Tab Express

primetime · May 13th, 2004, 17:40

Tab Express just sent 2 pilots to American Eagle with barely 500 hours, any other programs able to compete with that????

Cosmo1999 · May 13th, 2004, 18:09

Woop De doo. your not actually thinking of blowing all that cash just so you can say you got hired like a few months ahead of a CFI are you? I bet if you would pay just to get time in a Beech 1900 and wear a cool hat then you would probably also do this dance if they asked you do on command just to get an extra hour

Aviator737 · May 14th, 2004, 10:30

Yes, there are programs that beat that, without being icky pay-for-training.

Take the San Juan College/Mesa Pilot Development program in New Mexico. Barring being washed out and poor attitude/performance, you could fly for Mesa at 300 hours.

I believe FlightSafety is starting back up their direct-track ASA and Eagle programs. Not sure if those are PFT, however.

Or you could go overseas and fly 747s for JAL at about 300 hours.

wheelsup · June 8th, 2004, 22:05

Regional Airline Academy right next door in Deland placed more students at Colgan than Tab did during the last round of hirings...AND they had fewer hours (around 400-450).

.

~wheelsup

jonnyb · July 17th, 2004, 21:51

Absolutely unbelievable. 400 hour pilots flying around in RJ's.

That's enough to keep me off 'em. But then, what do I know.

Doug Taylor · July 18th, 2004, 09:47

[ QUOTE ]
Regional Airline Academy right next door in Deland placed more students at Colgan than Tab did during the last round of hirings...AND they had fewer hours (around 400-450).

.

~wheelsup

[/ QUOTE ]

Note to self, before I purchase a ticket on USAirways, make sure there are no segments on Colgan...

kellwolf · July 18th, 2004, 21:09

This has been re-hashed time and time again, but I still haven't gotten an answer that satisfies me yet. Everyone is always up in arms about a "300 hour pilot flying an RJ." I know CFIs with over 1000 hours have more experience dealing with weather, atc, and CRM factors. However, how are they better prepared to handle an a/c at those speeds? Another thing that gets me is that everyone acts as if BOTH pilots are 300 hour pilots. I know that a captain shouldn't be a teacher, but he does at least have SOME control over what goes on. If the pilot is a product of a well designed, focused program, and the result is he passes the same ground school and checkride as his 1000 hour CFI counterpart, what's the big deal? The US military has focused programs that have pilots defending the country in roughly 300 hours, yet you don't hear people complaining about that.

Mr_Creepy · July 19th, 2004, 07:23

Ok let me try this one.

I've flown with 300 hr FOs and I've flown with 12,000 hr captains. I've hit pretty much everything in between.

As far as technical flying skills, I saw good and bad pilots at both levels. The difference is that the 300hr pilots were willing to listen to "the old hack" and take some advice. For the most part the high time "bad" pilots were not interested in my opinion. They had learned bad habits and wanted to keep them!

Here's an example. In transport category aircraft, you frequently try to stay at altitude as long as possible, for many reasons, such as smooth air, fuel consumption, visibility, etc.

As a result, there is a maneuver which I call the "chop and drop." All of you have been in airliners before and probably experienced the sudden, weightless inducing maneuver that many pilots use to leave altitude.

In a 737 with autothrottles, for example, the easiest way to do this is to hit VS and flip the selector right to 2000fpm down.

I am not in favor of this maneuver in any aircraft. It practically puts the passengers on the ceiling. It certainly brings it to their attention that they are flying. My goal is a smooth flight that never brings it to the attention of the passengers that any maneuvers are being executed.

It is much more comfortable to slowly bring the throttles (power levers, thrust levers, insert PC title here) back to idle and let the nose drop gradually.

In the 737 I would dial in 200fpm first, then 300, then 500, then 700 etc. The throttles would inch back and I would be at a 2000fpm descent in about 15 seconds as opposed to instantly.

Much more comfortable and much less noticable.

Low time pilots were willing to listen. The high timers who "chopped and dropped" just plain didn't care.

OK now this is all about technical skills. As far as judgement, experience with weather, and "flying savvy" then it's a completely different story. I would rather fly with the 12,000 hr guy any day. They may bounce me around but they have a history of making it home safely and in one piece.

They were also 100% better on the radio.

Sorry about the long post.

jonnyb · July 19th, 2004, 17:40

You're right Kellwolf, a 1000 hour CFI isn't much more comforting.

