|
March 4th, 2006, 05:24
| #76 | |
| Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 586
|  Quote:
That's exactly what I was saying..... | |
|
|
March 4th, 2006, 09:10
| #77 |
| Old Skool  Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: DTW
Posts: 1,674
 | Sprint 100 First of I don't have too much of a problem with the Univeristy's that teach you to fly while give you a Bachelor's. In hindsight I do think they are charging too much for the education they are providing. They are also doing a disservice to students by selling them on the dream that they will be an airline pilot at the end of shcool. Second, A government agency doing the right thing will almost never happen. Lastly, my statement about working for peanuts was an over generalization |
|
|
|
March 4th, 2006, 09:26
| #78 |
| Old Skool Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: DTW
Posts: 1,674
| Seth, I do have problem with the fast track programs and have flown & jumpseated with people from those programs and was less than impressed and actually had serious WTF are you doing questions about some of their actions in the cockpit. Again, you cannot teach experience in a classroom. Secondly, I do understand that the right seat is somewhat of a learning seat. However, the captain shouldn't have to play the role CFI, He/she should be more of coach at best. I have little patients for a person that doesn't know memory items or limitations. I am not talking about a number or two here and there. We are talking complete checkilists and nothing about the engine limts...WOW how did that person make it out of SIM... Lastly, everyone in this industry deserves respect until they show they don't. But if I have to listen to one more low time FO tell me why he/she should be captain because of any school I going to slap him/her. Yes, I have seen an airline upgrade a person with 8 months of airline experience and met the bare minimum requirements for the upgrade.... Sorry for the long posts but some things in the industry just absolutely drive me nuts <END RANT>  |
|
|
|
March 4th, 2006, 10:46
| #79 | |
| Banned  Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 630
| Quote:
| |
|
|
|
March 4th, 2006, 11:06
| #80 |
| Old Skool  Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: KIDP/KCNU
Posts: 3,005
 | I might just be kind of stupid in a way, but when I was choosing my place to train. I looked at what the different requirements to get hired were. I pretty much figured 1200TT and about 200-250 ME. I looked at a log book, and do you know what I did not see there? Anything about what year the plane was, if it was ugly or not, and if it had fancy do dads in it. I also figured that if you have all that Fancy crap you probably will be dependent on it. Then if every in a pinch when that stuff fails. You are screwed because you never developed those skills. I also talked to a couple Regional Hiring Departments and was told that they are going to train you on their specific aircraft and procedures for 8-10 weeks if you get hired. I asked then if it was important to take any Jet Transition type courses, and they said NO!! They simply want to see if you have some knowledge, if you can fly adequately, if you can work well with others, and if you rattle. Not if you paid $60,000 or $25,000, not if you flew a raggedy old 1969 C-172 or a Shiny new Diamond, not if you flew a raggedy old Twin Commanche or a New Seminole. So I guess if you do your due diligence and research you will come to the same conclusion as Capt. A Another note as well. Flying in Arizona and Florida where the weather is nice most of the time, may get you finished quickly, but I doubt you get enough Real World IFR and weather excitement to make you sharp. Of course I am just a stupid trucker with 13hrs TT, so I don't know a damn thing. Just one mans opinion.
__________________ www.flywhiteair.com http://www.myspace.com/desertdog71 Following message is for SkyCougar.  Took my chances on a big jet plane, Never let them tell you that they're all the same. |
|
|
|
March 4th, 2006, 13:48
| #81 |
| Old Skool  Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Grand Forks, ND (UND)/ Davenport, IA
Posts: 2,204
| See the thing is, is I did do that very same research and did NOT come to the same conclusion. I cant speak for all FBO's, just mainly the ones around the midwest. MOST of them(since I didnt look at all bajillion of them) charge the same or more than the "fancy new airplanes with all the do-dads" that I fly at UND. Psst, by the way, we can turn the "do-dads" off.  Again, no one's said that UND isnt being lumped into this whole "flight schools are evil" thread. I dont know if you guys are in college or have graduated recently, but if you're going to school and doing flight training its gona cost you somewhere between 24-80,000 dollars for tuition alone depending on where you go. I, for example, will pay somewhere around 64,000 for my entire education, 77,000-125,000 with the college/FBO options I had back home.
