Current or former students?

[n2o2diver]

Are there any current or former students from this school?
Could you post your views of this school.
Anyone completed the program and gotten a job with 375 hrs?

[n2o2diver]

Come on, not 1 student current or former has anything to say?

I hope this isn't a case of, if you have nothing nice to say don't say anything.

Please comment positive or negative!

[Dan]

n2o2..

Are you looking at this school for training ??

Dan

[n2o2diver]

Im intrested!

[Dan]

I'm hoping to visit them around the 3rd week in July. I spent about 30 mins or so on the phone the other day with Steve D. plus I've had some support from other readers concerning this place so we'll see.

Dan

[ananoman]

The thing about this school that scares me it their ad. "We want you...and the regional airlines will want you." Should probably read, "We want your money....and in a few years after you have over 1000 hours, the Regionals will want you, maybe." They list American Eagle at the bottom of their ad. As far as I know, Eagle is not hiring. I don't see any other regional hiring someone directly out of this program, no matter how much Sim and CBT training they have. 100 hrs of King Air would be nice, but your CFI, CFII, and MEI would be more useful. A traditional flight training program will better prepare you for instructing in light planes. This is the first flying job you are most likely to have.

A few years ago, this program might have been an option. Today, things are different. Why spend weeks learning 737 and Beech 1900 stuff when you will not be flying one for several years, if ever. By the time you make it to the Regionals, you will have forgotten alot of what you learned. Unless you know someone who will hire you to fly their King Air as SIC after you graduate, I don't see any reason to go there.

[Mr_Creepy]

They really need to update their ads, then. They are working directly with a couple of BE1900 airlines right now (not Gulfstream!!!)

But I appreciate that reality check at the end. Even with 1000 hrs I don't think any regional is going to "want" you

What they "want" is the product, not a person. They want the result of the training. It's important to remember that these ab initio deals only work when you stay with the group. If you go off on your own you no longer have any value and in fact you lower the value of the rest of the group. Do not call up chief pilots and try to make your own deal!

[Vaid]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm hoping to visit them around the 3rd week in July. I spent about 30 mins or so on the phone the other day with Steve D.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve D. is the former ATA "SALES REP" (who ........, Don't even wanna go there), I checked out the school few months ago, Nice King air 90s but; you get about 360 TT hrs
around 160 in the Kin air, and you do most of the training in the Level 6 Sims which aren't that great(with 4 TVs aound you instead of Proj), and you end up paying 64K.
I also heard a lot(Nothing good) about Tabexpress from other schools which I never heard about ATA.

Good luck!

P.S. I did my homework before I gave 75k to ATA, but i guess I didn't do a good job!

[Mr_Creepy]

Since the Airstage II program costs $45k in toto, why did you give ATA an extra $30k?

[Vaid]

55k for ATP program and 25k for my Living expenses

[Mr_Creepy]

Well that adds up to 80k doesn't it?

Your living expense was confiscated by your lawyers. The lawyers representing the "students" confiscated that account from Key Bank and is using it as a "retainer."

I may be wrong but I'm pretty sure the ATP program did not require all the money up front. I know if you took airstage II you had to pay the whole $45k.

[aloft]

[ QUOTE ]
What they "want" is the product, not a person. They want the result of the training. It's important to remember that these ab initio deals only work when you stay with the group. If you go off on your own you no longer have any value and in fact you lower the value of the rest of the group. Do not call up chief pilots and try to make your own deal!


[/ QUOTE ]
What the hell are you babbling about?

[Mr_Creepy]

[ QUOTE ]
What the hell are you babbling about?

[/ QUOTE ]

Is this a friendly, non-inflammatory request? I don't think so!

At ATA several "pilots" ruined relationships we had developed with airlines by calling on their own after being instructed several times not to. The airlines are not interested in 300 hr pilots individually. They are interested in a group of pre-trained, ab initio pilots who are a product of a particular program.

[/babble]

[Vaid]

$20k living expenses.
The ATP program was $65k, they had $10k discount for people who register before FEB 28th.
I got 75k from key on feb 20th (55,700.00 cost of the program), Key sent two payments to ATA on 21th and 24th ($37,500.00 each).

[Mr_Creepy]

Vaid I'm really trying to make sense of your figures. I must be missing something.

ok I see that 65k - 10k discount + 20k living = $75k. I check you there.

But where does the $55,700 com from?

By the way check with Key's attorneys and I believe you will find out that all they did was "transfer" the money in to an ATA account which was later closed and confiscated by a court order. The majority of the money that you sent in was included in that court order and is now being held as a "retainer" by the various attorneys involved in this case.

It seems criminal that they can hold money earmarked for living expenses!

A really, really bad deal. The only people who will make any money at all out of this tragedy is the lawyers.

I understand all the Williams filed Chapter 7 bankruptcy. I haven't read chapter 7 thoroughly but I understand it basically means "dead broke."

Are you also a member of CAP Flying? I think you flew with one of my students last weekend (John.)

