Upgrade times

[meyers9163]

Looking into the future a little bit and just wondering currently what are the upgrade estimates for F/O with a regional to change seats? Average regionals such as Skywest, ASA, expressjet, Republic (Chaq)? Then second question is after upgrading to the Pilot in Command how much longer would it take a person ideally to go from PIC to a larger company such as a Fedex, UPS, Continental , Frontier, etc? Just wondering if anyone knows some who has currently made it through the path and how long it took them and or has factual information about the length of someone who has made it recently or in the process? Lastly upon making it into the larger companies then how long until they get the upgrade to Captain of a Fedex, UPS, Continental, Frontier, etc? Any thoughts would be good.

[Kingairer]

Anyone got those crystal ball pictures handy?

Its all seniority based, so it just "depends".

[meyers9163]

No need for the smart replies.... I realize the facts, just asking anyone with current experience and how long it took them. Thanks for the reply though even if you are trying to be a funny guy!

[Kingairer]

Wasnt trying to be funny, and thats the best answer I could give ya. Todays quick upgrade is tommorrows company that is stagnat with stale wood.

[FlyChicaga]

Seriously, Kingairer is being a smart-ass, but it's in good measure. The facts are, NOBODY can predict these things. Airline future predictions are in month-long spans. Maybe six months at best. Right now, I'm looking at upgrading in maybe a year, year and a half. That would mean two and a half years as an FO. But, if we lose planes, go into Chapter 11 bankrupcy, or furlough, that could change overnight. You just never know in this game of "numbers." You just sit back, enjoy the ride, and hope for the best. You can plan a little bit, like financial planning, but there is really no way to map out any type of airline career. You just don't know.

[FlyChicaga]

Originally Posted by meyers9163

No need for the smart replies.... I realize the facts, just asking anyone with current experience and how long it took them. Thanks for the reply though even if you are trying to be a funny guy!

BTW, Kingairer is a current pilot at a regional, who just upgraded. I think that qualifies as "current experience."

He's right. It depends.

[Maximillian_Jenius]

Originally Posted by meyers9163

No need for the smart replies.... I realize the facts, just asking anyone with current experience and how long it took them. Thanks for the reply though even if you are trying to be a funny guy!

I have something whitty,funny and sarcastic to say about the nature of this thread and a few of your others.
But I'm actually gonna reserve my right to keep my mouth shut.
So insert sarcastic reply here "________________"

-Matthew

[Doug Taylor]

It changes by the day. Seriously.

It could be 14 months, it could be 9 years, virtually changing overnight regardless (irregardless as SteveC would say) of if it's a regional, a major, an LCC, whatever.

Or, if you worked for TWA before the AA purchase, it could have been up to 17 years.

[Bog]

When I was hired at MAG, upgrade into an RJ was at about 6 years.

At my 1-year anniversary, the ERJ was down to a 14-month CA, and the CRJ was down to a 5-year CA.

Currently, the CRJ dipped to a 2-year CA, but it has shot back up again overnight. The ERJ ... hard to guess, because many current FOs don't want to have the Freedom name on the resume, even though it's no longer a bad thing. The Dash ... heck we hired off the street into the left seat last year, now the most recent upgrades are 4-6 years of seniority. I'm approaching my 6-year mark. I have my 1000 PIC Turbine. Life's great, right? NO FREAKING WAY. Where can I go?

Frontier? My only connections already have a list of people begging for recommendations, and they only get 1 per year.

FedEx? There are 10,000+ applications on hand over there. I know 2 FDX pilots, and word-on-the-street (from jumpseaters) is that you need 3 references, one of whom needs to walk your stuff in.

I'd love UPS, but that isn't going to happen either. I'm down to 2 connections there, neither is a pilot, and neither has enough clout to help.

AirTran? Yeah, I could go there ... but it'd be a bizatch of a commute from PHX.

jetBlue? Sure, but I personally don't think they have what it takes to go the distance, and the commute from PHX to JFK is tooooo loooong for me.

United, American, Northwest, and Delta will not be hiring anytime soon. Continental wants 500 pilots. Bet they'll get 1000 resumes for each of those slots, if not more. US / HP ... they'll trickle hire soon, but many don't think they'll make it very long. Southwest has slowed hiring because the New Orleans shutdown has hurt their route system. They'll start hiring again soon, but every regional pilot I know who's interviewed there (after spending $7k for the type) has been told to call back in a year.

So, there ya have it. I hate to sound negative ... but I can't think of any other way. I know far too many pilots, both regional and mainline, who want off of this silly ride and into non-aviation careers. Are you sure that you want in?

