured out how to do well in an interview and you need this company to pay your way into the cockpit.... you chose the wrong damn industry. 900 - 1200 TT with 100+ of multi will get you hired as long as you are a decent guy and can fly an approach or two. SOOO why go to gulfstream? This company and comapnies like it are only there to serve extremely low time guys who are trying to "fast track" to the cockpit of a jet. this is also refered to as SJS or shiney jet syndrome

I have no intentions of going to Gulfstream or paying for a job, I am saying that I understand why some do. And you are also correct in the fact that unless a pilot tells you where he did his training, you probably won't know where they trainied. Management surely won't tell you if you ask.

[jonnyb]

Bob,

I hope you don't desire to achieve a real professional pilot career after you're done being "super-instructor". Chances are, if you come across any of us here at JC's during an interview, I believe the answer will unanimously be: "Thanks for stopping in, bah-bye."

[CapnJim]

Second that. Especially after that low blow at John.

[bob loblaw]

[quote=jonnyb]Bob,

I hope you don't desire to achieve a real professional pilot career after you're done being "super-instructor". Chances are, if you come across any of us here at JC's during an interview, I believe the answer will unanimously be: "Thanks for stopping in, bah-bye."[/quote

I am sure my career will be just fine. What makes you so certain I want to work for you. I have a feeling that if some of the people here were involved in the hiring process, it wouldn't be a job I would want. Aviation is a small community, I know that for a fact, but that won't make me kiss anyones a$$ for a job. Thanks for playing though.

[bob loblaw]

Originally Posted by CapnJim

Second that. Especially after that low blow at John.

Let me ask you this all- knowing-one. Was it not a low blow for John to make fun of a mistake in my grammer just because my views are different from his. This is what makes me great, I have the guts to go against a group and it's popular beliefs. I have the guts to stand up and give back what is given to me. Others may sit back and take it just so they can be with a group. I run alone, a rouge if you like. I don't need a wolf pack.

[jonnyb]

[quote=bob loblaw]

Originally Posted by jonnyb

Bob,

I hope you don't desire to achieve a real professional pilot career after you're done being "super-instructor". Chances are, if you come across any of us here at JC's during an interview, I believe the answer will unanimously be: "Thanks for stopping in, bah-bye."[/quote

I am sure my career will be just fine. What makes you so certain I want to work for you. I have a feeling that if some of the people here were involved in the hiring process, it wouldn't be a job I would want. Aviation is a small community, I know that for a fact, but that won't make me kiss anyones a$$ for a job. Thanks for playing though.

Sounds good man. You obviously don't exercise good judgement as it's evident by how much you constantly run your mouth. All you have to do is look through these forums and it's obvious how you can't keep an opinion to yourself. It'll catch up to ya, give it time.

[jonnyb]

Originally Posted by bob loblaw

Let me ask you this all- knowing-one. Was it not a low blow for John to make fun of a mistake in my grammer just because my views are different from his. This is what makes me great, I have the guts to go against a group and it's popular beliefs. I have the guts to stand up and give back what is given to me. Others may sit back and take it just so they can be with a group. I run alone, a rouge if you like. I don't need a wolf pack.

Bob, please re-read your post (above). You don't think this sounds strange and funny? Come on, be honest.

[bob loblaw]

[quote=jonnyb]

Originally Posted by bob loblaw

Sounds good man. You obviously don't exercise good judgement as it's evident by how much you constantly run your mouth. All you have to do is look through these forums and it's obvious how you can't keep an opinion to yourself. It'll catch up to ya, give it time.

This is a forum where opinions can be expressed. Imagine if noone expressed their opinion, or needed permission to express that opinion. This forum would be pretty small. It would also be a boring place if everyone shared the same opinion, would it not?

[bob loblaw]

Originally Posted by jonnyb

Bob, please re-read your post (above). You don't think this sounds strange and funny? Come on, be honest.

No, it is not strange, or funny. I have been here long enough to know who piles on when your opinion differs from theirs. Don't you find it strange and funny that he would attack my grammer instead of offering a differing opinion?

[CapnJim]

Originally Posted by bob loblaw

... I run alone, a rouge if you like. I don't need a wolf pack.

AAAAAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!
OK, man, you're officially absolved in my eyes of anything you may have said to my friend John. Anyone willing to subject themselves to that level of public humiliation needs no further punishment from me.

And as for low blows-- who got moderated? What you said to John was low and cowardly. You suck for that, as does anyone who thought it was funny. You deserved to be moderated for it, and the fact that you're "O.K." with it is the reason moderation is necessary on a board of this caliber. If you are so incapable of filtering yourself that you don't feel the embarrassment and shame the rest of us feel for you, may I suggest you pack your trash and move it over to one of the "other" aviation websites.