The fact is, everyone has to start somewhere. It just shouldn't be in an RJ. Beech 1900 is more like it.

kellwolf · July 19th, 2004, 18:57

[ QUOTE ]
It just shouldn't be in an RJ. Beech 1900 is more like it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Beech, RJ, Dash....I'll take anything. I'm not choosy.

jonnyb · July 19th, 2004, 19:13

That's a great attitude. Besides learning a lot, turbo-props are a blast!

Tim · July 20th, 2004, 08:18

I had a friend who fly EMB-120's that if you want to work while flying then fly the Brasilia if not fly the RJ. He said in the 120 something is always have to be monitered or moving and in the RJ is all right there in front of you for the computer to watch

jonnyb · July 20th, 2004, 12:13

I think I understood that...???

kellwolf · July 20th, 2004, 22:22

Yeah, looks like Tim's having a better night than I am. How exactly are the bars in ATL?

Tim · July 21st, 2004, 12:35

Plenty of cold beverages here.

Doug Taylor · July 21st, 2004, 13:45

All your base are belong to us?

Mr_Creepy · July 21st, 2004, 15:14

"Somebody set us up the bomb"

Bog · September 12th, 2004, 20:36

[ QUOTE ]
I know that a captain shouldn't be a teacher, but he does at least have SOME control over what goes on.

[/ QUOTE ]

Try sitting across from a "300 hour wonder" when it's night, it's stormy, and homebrew is still doing the after takeoff checklists an hour later. No-one should feel like they're single pilot in an RJ, especially with 88 people behind you. Not a fun feeling.

kellwolf · September 12th, 2004, 21:23

[ QUOTE ]
Try sitting across from a "300 hour wonder" when it's night, it's stormy, and homebrew is still doing the after takeoff checklists an hour later. No-one should feel like they're single pilot in an RJ, especially with 88 people behind you. Not a fun feeling.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sounds to me like said FO should be sent to his room at the hotel to chair fly......

Bog · September 13th, 2004, 04:41

[ QUOTE ]
Sounds to me like said FO should be sent to his room at the hotel to chair fly......

[/ QUOTE ]

Chair flying won't help when the radar is painting red everywhere and the lightning is burning your retinas. Besides, goodness knows that I was never a newbie, inexperienced pilot. I was born into greatness.

Stop laughing!!! My therapist said I need to work on my self-esteem issues ... [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/spin2.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/spin2.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/spin2.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/spin2.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/spin2.gif[/img]

Doug Taylor · September 13th, 2004, 12:09

Just turn the tilt up!

Ignorance is bliss, my friend.

kellwolf · September 13th, 2004, 17:08

[ QUOTE ]
Chair flying won't help when the radar is painting red everywhere and the lightning is burning your retinas.

[/ QUOTE ]

Send him to FL in the summer time with no radar. That'll fix 'em! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

playin_the_skys · September 14th, 2004, 01:44

A POST FOR TAB EXPRESSer's

Tab Express told me that they just got their 121 cert, now they can get their airline running, I contacted the FAA Orlando FSDO and only one of their three beech-1900's are 135 cert. The 135 cert for the 1900 is new. What kind of BS are they feeding people over there? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

moxiepilot · September 14th, 2004, 10:20

[ QUOTE ]
A POST FOR TAB EXPRESSer's

Tab Express told me that they just got their 121 cert, now they can get their airline running, I contacted the FAA Orlando FSDO and only one of their three beech-1900's are 135 cert. The 135 cert for the 1900 is new. What kind of BS are they feeding people over there? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

They told me they got their 135 cert - not their 121. Perhaps you talked with someone who was confused and are overreacting a bit. People make mistakes you know.

playin_the_skys · September 14th, 2004, 23:54

I know people make mistakes, I just remembered the 121 because it really stood out. Different from other places. So I just checked up on it.

May 13th, 2004, 17:40	#1
primetime Newbie Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Daytona Beach, Florida Posts: 6	Tab Express Tab Express just sent 2 pilots to American Eagle with barely 500 hours, any other programs able to compete with that????

May 13th, 2004, 18:09	#2
Cosmo1999 Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 247	Re: Tab Express Woop De doo. your not actually thinking of blowing all that cash just so you can say you got hired like a few months ahead of a CFI are you? I bet if you would pay just to get time in a Beech 1900 and wear a cool hat then you would probably also do this dance if they asked you do on command just to get an extra hour

May 14th, 2004, 10:30	#3
Aviator737 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Oregon Posts: 376	Re: Tab Express Yes, there are programs that beat that, without being icky pay-for-training. Take the San Juan College/Mesa Pilot Development program in New Mexico. Barring being washed out and poor attitude/performance, you could fly for Mesa at 300 hours. I believe FlightSafety is starting back up their direct-track ASA and Eagle programs. Not sure if those are PFT, however. Or you could go overseas and fly 747s for JAL at about 300 hours.

