Refusing To ##### Myself

[Bigey]

Originally Posted by Doug Taylor

Why is that, Bigey?

I'm not too sure, but that's what i heard from a friend inquiring about working there. They start their workers off really good on pay and treat employees wonderfully.

If i remember right (we got 1 in-n-out in DB) the managers start off at 85k and work their way up. Theres a training facility by LA too, for becoming a manager and higher positions.

[Texasspilot]

Some uhh thing tells me that most of thier managers have been with the company about 13 years and thier managers start at 33,000. I believe that in addition to cash compensation they also recieve a complete benifits package.

[jonnyb]

In-N-Out Burger is a family owned and operated company with over 180 locations throughout California, Arizona, and Nevada. On average, we open 10 new store locations a year. Our stores are staffed with 4 managers, beginning with a 4th manager, which is our entry level managerial position, up to our Store Manager, who is responsible for the entire store operation and the supervision of, on average, 50 hourly associates.
Our Store Managers, on average, have been with the company for over 13 years and average in excess of $100,000 in total compensation per year. In addition to the Store Manager position, there are three additional levels of restaurant management positions: 2nd Manager, 3rd Manager, and 4th Manager. Average annual compensation for these levels of management are: 2nd Managers - $50,000/year, 3rd Managers - $41,000/year, and 4th Managers - $33,000/year. In addition to cash compensation, all managers enjoy a comprehensive benefits package including paid vacations, a 401k program, and medical, dental, vision, and life and travel insurance coverage.

Once again, incorrect information.



You beat me to it Texas. Ya bastage!

[Texasspilot]

hahahha....slow

[frog_flyer]

Originally Posted by Texasspilot

What about NetJets...they got all 4 as well as many other companies.

Also I know everyones in the rush to hit 1000Turbine PIC to get on with southwest but my buddies on the line thier all say that its closer to 1800 to be competitive and I imagine that number to steadily increase.

lol you need 2500TT to even apply for nja.

[Texasspilot]

that aint very much

[Bigey]

Originally Posted by jonnyb

Once again, incorrect information.



You beat me to it Texas. Ya bastage!

I wasnt talking about the 4th managers that run the place, i was talking about the lead manager. And if 13 year make 100g's on the median i would say about 7-8 years make 85G's which is around what i said.

I stick by my statement - A lead manager makes around 85k starting, and works his way up in terms of money. I wasnt talking about the level of manager.

Still beats the price increase with seniority though, compared to the regionals! =P

[CapnJim]

"You know, I used to be just like you. Now...I'm washin' lettuce. Soon I'll be on fries, then the grill. In a year or two, I'll be assitant manager...and that's when the big bucks start rollin' in."

Name that film!

[pullup]

Originally Posted by CapnJim

"You know, I used to be just like you. Now...I'm washin' lettuce. Soon I'll be on fries, then the grill. In a year or two, I'll be assitant manager...and that's when the big bucks start rollin' in."

Name that film!

Coming to America, one of the best movies EVER!!

[B767Driver]

Originally Posted by Mr_Creepy

Q: What do you call a commuter pilot with no girl friend?

A: Homeless.

Badump crash - I'll be here all week!

That's a good one. The guys who would drive up to the hangar in the morning with a nice car (one that was less than 10 years old) and did not brown bag lunches were the ones who had wives that were doctors.

[B767Driver]

Q. Why do commuter pilots brush their teeth before going home from a trip? A. They don't want their family to smell food on their breath.



BTW Jim, no major/regional issues here...I thought these were great when I was a commuter guy also.

[mtsu_av8er]

Originally Posted by Texasspilot

that aint very much

Aww, man - you mean you're not salty once you have 1500??

[NJA_Capt]

Originally Posted by Seggy

... working at Colgan is not '#######' yourself out... We are building VERY quality Turbine 121 time before we move on to a major in 4-5 years.