[bob loblaw]

Originally Posted by CapnJim

AAAAAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!
OK, man, you're officially absolved in my eyes of anything you may have said to my friend John. Anyone willing to subject themselves to that level of public humiliation needs no further punishment from me.

And as for low blows-- who got moderated? What you said to John was low and cowardly. You suck for that, as does anyone who thought it was funny. You deserved to be moderated for it, and the fact that you're "O.K." with it is the reason moderation is necessary on a board of this caliber. If you are so incapable of filtering yourself that you don't feel the embarrassment and shame the rest of us feel for you, may I suggest you pack your trash and move it over to one of the "other" aviation websites.

SOOO, this is why you are defending John, He is your friend. HAHAHA. This explains everything and proves what I said about a wolf pack. Earlier, John called me a tool. I guess his behavior is acceptable, and my behavior is not? Like I said, this explains a lot!!!!

[bob loblaw]

I will take the high road now, because I am clearly above the likes of you and John. You two can go ahead and fire off all the insults you want to. I have actually done a great job in exposing your affection for one another. So good day to you.

[blee256]

well i got tired of reading this thing after a the first 3 or 4 pages, so if i write something that has already been mentioned, my apologies....

first, DOUGman isnt Doug Taylor????!!?? haha,jk.....

at what point is a bridge program considered "unrespectable"?? Most ATP instructors on this board are graduates of the "CRJ Airline tranistion bridge programs". But they did instruct for a little bit. And most of the ones that I know personally that did, I think make fine regional pilots. I only know of me and 2 other guys that didnt do the program when it came out. It was just bad timing for me, I didnt want to spend the money for the course when I had 800 hours. I figured I would just instruct some more get to my 1000 hours and throw my resume everywhere. But if I was at like 3,4 or 500 hours. I probably would have done it. And especially because the "bridge" airline is a great airline to work for. They have a much better contract, pay, and employee/managment relations than the company I work for. This thread has turned into CFI til 1000 or 1500 hours vs. PFT/bridge programers. Ok Maybe against the PFJers' for what they do to the industry. But bridge programs arent a bad deal.

I do have to say I am envious of my ATP counterparts. they didnt have to instruct as long as I did. they got on with an airline earlier than me even though they started way after me. And because of my pride, even if i was offered a job at XJT, I probably wouldnt have taken it. I didnt want to be junior to all of them. silly yes, but its just how I felt. But I wish the best of luck to them. They will be fine.

Bridge programs dont make better airline pilots. But just because they did one doesnt mean their not as good as the CFI sitting next to them in ground school. I think airlines only want to see because their biggest concern is, will this candidate make it through training. and if they have done some accelerated course, its somehow gives airline HR departments the warm and fuzzies onthe inside.

Keep in mind, they only exist because of the "guarenteed interviews" that follow a "successful completetion" of the course. If there was no interview, I guarentee you ATP,RAA, or any other school would have sold their CRJ FTD by now, because no one would sign up for it.

[CapnJim]

Originally Posted by bob loblaw

I will take the high road now, because I am clearly above the likes of you and John. You two can go ahead and fire off all the insults you want to. I have actually done a great job in exposing your affection for one another. So good day to you.

Yeah dude, ya really got me.
Ba-zing.

[CapnJim]

I'm sorry bob lowblow. I'll quit picking on you.
It's like beating a retard with a boat oar anyway.

[ETAV8R]

Where's Caneman when you need someone to chime in with some interesting banter?

[bob loblaw]

Originally Posted by CapnJim

I'm sorry bob lowblow. I'll quit picking on you.
It's like beating a retard with a boat oar anyway.

What on earth makes you think you can pick on me? You are sorely mistaken if you think you are picking on me. The only thing you did was get in John's cornor because you know he can't handle his own business. But don't let me saying this make you feel that you cause me any sweet.

[caliginousface]

[Chris_Ford]

Originally Posted by caliginousface

I don't care who you are, that's funny.

(You'll have to save that on a more permanent server so we can link to it when necessary )

[Sprint100]

Originally Posted by CapnJim

I'm sorry bob lowblow. I'll quit picking on you.
It's like beating a retard with a boat oar anyway.

Wow, did you notice that little jab at the end to get in the last word/insult ROTFLMAO

[bob loblaw]

Originally Posted by Sprint100

Wow, did you notice that little jab at the end to get in the last word/insult ROTFLMAO

I've got half a notion to move this thread to the Looo but it's got some great stuff at the beginning, so I hesitate. Instead, I'm simply going to delete any further posts which contain personal attacks. Have a nice day....


I think the personal attack rule applies only to me. But that's cool, I can handle myself. Everybody knows I can get real mean and nasty even though there is a price to pay for doing so.

[tonyw]

Originally Posted by Sprint100

Wow, did you notice that little jab at the end to get in the last word/insult ROTFLMAO

Technically, though, since he didn't call Bob a retard, only said picking on him was like hitting a retard, it wasn't a personal insult.