June 8th, 2004, 22:05	#4
wheelsup Old Skool Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: _ Posts: 5,178	Re: Tab Express Regional Airline Academy right next door in Deland placed more students at Colgan than Tab did during the last round of hirings...AND they had fewer hours (around 400-450). . ~wheelsup

July 17th, 2004, 21:51	#5
jonnyb Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: So. California Posts: 1,304	Re: Tab Express Absolutely unbelievable. 400 hour pilots flying around in RJ's. That's enough to keep me off 'em. But then, what do I know.

July 18th, 2004, 09:47	#6
Doug Taylor Agent Smith Join Date: Dec 1969 Location: KSDL Posts: 39,749 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Tab Express [ QUOTE ] Regional Airline Academy right next door in Deland placed more students at Colgan than Tab did during the last round of hirings...AND they had fewer hours (around 400-450). . ~wheelsup [/ QUOTE ] Note to self, before I purchase a ticket on USAirways, make sure there are no segments on Colgan...

July 18th, 2004, 21:09	#7
kellwolf Old Skool Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Memphis, TN Posts: 13,208	Re: Tab Express This has been re-hashed time and time again, but I still haven't gotten an answer that satisfies me yet. Everyone is always up in arms about a "300 hour pilot flying an RJ." I know CFIs with over 1000 hours have more experience dealing with weather, atc, and CRM factors. However, how are they better prepared to handle an a/c at those speeds? Another thing that gets me is that everyone acts as if BOTH pilots are 300 hour pilots. I know that a captain shouldn't be a teacher, but he does at least have SOME control over what goes on. If the pilot is a product of a well designed, focused program, and the result is he passes the same ground school and checkride as his 1000 hour CFI counterpart, what's the big deal? The US military has focused programs that have pilots defending the country in roughly 300 hours, yet you don't hear people complaining about that.

July 19th, 2004, 07:23	#8
Mr_Creepy Old Skool Join Date: May 2003 Location: In the O-zone Posts: 5,807	Re: Tab Express Ok let me try this one. I've flown with 300 hr FOs and I've flown with 12,000 hr captains. I've hit pretty much everything in between. As far as technical flying skills, I saw good and bad pilots at both levels. The difference is that the 300hr pilots were willing to listen to "the old hack" and take some advice. For the most part the high time "bad" pilots were not interested in my opinion. They had learned bad habits and wanted to keep them! Here's an example. In transport category aircraft, you frequently try to stay at altitude as long as possible, for many reasons, such as smooth air, fuel consumption, visibility, etc. As a result, there is a maneuver which I call the "chop and drop." All of you have been in airliners before and probably experienced the sudden, weightless inducing maneuver that many pilots use to leave altitude. In a 737 with autothrottles, for example, the easiest way to do this is to hit VS and flip the selector right to 2000fpm down. I am not in favor of this maneuver in any aircraft. It practically puts the passengers on the ceiling. It certainly brings it to their attention that they are flying. My goal is a smooth flight that never brings it to the attention of the passengers that any maneuvers are being executed. It is much more comfortable to slowly bring the throttles (power levers, thrust levers, insert PC title here) back to idle and let the nose drop gradually. In the 737 I would dial in 200fpm first, then 300, then 500, then 700 etc. The throttles would inch back and I would be at a 2000fpm descent in about 15 seconds as opposed to instantly. Much more comfortable and much less noticable. Low time pilots were willing to listen. The high timers who "chopped and dropped" just plain didn't care. OK now this is all about technical skills. As far as judgement, experience with weather, and "flying savvy" then it's a completely different story. I would rather fly with the 12,000 hr guy any day. They may bounce me around but they have a history of making it home safely and in one piece. They were also 100% better on the radio. Sorry about the long post.

July 19th, 2004, 17:40	#9
jonnyb Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: So. California Posts: 1,304	Re: Tab Express You're right Kellwolf, a 1000 hour CFI isn't much more comforting. The fact is, everyone has to start somewhere. It just shouldn't be in an RJ. Beech 1900 is more like it.

July 19th, 2004, 18:57	#10
kellwolf Old Skool Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Memphis, TN Posts: 13,208	Re: Tab Express [ QUOTE ] It just shouldn't be in an RJ. Beech 1900 is more like it. [/ QUOTE ] Beech, RJ, Dash....I'll take anything. I'm not choosy.

