A new flavor of PFJ?

[meritflyer]

ok. ok. what is "trolling" and "rolling"? Its as though there is only one right door around here.

[wheelsup]

Originally Posted by mtsu_av8er

I might have to go ferry an Aztec from Little Rock in a week or so - For $1200, you can ride along, talk to ATC, fly, and watch for traffic!!

You should post this "job opening" on climbto350 or similar job site, but prominently state that the "pilot" is required to pay $1200 for a "training fee" for this flight. You can seal the deal by saying "this is a great opportunity for a low Multi time pilot to get some real world experience and log some quality time for cheaper that it costs to rent a 172!"

Then post the replied, without names. It'd be hilarious!! Call it an "indsutry study" or something

~wheelsup

[wheelsup]

Originally Posted by meritflyer

ok. ok. what is "trolling" and "rolling"? Its as though there is only one right door around here.

Trolling is intentionally getting the "community" feathers in a ruffle by posting things that you know will drive people nuts and increase their blood pressure. It's the same as antagonizing kids in school just to get a reaction.

[Doug Taylor]

There's no single 'right door' anywhere.

We're a guidance-based website. An interface between professional pilots and those interested in learning about professional aviation.

I went thru great lengths to write a professional pilots perspective on the issue because it came up time and time again and I feel, correct me if I'm wrong, that I did a pretty good job explaining why things like PFT/PFJ have a direct impact on why an average new hire CRJ pilot with a family is on welfare.

I like analogies.

You're basically coming to the "Dr. Phil" show asking "Why develop a healthy relationship with a lady when I can just get a hooker?"

[meritflyer]

Thanks for the explanation. No, I am not "trolling" at all. I am trying to get a grasp of what is generally acceptable and what isnt. I am reasonably new to the aviation thing. I would hate to be one of those "dumb pilots" that PFT/PJFs out of not knowing what is kosher in the aviation world.

I guess the type programs are PFJ.

[Doug Taylor]

That page hasn't been 'hit' in the last 10 minutes. I at least expect to see at least *one* after reading this thread, MeritFlyer!

[wheelsup]

Originally Posted by meritflyer

I would hate to be one of those "dumb pilots" that PFT/PJFs out of not knowing what is kosher in the aviation world.

There's a little voice inside everybody called the "conscience" that tells you if something is right or wrong. Use it, it won't steer you in the wrong direction !

~wheelsup

Edit: I clicked the link to just see what was there . It's good stuff - take a gander merit.

[Chris_Ford]

Originally Posted by Doug Taylor

You're basically coming to the "Dr. Phil" show asking "Why develop a healthy relationship with a lady when I can just get a hooker?"

This is a much more important question and requires an immediate answer

[mtsu_av8er]

Originally Posted by Doug Taylor

Lloyd, don't be so Wal Mart about it. Gotta think like "Sharper Image", bro!

I'll offer the program for $1,500, I'll keep $300 as a 'administrative fee' and then forward you $1,200 free 'n clear. So when our customer gets himself burned, I have deniability because I only acted as an agent and you'll have protection because you're simply a sub-contractor.

See, you are the man!! All this talk about a flight school - I'll sub-contract as the "Airline Pilot Advanced Right-Seat Hiring" program!! This is obviously where the money is!!

[Doug Taylor]

But we need a spokesrapper to give us "street cred" though.

[mtsu_av8er]

Originally Posted by wheelsup

You should post this "job opening" on climbto350 or similar job site, but prominently state that the "pilot" is required to pay $1200 for a "training fee" for this flight. You can seal the deal by saying "this is a great opportunity for a low Multi time pilot to get some real world experience and log some quality time for cheaper that it costs to rent a 172!"

Then post the replied, without names. It'd be hilarious!! Call it an "indsutry study" or something

~wheelsup

SWEET!!!!! It's just been submitted!!

Looks like I'll be making rent this month after all . . .

[Chris_Ford]

Originally Posted by Doug Taylor

But we need a spokesrapper to give us "street cred" though.

I'll do it for $100/customer.


Seriously, look at that avatar. If it doesn't scream street cred, nothing will.

[mtsu_av8er]

Originally Posted by Chris_Ford

I'll do it for $100/customer.

Come on, Chris - look at our business model and tell me if you think we need anybody on our payroll!!! I'll just let somebody fly with me once or twice and that should be payment enough!!!

[Chris_Ford]

Originally Posted by mtsu_av8er

Come on, Chris - look at our business model and tell me if you think we need anybody on our payroll!!! I'll just let somebody fly with me once or twice and that should be payment enough!!!

See, but here's the thing. I make brands explode. And "fast feet to the right seat" or whatever it's called can be one of those brands, if you pay me $100 per customer.