[Doug Taylor]

I saw some nice property in southeastern Washington on arrival into KSEA this evening.

Wanna start a militia? I've got some firearm connections, you've got the Bogmobile and Kristie bakes a mean lasagne.

[DE727UPS]

"I saw some nice property in southeastern Washington on arrival into KSEA this evening"

Was it Walla Walla? Nice place for a compound. Really, you want a compound, extreme NE Washington or N Idaho is your best bet. It's pretty country and cheap real estate. SE Washington is boring if you ask me. You won't like the winters and the commute to SLC might kinda suck.

Upgrades to Capt at UPS are about ten years, don't see any reason for that to change much until our new contract. Then, it still might not change.

[Bog]

Originally Posted by Doug Taylor

you've got the Bogmobile

Actually ... I have two. One in AZ and one in TN. One paid for, one sucking me dry every month. I'm ready!

[Doug Taylor]

I'm not even sure. I just remember wrestling with the VNAV while descending via the arrival and having a moment of zen.

If I started a militia, I wouldn't have to be worrying about a commute to an airline hub!

[SteveC]

Originally Posted by Doug Taylor

...virtually changing overnight regardless (irregardless as SteveC would say)...

Ouch!

[meyers9163]

Well then congradulations Kingairer on the recent upgrade. I was not trying to say he did or did not have experience. I realize the world and how it changes I was kind of just looking for a rough estimate but if I'd have thought about that a little more I'd have answered it for myself by thinking of how it changes so fast. But with that said how long did it take you Kingairer to go from F/O to Captain? I know it changes but just curious since you do have that recent experience with the regionals.

[Maximillian_Jenius]

Originally Posted by Doug Taylor

I'm not even sure. I just remember wrestling with the VNAV while descending via the arrival and having a moment of zen.

If I started a militia, I wouldn't have to be worrying about a commute to an airline hub!

You have to pay for the guns and your property some how and mass hyponosis/brainwashing kits don't come cheap!

-Matthew

[E_Dawg]

Originally Posted by meyers9163

Looking into the future a little bit and just wondering currently what are the upgrade estimates for F/O with a regional to change seats? Average regionals such as Skywest, ASA, expressjet, Republic (Chaq)?

Exactly 2-7 years.

[mrivc211]

"FedEx? There are 10,000+ applications on hand over there. I know 2 FDX pilots, and word-on-the-street (from jumpseaters) is that you need 3 references, one of whom needs to walk your stuff in."


My buddy (Mexican) upgraded back in December and now has 750 hours PIC Turbine. When he was an instructor, this black guy walks in with his kid and no one helps him(no one wants to admit it but it was because a black guy and his kid walked in). My buddy walked over and helped them out, answered all their questions, and spent over 2 + hours showing them around at a busy time. The potential students dad was very thankful and after they were done, he turned to my buddy and said," XXX if you ever need anything, give me a call". Turns out he's an MD-11 Captain at Fedex. Well that was years ago. He's been staying in touch with him over the years. He did instruct his son as long as he could before he was hired.

Well, when my buddy upgraded here at Skywest, the captain at Fedex became more active in keeping up relations with my buddy. He invited him over to dinner, and told him the whole story. Turns out he's the director of training at Fedex. He's also one of the interview captains. You could say he hit the jackpot. Nothing is gauranteed, but you could say he's got a in at Fedex. The captain said they have over 20,000+ apps on file.

[greaper007]

Hey, at least the regionals are hiring. Who knows what upgrade times will be, but I do know that pilots tend to be either: overly pesimistic, or overly optimistic. So everything on this board should probably be taken with a grain of salt. Hopefully for us the age 60 rule will stay in place. The majors and legacies will have to hire pilots in a few years if it does.
When all these chapter 11's and/or mergers go through the airline industry will be completely different. The landscape right now reminds me of the late 80s early 90s (granted I was only a kid). When TWA, Pan Am, Eastern, Midway etc went bankrupt. I heard all kinds of stories about pilots sleeping in their cars in those days. Then by the mid to late 90s airlines couldn't get enough applicants. I don't see any reason why this cyclical nature won't continue. More and more people are flying. Someone has to fly them.
But hey, I could be wrong.

[fender_jag]

"I know far too many pilots, both regional and mainline, who want off of this silly ride and into non-aviation careers. Are you sure that you want in?"


This is true. A lot of pilots get into Real Estate; did you know that some Loan Officers make upwards of $30,000/month?