__________________  |
|
|
|
March 4th, 2006, 13:57
| #82 | |
| Senior Member  Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Greenbow
Posts: 447
| Quote:
I agree with what you said about respect but, the way it was initially worded was "people who come from these schools will have no respect from me!!!" which i don't agree with, You can not teach experience in the classroom...very true... -Seth L. I should say though that when i wrote my opinions I had primarily thought of ATP...for being fast paced high output school... | |
|
|
|
March 4th, 2006, 21:00
| #83 | |
| Old Skool Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: DTW
Posts: 1,674
| Quote:
On another note I have seen some scary stuff in while JS on two other large regionals. Two things I have seen recently are that are not cool. 1. Resetting a CB 7 times in flight..WTF are they trying to start a fire. 2. Landing at REF + 30 in calm winds and not touching down anywhere the touchdown zone. I just love landing 1/2 way down the runway and being fast  The last two both occurred with pilots that bought there jobs. OK I AM OFFICIALLY LETTING THIS GO.... | |
|
|
|
March 4th, 2006, 21:05
| #84 |
| Agent Smith  | That's scary. C/B's pop for a reason, usually a good one! I don't even remember if we're allowed to reset in flight or not at my company.
__________________ Doug Taylor http://76school.flyblog.com (old!) http://30west.flyblog.com (updated 11/28) |
|
|
|
March 5th, 2006, 08:22
| #85 |
| Banned Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 630
| I believe as long as there will be bias, there will be disdain of the people who come from the PFT background. Some people's bias will make them tell stories to a group of other biased people, just to further the cause and hate. This all comes from the belief that PFT is destroying the industry, and lowering the bar for entry level regional carriers. Yet, noone has recognized that pilots at Delta, United, U.S.Air, to name a few, took major wage cuts and concessions to keep their companies from going belly up. Why take the concessions just to keep your job? Because we all know someone will do it for less. Why should the regionals (considered entry level into the airlines) pay their pilots a high wage when the pilots of major airlines took cuts to keep their jobs? " PFT isn't destroying the industry, people are. People who have mortgages and family, people who are afraid to lose it all and start all over again. There is an old saying, follow the money. Another old saying is ##### rolls down hill. The majors was the top, and the pilots took pay cuts to stay there. Laws of economics dictates a backwards flow, and it stops at the regionals. |
|
|
|
March 5th, 2006, 09:58
| #86 | |
| Old Skool  Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Park City, UT
Posts: 12,100
 | Quote:
__________________ "I could stand at the end of the line of the general mills cereal plant to make sure that all the lucky charms are up to par for 38k a year." -snickersnwa | |
|
|
|
March 5th, 2006, 10:41
| #87 |
| Newbie  Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Annapolis, MD
Posts: 22
| YAY for small town FBO's! Great post captainA... The best part about learning from an FBO, as I did, was the ability to go out and explore. All of my time building for commercial was cross country IFR flying to all corners of the country. That was the greatest experience in the world! While some of my coworkers from collegiate flight schools have 2 hours actual IFR and lots of hours flight university designated routes to the next state and back, I was accumulating 70 hours actual instrument time learning how mother nature and the IFR system worked. I would not trade that experience for any glass panels... this is exactly why I went to work for a small FBO. We offer dual at $105/hr in aircraft that have exactly what you need to be a good stick and rudder and nothing to charge extra for. We train some pretty rich people in the D.C./Baltimore area that are taught not to rely on fancy avionics but on the basic skills needed to be a successful pilot...