Originally Posted by Seggy

I am getting a part time job at a restaurant waitering/bar tending that will put a few extra dollars in my wallet as I live the dream.

These two statements pretty much verify the original poster's idea. If you are flying a jet airliner, and you need to deliver pizzas or bartend to supplement your income, you are selling yourself (and the industry) short.

It used to be:
Get quality time to get a career,

Now it has become:
Get a career to build quality time.


The question now is: Build quality time to go to which major? The least bankrupt? 4-5 years?? It will take them 5 years just to hire back their furloughees (if they are still in business).

[jtrain609]

But Seggy isn't flying a jet, he's flying a Beech 1900 and making as much as guys that are driving jets around eh?

[CapnJim]

B76'- keep 'em coming! I think they're hysterical.

Q: How do you get 1st year regional pilots to form a picket line?
A: Roll a nickel down the street!

[buffalopilot]

Exactly, if i invested all my years in college,and money, to flight train to get an airline job and then need to work a side job to survive, Its not right! Forget the longrun, how about decent pay now. Also with all the layoffs, you cant advance in seniority to make decent pay.

[Sprint100]

Originally Posted by buffalopilot

Exactly, if i invested all my years in college,and money, to flight train to get an airline job and then need to work a side job to survive, Its not right! Forget the longrun, how about decent pay now. Also with all the layoffs, you cant advance in seniority to make decent pay.

You knew the job was dangerous before you took it!!!
It's not right? , no, It's just simple economics!!!
If you CHOSE to do something that requires a sidejob, just get the side job or do something else!!!!!

[CapnJim]

Originally Posted by buffalopilot

Exactly, if i invested all my years in college,and money, to flight train to get an airline job and then need to work a side job to survive, Its not right! Forget the longrun, how about decent pay now. Also with all the layoffs, you cant advance in seniority to make decent pay.

OK buff, that's your call. Just recognize that my joke was about a "1st year regional pilot". 2nd year pay is in the low $30's/hr. with a raise very year up to the mid $40's, and that's not senority based. Assume a 4 year upgrade; 1st year Captain pay is in the low $60's and goes up to the mid $90's . Can you at least see how backing up for a few years will net you more in the long run?
There's lots of 1st year F/O's who hold second jobs and have families. It tough sometimes yeah, but you look at it like an investment for the future. I don't recommend working for bottom feeder regionals like Mesa or Pinnacle because those guys really do ##### themselves for the jet time. And honestly, I wouldn't take $18,000 for a 70 seater either. But for the good regionals the benefits, QOL, and time of ain't bad!

[jonnyb]

If you CHOSE to do something that requires a sidejob, just get the side job or do something else!!!!!

The "regionals" are not the only CHOICE! There are jobs that pay enough to survive. The "regionals" are not the only option! Do I need to say it again? I don't understand why some people think this is the only route. Know one should need a side job when they're flying a 90,000lb. jet! That's ridiculous. Get the point now?

[Sprint100]

Originally Posted by jonnyb

The "regionals" are not the only CHOICE! There are jobs that pay enough to survive. The "regionals" are not the only option! Do I need to say it again? I don't understand why some people think this is the only route. Know one should need a side job when they're flying a 90,000lb. jet! That's ridiculous. Get the point now?

Not trying to strike a nerve jonnyb . I tried to emphasize "chose" because that is one of the many ways to go about it. I simply saying that in whatever you choose, do what you gotta do to make it happen.

Disclaimer: In no way am I condoning illegal activity when I say do what you gotta do.

[Texasspilot]

Originally Posted by mtsu_av8er

Aww, man - you mean you're not salty once you have 1500??

I'vee been a million places and seen a million things...I know aviation....hell i gotta degree in ass-kickin airplanes. I GOT OVER 1000 HOURS IN AIRPLANES. WHERES MY JET, WHERES MY CHECK, WHERES MY HOES
I WANNA BE PIMPIN ALL OVER THE WORLD

I PAYED MY DUES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

and...im done.