I've heard that Jack In The Box/In-n-Out managers also do well.

[meyers9163]

So if you had a choice where Regional would you try to get on with and why? Just wondering for anyone to answer..... Then what are the top regional carriers currently, I know a lot about Skywest, ASA, Chautauqua and ExpressJet but was wondering if there are others out there that are considered to be more "Top" notch.....

[Bog]

Originally Posted by greaper007

Hey, at least the regionals are hiring.

That doesn't help when you're already at one. Just getting in? Yes, but with a hitch...

When all these chapter 11's and/or mergers go through the airline industry will be completely different. The landscape right now reminds me of the late 80s early 90s (granted I was only a kid). When TWA, Pan Am, Eastern, Midway etc went bankrupt. I heard all kinds of stories about pilots sleeping in their cars in those days. Then by the mid to late 90s airlines couldn't get enough applicants. I don't see any reason why this cyclical nature won't continue. More and more people are flying. Someone has to fly them.
But hey, I could be wrong.

Many believe passenger aviation is just going through its usual cycle. However, this one isn't the normal cycle. Never in the past, to the best of my knowledge, have we seen the systematic replacement of mainline jets with small jets (wholly owned or contract). The mainline jobs, along with the relative high QOL and job security, are going away. In turn, the SJ operators are coming in to undercut The Company.

Look at the growth experienced by ExpressJet, Mesa, Chautauqua, Shuttle America, Comair, ASA, Skywest, and Pinnacle (amongst others) in recent years. How much of that is new service, and how much is replacement? At US Airways, four fleet types have disappeared: 727, F100, DC9, MD80. The arrival of the Airbusi helped a bit, but there are many CRJ2s, CRJ7s, and ERJs used in their place. This is happening at CAL, DAL, NWA, and AA as well. So sure, there are pilots sleeping in their cars again, but many are doing so because they're furloughed.

Flying in the United system, I wish UAL management would come along with us. I'm sure the "high" ticket price has something to do with a shift in travel, but I also think the lower service level and smaller aircraft causes many passengers to choose another carrier "next time." In the dead of winter, hundreds of passengers each day have to walk through ice, snow, JetA, and deice fluid to board their aircraft. Walk across the tarmac to the AA gates, and you'll find folks using jetways and never getting their feet dirty. That impression lasts.

My hope is that the mainline / legacy carriers will bite the bullet, raise ticket prices by $20 each way, and bring back the narrow bodies to mainline. Park the RJs, except for the smaller markets that really cannot support a 737 or A319. Cut pay at the upper level, move corporate HQ somewhere less expensive, and bring back the loyal employee. It works at Southwest ... it can work at every other carrier.

/rant

[Bog]

Originally Posted by meyers9163

So if you had a choice where Regional would you try to get on with and why? Just wondering for anyone to answer..... Then what are the top regional carriers currently, I know a lot about Skywest, ASA, Chautauqua and ExpressJet but was wondering if there are others out there that are considered to be more "Top" notch.....

Again, hard to say. Comair has been somewhat of the leader of the regionals, but now DAL management is going to do everything they can to cut them down. Many of us at MAG realize we will start flying Delta for two reasons: (1) JO said he'd pay for the DOJets until a BK filing, and (2) we're a cheaper operation than Comair. So, six months ago I would have said Comair. But now ... the future isn't looking bright.

Again, it's hard to say. I will add my airline to the BOTTOM of the "get hired here" list. Stay away from GoJets too.

[Kingairer]

Originally Posted by Bog

At US Airways, four fleet types have disappeared: 727, F100, DC9, MD80. The arrival of the Airbusi helped a bit, but there are many CRJ2s, CRJ7s, and ERJs used in their place. This is happening at CAL, DAL, NWA, and AA as well. So sure, there are pilots sleeping in their cars again, but many are doing so because they're furloughed.

Bog I agree with what you are saying. Bad example though. USAir had F28s, F100s, DC9 and MD80, 7372/3/4, 727, 757,767, And Airbus all in recent history. This mutt fleet needed to be streamlined. Im not saying that RJs were the way to go, but parking some of these fleet types was a smart move in my book.

[Bog]

Originally Posted by Kingairer

This mutt fleet needed to be streamlined. Im not saying that RJs were the way to go, but parking some of these fleet types was a smart move in my book.

I agree completely, and going "all Airbus" helped. It cut costs, streamlined training and parts, and kept some jobs. But ... many of the U pilots are furloughed because RJs took their jobs. It's not the fault of the pilots. Maybe it's just the Walmartization of the airline industry.