__________________ Kevin CFI / CFII / MEI Annapolis, MD |
|
|
|
March 5th, 2006, 11:51
| #88 | |
| Banned Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 630
| Quote:
| |
|
|
|
March 5th, 2006, 13:08
| #89 | |
| Senior Member  Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: KPDX
Posts: 1,135
| Quote:
He obviously wrote it like that on purpose (to emphasize) | |
|
|
|
March 5th, 2006, 15:53
| #90 | |
| Old Skool  Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: USA
Posts: 1,711
| Quote:
I did my private license and some XC timebuilding at an FBO, then went to a college program. At the FBO I could walk in, ask if the plane was available for the afternoon and if it was, say, "I'm going flying! See ya!" No paperwork, no CFI approval, nothing. Just take the keys and go. They trusted me to not do anything stupid. But that's what I expected. I was a licensed pilot so I was going to go out and use my license. I had to take care of myself, because certainly nobody else was going to keep me from getting into trouble. At my first day in the college program they slapped a big fat packet of college pilot regulations in front of me. How to dispatch planes, what weather I could and couldn't fly in, what paperwork I needed to fill out for cross countries, when I did or didn't need approval from a CFI for a flight, blah blah blah. I didn't know what I'd gotten myself into. Over time I've come to realize those procedures are the only way to administrate a large program and my college is actually very loose compared to a lot of other schools. I'm happy with the way my training has turned out. But still, I wouldn't trade that FBO flying for anything... | |
|
|
|
March 5th, 2006, 15:59
| #91 |
| Old Skool Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Park City, UT
Posts: 12,100
| It's a long sentence, but I don't see any problems with it. What? Don't know how to read? Oh and I didn't care about what you had to say, I was just straight up picking on you.
__________________ "I could stand at the end of the line of the general mills cereal plant to make sure that all the lucky charms are up to par for 38k a year." -snickersnwa |
|
|
|
March 5th, 2006, 17:39
| #92 | |
| Banned Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 630
| Quote:
| |
|
|
|
March 5th, 2006, 17:44
| #93 |
| Old Skool Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Park City, UT
Posts: 12,100
| Naw bro you got me all wrong, you don't have a clue what you're talking about to the point that it's pretty entertaining, and you keep me coming back to this site! Keep up the good work.
__________________ "I could stand at the end of the line of the general mills cereal plant to make sure that all the lucky charms are up to par for 38k a year." -snickersnwa |
|
|
|
March 5th, 2006, 20:15
| #94 | |
| Old Skool  Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 13,252
| Quote:
Show me where I mentioned the CAPT program. You're ASSUMING we're still talking about that other thread, which we're not. IMO, if you go to a school with a "specified training course" that gets you hired on to an airline with reduced mins, you're buying the job. Could you get said training course as a CFI? Nope. Do they give the CFIs that eventually get on with 100s more hours the exact same training in ground school at the airline. Yep. So, why in the heck are you spending $1000s on something you're gonna get for free? So you can get the job quicker and beat the other guys to that seniority number. THAT is what I see wrong. You can't deny that it's a possibility that in order to stay profitable, some carriers might start taking $$$ under the table from these flight schools. Sorta a "Give us X% of the money, and we'll interview your guys with 600 hours." Some people don't see a problem with that, until it gets wide spread. Suddenly, CFIs stop getting calls b/c they didn't do some crazy bridge program. I personally see bridge programs as a money making scheme that uses reduced hiring mins to line the suckers up. It seems to be working, too. BTW, Bob. You never did answer the question. Do you think it's okay to "buy" a job?
__________________ "I'm The Doctor, by the way. Run for your life!" | |
|
|
|
March 5th, 2006, 20:25
| #95 | |
| Old Skool Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: DTW
Posts: 1,674
| Quote:
 | |
|
|
|
March 5th, 2006, 23:24
| #96 |
| Old Skool  Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Spokane, WA
Posts: 6,482
| "BTW, Bob. You never did answer the question. Do you think it's okay to "buy" a job?" Blahblahblah said: "The bridger deserves the same opportunity as I do, regardless of his hours" Not sure if that answers your question but I took it as a yes... |
|
|
|
March 6th, 2006, 00:04
| #97 | |
| Senior Member  Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: SoCal
Posts: 513
| Quote:
I am going to guess you're talking about all ratings included right? Hope so. Cal State is Cheap for residents. If I stay with the FBO route I will probably be looking at around 24K for all my ratings and including the cost of my 4yr degree. | |
|
|
|
March 6th, 2006, 00:17
| #98 | |
| Banned Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 630
| Quote:
| |
|
|
|
March 6th, 2006, 00:19
| #99 | |
| Banned Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 630
| Quote:
| |
|
|
|
March 6th, 2006, 00:19
| #100 | |
| Old Skool Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Park City, UT
Posts: 12,100
| Quote:
__________________ "I could stand at the end of the line of the general mills cereal plant to make sure that all the lucky charms are up to par for 38k a year." -snickersnwa | |
|
|
| Thread Tools | |
| Display Modes | |
| |
Linear Mode