[Vaid]

I should of explained better; there was $200 admission fee and $500 for one on one ground instruction.( At the time I was a full time student at UCF and unable to attend all the ground schools)


About your comment on my living expenses(20k); Key bank is holding me responsible for the $75,000.00, and $20000.00 does not make a difference to me when I can't even make one payment on the loan.

And yes I did fly with one of your students.

[n2o2diver]

Well this forum went nowhere !

[Mr_Creepy]

Yeah it turned into a "I got screwed by ATA" thread didn't it

[n2o2diver]

Yeah, i flush the Idea of this school anyway!!!

[kellwolf]

[ QUOTE ]
I understand all the Williams filed Chapter 7 bankruptcy. I haven't read chapter 7 thoroughly but I understand it basically means "dead broke."

[/ QUOTE ]

Pretty much. As a person that actually had to file CH 7 last year (wife got laid off TWICE in one year, and I was working at Sea World for peanuts), I would not recommend it. I WANTED to go to ERAU, but now I can't get any kind of loan under the sun. The sad thing is, I don't see HOW the Williams had to resort to CH 7 when they had all that money from the students. There are even a couple of old ATA 172s on E-bay (Great trainer it says!).

[ QUOTE ]
Are you also a member of CAP Flying? I think you flew with one of my students last weekend (John.)

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll probably be in that group next month. A friend of mine has been flying their planes, and they seem pretty well maintained. I like the 172R, and I want to get checked out in the Arrow, too. Might even try to get my Multi over there.

[Mr_Creepy]

[ QUOTE ]
The sad thing is, I don't see HOW the Williams had to resort to CH 7 when they had all that money from the students.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think I covered this under the ATA thread but the Williams' had no money left, else they would have kept the business open. They had a huge stack of bills to pay, and even though they paid more than half, they are now "dead broke."

"All that money from the students."

Let's see, there were four new students since Jan 1, and they put up a total of $165,000 - much of which was in a housing fund which the student's lawyers "confiscated" to use as a "retainer."

The news article says the judge turned over the $107,000 in the Key Housing Fund to the student's attorneys for "safe keeping."

Don't make me laugh.

[kellwolf]

Even though this either belongs in the ATA forum or Squawk Box, I have to say something here....

[ QUOTE ]
I think I covered this under the ATA thread but the Williams' had no money left, else they would have kept the business open. They had a huge stack of bills to pay, and even though they paid more than half, they are now "dead broke."

[/ QUOTE ]

Sounds to me like the did a very poor job of separating personal finance from business finance. If the school was going under (or Discover Air was dragging it under), let it go. I'm sure the students would have appreciated a little honesty and MAYBE some $$$ back instead of what they got.

[ QUOTE ]
Let's see, there were four new students since Jan 1, and they put up a total of $165,000 - much of which was in a housing fund which the student's lawyers "confiscated" to use as a "retainer."

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd like to see where this info came from. I have several friends that were going there (and I considered it myself), and according to them new classes started every month until they closed the doors. Three of my friends have had their finances ruined, and at least one of them has given up an pilot career altogether. One was finished and waiting on an interview, and two were in Airstage II. Both of the Airstage II guys would at least like to know how their money was spent. As for me, I'm basically just angry that my friends were screwed over, but as we all know only lawyers make money in class action suites....

[Mr_Creepy]

There were several people that did not get all that was promised to them. I know you may argue with me here, but there are also several that are really exaggerating how much they lost.

There was a large class in December, but things got really bad in Jan and Feb. The personal finances really had nothing to do with it, it was just the expense of running an operation like ATA with no new money coming in.

There was not enough flow through (pilots going to airlines) to generate a positive cash flow. This was a result in part of 9-11, and also in part of some other problems.

Several "agreements" that ATA had with airlines were ruined by students calling the airline directly and trying to make their own deals. Sometimes pilots can be their own worst enemies.

At any rate, the common belief that the Williams' "fleeced" a bunch of students and ran off with their money is just not true. The only group of people who is making out of this deal are the lawyers, and they are making out like bandits.

[shooter13]

So the claims some have made that they signed up at ATA the week before the doors were closed are untrue then???

[Mr_Creepy]

Not untrue, but greatly exaggerated. There were a few students who showed up that week.

For example, one young lady was interviewed right after the shutdown, claiming she had lost $45k. About a month later she was interviewed by the Orlando Slantinel and said she had $60k taken from her. A few months later another interview with the same rag and it was up to $75k!!!

My question, "Why is she still giving money to a closed company?"

Now this young lady DID receive her commercial multi with instrument rating. Admittedly she paid for more but she received something for her money.

Now I also heard and have not yet confirmed, that 3 new students borrowed about $60k each from Key Loans and signed up with ATA the monday before Black Thursday. They were claiming that the Williams' ran off with their money but it has now been disclosed that this money never got to the company, but in fact was part of the "escrow" money that the judge awarded to the lawyers.

They still have to pay the loan, which seems entirely not right.