July 19th, 2004, 19:13	#11
jonnyb Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: So. California Posts: 1,304	Re: Tab Express That's a great attitude. Besides learning a lot, turbo-props are a blast!

July 20th, 2004, 08:18	#12
Tim Old Skool Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Atlanta Posts: 2,205	Re: Tab Express I had a friend who fly EMB-120's that if you want to work while flying then fly the Brasilia if not fly the RJ. He said in the 120 something is always have to be monitered or moving and in the RJ is all right there in front of you for the computer to watch

July 20th, 2004, 12:13	#13
jonnyb Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: So. California Posts: 1,304	Re: Tab Express I think I understood that...???

July 20th, 2004, 22:22	#14
kellwolf Old Skool Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Memphis, TN Posts: 13,208	Re: Tab Express Yeah, looks like Tim's having a better night than I am. How exactly are the bars in ATL?

July 21st, 2004, 12:35	#15
Tim Old Skool Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Atlanta Posts: 2,205	Re: Tab Express Plenty of cold beverages here.

July 21st, 2004, 13:45	#16
Doug Taylor Agent Smith Join Date: Dec 1969 Location: KSDL Posts: 39,749 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Tab Express All your base are belong to us?

July 21st, 2004, 15:14	#17
Mr_Creepy Old Skool Join Date: May 2003 Location: In the O-zone Posts: 5,807	Re: Tab Express "Somebody set us up the bomb"

September 12th, 2004, 20:36	#18
Bog Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 1,152	Re: Tab Express [ QUOTE ] I know that a captain shouldn't be a teacher, but he does at least have SOME control over what goes on. [/ QUOTE ] Try sitting across from a "300 hour wonder" when it's night, it's stormy, and homebrew is still doing the after takeoff checklists an hour later. No-one should feel like they're single pilot in an RJ, especially with 88 people behind you. Not a fun feeling.

September 12th, 2004, 21:23	#19
kellwolf Old Skool Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Memphis, TN Posts: 13,208	Re: Tab Express [ QUOTE ] Try sitting across from a "300 hour wonder" when it's night, it's stormy, and homebrew is still doing the after takeoff checklists an hour later. No-one should feel like they're single pilot in an RJ, especially with 88 people behind you. Not a fun feeling. [/ QUOTE ] Sounds to me like said FO should be sent to his room at the hotel to chair fly......

September 13th, 2004, 04:41	#20
Bog Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 1,152	Re: Tab Express [ QUOTE ] Sounds to me like said FO should be sent to his room at the hotel to chair fly...... [/ QUOTE ] Chair flying won't help when the radar is painting red everywhere and the lightning is burning your retinas. Besides, goodness knows that I was never a newbie, inexperienced pilot. I was born into greatness. Stop laughing!!! My therapist said I need to work on my self-esteem issues ... [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/spin2.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/spin2.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/spin2.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/spin2.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/spin2.gif[/img]

September 13th, 2004, 12:09	#21
Doug Taylor Agent Smith Join Date: Dec 1969 Location: KSDL Posts: 39,749 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Tab Express Just turn the tilt up! Ignorance is bliss, my friend.

September 13th, 2004, 17:08	#22
kellwolf Old Skool Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Memphis, TN Posts: 13,208	Re: Tab Express [ QUOTE ] Chair flying won't help when the radar is painting red everywhere and the lightning is burning your retinas. [/ QUOTE ] Send him to FL in the summer time with no radar. That'll fix 'em! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

September 14th, 2004, 01:44	#23
playin_the_skys Newbie Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 23	Re: Tab Express A POST FOR TAB EXPRESSer's Tab Express told me that they just got their 121 cert, now they can get their airline running, I contacted the FAA Orlando FSDO and only one of their three beech-1900's are 135 cert. The 135 cert for the 1900 is new. What kind of BS are they feeding people over there? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

September 14th, 2004, 10:20	#24
moxiepilot Old Skool Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: CFI / CFII in PA Posts: 2,549	Re: Tab Express [ QUOTE ] A POST FOR TAB EXPRESSer's Tab Express told me that they just got their 121 cert, now they can get their airline running, I contacted the FAA Orlando FSDO and only one of their three beech-1900's are 135 cert. The 135 cert for the 1900 is new. What kind of BS are they feeding people over there? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [/ QUOTE ] They told me they got their 135 cert - not their 121. Perhaps you talked with someone who was confused and are overreacting a bit. People make mistakes you know.

September 14th, 2004, 23:54	#25
playin_the_skys Newbie Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 23	Re: Tab Express I know people make mistakes, I just remembered the 121 because it really stood out. Different from other places. So I just checked up on it.

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