Example: Fubu was nothing until I started hawking it. Neither was Avirex. Or perhaps you might've heard of Nike "Air Force Ones"... Some of the most popular apparel of its time, all thanks to me. Notice in my avatar how I am wearing a sports jersey? I started that trend too.

[DE727UPS]

"I think that there are MANY extraordinary pilots who dont follow this route"

There may be but I'd bet the number that do it the traditional way is exponentally larger. But hey, go to RAA and let us know how it works out.

You talk about seniority numbers in your last year? That only works if you stay with the same airline from 600 total to retirement. What are the odds of that? When you leave your first job for your second job, you start over.

There are too many variables over the course of a career to give the "get on quick for the seniority" agrument to hold water.

[Doug Taylor]

Another angle too is that a lot of the regionals aren't really airlines any more (many don't own aircraft, do not have reservation systems, don't own routes, have no advertising, etc), but more of a 'capacity provider'. United needs 50 seats from ABC to XYZ and CHQ, YV, SKY all 'bid' on that flying. The lowest cost gets the route.

So you can get on with GoJets, be at the top of the seniority list and then if that contract isn't renewed because they can't competitively bid on flying because of CheapJets pays their pilots even less and underbid all of GoJets bids, you're back on the street looking for a job.

...and still having to pay all of that PFJ/PFT debt off.

Then, at that point, you may have a wife, a couple kids and a mortgage only to realize that the only jobs available pay welfare-eligible wages for a family of four.

Anger.

Dismay.

And then the realization. They're paying low wages because there's a line of 500 hour pilots with cash in hand, willing to pay their way into a job to get that seniority number as fast as possible.

So to answer your question, yes there are other ways to get into the cockpit rather than the military or traditional methods of civilian time building. But if you drop some cash to buy yourself a job, you have no one to blame but yourself when the average burger flipper at In-N-Out burger earns far more than a new CRJ FO.

[Maximillian_Jenius]

Originally Posted by Chris_Ford

I'll do it for $100/customer.


Seriously, look at that avatar. If it doesn't scream street cred, nothing will.

Screams closeted homosexual to me more IMHO...

[Doug Taylor]

Originally Posted by Chris_Ford

See, but here's the thing. I make brands explode. And "fast feet to the right seat" or whatever it's called can be one of those brands, if you pay me $100 per customer.

Example: Fubu was nothing until I started hawking it. Neither was Avirex. Or perhaps you might've heard of Nike "Air Force Ones"... Some of the most popular apparel of its time, all thanks to me. Notice in my avatar how I am wearing a sports jersey? I started that trend too.

Yeah, but can you give potential customers the impression that "I'll shoot you in the face if you stiff me on the hobbes meter" with a single look? Other than that, I'm mostly sold.

[Chris_Ford]

Originally Posted by Doug Taylor

Yeah, but can you give potential customers the impression that "I'll shoot you in the face if you stiff me on the hobbes meter" with a single look? Other than that, I'm mostly sold.

Yes sir, I do have that look. And it's much more menacing when I have a big ol' ex-marine who's got my back

And Max, keep on dreaming man. It'd take pretty damning evidence to overcome my near arrest for public indecency with one of my exes

[Maximillian_Jenius]

Originally Posted by Chris_Ford

And Max, keep on dreaming man. It'd take pretty damning evidence to overcome my near arrest for public indecency with one of my exes

So is that supposed to be a "badge of honor" or just stupidity? And chill I just like kickin you in the balls about it...friendly joking amongst friends you know!

Now look at the smiley...

[meritflyer]

Thanks for the smackdown. I appreciate it. Just for the record, I am not going to RAA and recently advised a prospective student to stay away from the type rating programs since being a CFI is the best way to earn credibility in the airline/aviation community. I did read the PFJ page and understand its contents.

Doug, thanks for your assistance. Just like you said "one of my hobbies is helping aspiring aviators". I appreciate your point of view.

[Chris_Ford]

Originally Posted by Maximillian_Jenius

So is that supposed to be a "badge of honor" or just stupidity? And chill I just like kickin you in the balls about it...friendly joking amongst friends you know!

Now look at the smiley...

Getting caught was stupid, but the act was a badge of honor. That being said, be advised that the police do actually patrol the Chandler Sports Complex and its associated soccer fields at 1AM. However, neighborhood greenbelts are usually free of cops, and even so, they see a car parked on the street and it's just someone staying at that house.

But I've said too much.

(And I know you're busting my balls, but I just need to clarify, don't want any newbies getting any ideas, y'know? )

[Mr_Creepy]

Not that there's anything wrong with that ...