JonnyB....I've changed my mind and decided the more guys go regionals...the less competition there is.

[jonnyb]

Disclaimer: In no way am I condoning illegal activity when I say do what you gotta do.

No sweat man. I'm just trying to stress yet again that the "regional" route is not the only way or the best way for that matter.

[CapnJim]

Originally Posted by jonnyb

The "regionals" are not the only CHOICE! There are jobs that pay enough to survive. The "regionals" are not the only option! Do I need to say it again? I don't understand why some people think this is the only route. Know one should need a side job when they're flying a 90,000lb. jet! That's ridiculous. Get the point now?

Of course it's not the only option. But for some people, it's the best option.
Example: If you don't have a family, don't mind loading your own cargo, sleeping during the day in lousy hotels, working the back side of the clock and flying equipment and avionics form the Carter administration, you can make plenty of cash flying jet cargo! And good upgrade time too!
Further, if you don't mind never being home, having little to no job security, no union representation, being a personal servant as well as a pilot, can tolerate a decade to upgrade, as well as spending 2 more years of your career flight instructing to get the mins, by all means go fly corporate or fractional!
Or you can make peanuts your first year, a livable wage your second, good pay as captain after a few years, have a good QOL, nice benefits, union representation, 121 time, sleep in a Doubletree Sleep Number bed with your warm cookie on the overnight, and take your wife to Paris, 1st class, for FREE. That's the choice I had, and I took it.
I'm not trying to bag on cargo or fractionals-- some people have different experiences and for some people those are better options. Good on them. My point is that at the 1000-2500TT level, you can't have it all. You have to sacrifice in some areas to make good in others. If the options were all so great, why would anyone apply for the Majors? The best you can do is make the best choice, with the best information you can get, at the point in time you have to make the decision.
If you decide to go regional, great, but remember: "Boycott the bottom-feeders; apply for the top regional jobs and we all win."

[jonnyb]

Further, if you don't mind never being home, having little to no job security, no union representation, being a personal servant as well as a pilot, can tolerate a decade to upgrade, as well as spending 2 more years of your career flight instructing to get the mins, by all means go fly corporate or fractional!

First of all, the Fracs. have union representation. I've never been or plan on being ANYONE's "personal servant" (what the hell is that all about?). Decade to upgrade? You don't know what you're talking about. 2 years flight instructing? Maybe more common now but still not always necessary depending on one's contacts; I instructed for 8 1/2 mos.

I think you're a good dude Jim, but talking about what you don't know much or anything about, is lame.

121 time

A.....who cares. Not me or anyone I know.

and take your wife to Paris, 1st class, for FREE

Now, there's a definite advantage! That would be nice. Guess I'll just have to buy a ticket. Dang! (not being sarcastic by the way, I really mean this).

You make some valid points Jim. The pay for equipment is the no brain kicker for me, so I'll never recommend the "regional" route. But I understand where you're coming from. I also understand that you don't know nearly as much as you should about the other facets of aviation to make a truly informed decision. But hey, it's already been made and you're enjoying yourself (that is, when your incompetent "captain" isn't trying to kill you by "going below").

Bottom line; many young people don't get as informed as they should when they make big decisions like this. They do what they want. If someone gets an opportunity to fly a "big" regional jet fresh out of flight instructing, many just do it without really thinking it through. Plain and simple.

[Minnesota_Flyer]

Originally Posted by tonyw

Look, we ALL ##### ourselves out. If I was independently wealthy, I'd travel the world, ski, play some volleyball on the beach, hike, bike, take pictures of cool places, and so on. Work? Hah!

But since I'm not, the question is, are they going to be paying me enough money so that when they bend me over, it will help soothe the pain?

Everyone has to answer that question on their own.

As usual, Churchill (supposedly) said it best: We've established what you are, now we're negotiating for a price.