Response to M Roland - Page 2

kellwolf · September 14th, 2003, 22:42

[ QUOTE ]
Of all the companies ATA advertised they had deals with to get their graduates interviews and jobs with, Discover Air was not mentioned in the literature as one of them

[/ QUOTE ]

While I agree that ATA did not have to most ethical business practices, they DID mention Discover air as an option if Eagle or ASA did not take you. That was pressed on me at least three times when I was looking into going there. When ASA pulled out, they even added the Discover Air logo to the bottom of their web site.

I narrowly dodged the bullet on this, and two of my best friends got seriously burned. One is in Mesa's PACE program in Farmington, NM now, and the other is working 60-70 hours a week with me to pay off his student loans. The second guy did get all the way through ASII and was just waiting on the interview. I think he did his RJ training with Dave Gwinn, and he said he learned a TON from him. He also said the program started to go downhill when Gwinn left.

Mr_Creepy · September 15th, 2003, 06:53

Instructor board meetings! LOL no I was not involved in the business

And yes, ATA stopped mentioning Discover in their ads after that funneling stopped. I was never told why, in fact I came in after all that stopped.

Dave DeBerry would have "board meetings" for all the instructors where we could (and did) ask questions about anything we wanted. Rob Williams attended almost all of these and he was very open with details.

He told us that the Discover thing did not work out anywhere near as planned, and you could tell it upset him. I think he felt pretty used by the whole Discover Air idea.

I can understand that insurance premium upsetting you, but remember that liability extends across corporate lines nowadays, and I'm sure you would have paid an insurance premium under those circumstances, too

Reflecting on the actions taken, that may have been the smartest move Melissa made.

M_Roland · September 15th, 2003, 13:28

John Tenney Quote
_________________________________________________
liability extends across corporate lines nowadays
_________________________________________________
I have no idea what you mean. In all the courses I took, every corporation was a separate entity and co-mingling of funds was a no-no.

I got the distinct impression at the ATA Bankruptcy Creditors Meeting 5/12/03 that the Bankruptcy Trustee and the lawyers for the various creditors all felt taking money from one corporation and paying another corporation's bills with it is extremely illegal. Based on the efforts Melissa made to avoid admitting that's what had taken place and her demeanor when they finally trapped her into admitting it, she must have thought it was, too.

I have been warned that, perhaps friends and cohorts of the Williams are making these outrageous statements merely to inflame us enough, that in our rebuttal, we might release information the Williams had not previously known we knew. And, I'm embarrassed to say, it may have been working. However, it will no longer work on me. I will not be refuting any more of these totally inaccurate claims, no matter how ridiculous.

ready2fly · September 15th, 2003, 14:06

[ QUOTE ]
I have been warned that, perhaps friends and cohorts of the Williams are making these outrageous statements merely to inflame us enough, that in our rebuttal, we might release information the Williams had not previously known we knew. And, I'm embarrassed to say, it may have been working. However, it will no longer work on me. I will not be refuting any more of these totally inaccurate claims, no matter how ridiculous.

[/ QUOTE ]
M_Roland - probably a very wise idea considering that the person whose claims you are having to refute is a close, personal friend of the Williams' and was once in their employee.

99.99999% (meaning - all but one individual) on this site, wishes you and all those who got bent over and violated by ATA and/or the Williams' - only the VERY best!!!

Remember - there are no "moral victories". Be ruthless. Go for the jugular. It's your families financial well-being you are talking about.

Only the best!!!

R2F

AnotherWife · September 15th, 2003, 14:34

[ QUOTE ]
99.99999% (meaning - all but one individual) on this site, wishes you and all those who got bent over and violated by ATA and/or the Williams' - only the VERY best!!!

[/ QUOTE ]
Thanks, R2F. That really does mean a lot to us!

ready2fly · September 15th, 2003, 14:40

<shrugs.. kicks at sand> Sure sure.... I aim to please.

hammer · September 15th, 2003, 15:07

[ QUOTE ]

I can understand that insurance premium upsetting you, but remember that liability extends across corporate lines nowadays, and I'm sure you would have paid an insurance premium under those circumstances, too

Reflecting on the actions taken, that may have been the smartest move Melissa made.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, it sure was a relief to me to know that the bankrupt ATA, with it's locked doors and hundreds upon hundreds of shocked students and employees left with nowhere to go, was still able to drop a paltry hundred grand to keep Discover's insurance policy in effect for another month.

It'd be interesting to get the opinion of the numerous students that had tens of thousands of dollars for PERSONAL LIVING EXPENSES wired to ATA the week they closed shop. They of course never saw a dime out but do still get to repay the loan. I'm sure deep down they were much more interested in seeing that money go to Discover instead of paying for apartment rent, food, car loans, etc.

Mr_Creepy · September 15th, 2003, 15:25

R2F you are getting surly. It certain seems you are displaying hostility towards me, yet in PMs you said recently that we would have a truce.

Do you stick by your word?

shooter13 · September 15th, 2003, 20:29

You guys PM each other about a truce? How lame. I think there is hostility toward you here John because you are friends with some people who were key figures in screwing over a lot of people.

Mr_Creepy · September 15th, 2003, 21:01

I wouldn't call them friends. As I said before I knew none of them socially.

I am not saying anything good about the rest of the Williams' because I hardly knew them. I worked with Rob every day and Melissa some, and I think they would have done things much differently if they could have.

No one here wants to hear anything good about anyone named Williams, however.

hammer · September 15th, 2003, 22:34

[ QUOTE ]
\I think they would have done things much differently if they could have.
\

[/ QUOTE ]

What do you mean by "if they could have?"

AnotherWife · September 16th, 2003, 07:24

[ QUOTE ]
No one here wants to hear anything good about anyone named Williams, however.

[/ QUOTE ] I understand Jason Williams, the X-NBA star, got his trial postponed. (He is accused of killed a limo driver in New Jersey.) So having the trial postponed is a good thing.

Oh, you meant the ATA Williams family? Yeah, nobody cares to hear anything good about them so you should probably just stop.

ready2fly · September 16th, 2003, 08:05

[ QUOTE ]
R2F you are getting surly. It certain seems you are displaying hostility towards me, yet in PMs you said recently that we would have a truce.

Do you stick by your word?

[/ QUOTE ]
A few things:

1. No surliness here, John...just calling them as I see them. You are being relentless in your pursuit of a defense for those who are perceived to have swindled a lot of people. In doing so, seems to me that you are coming across as the hostile one. I see it.....Apparently I'm not the only one.

Do the Williams' deserve a defense - absolutely. But so do those who are out their tuitions/living expenses. The road goes both ways.

2. I'm not "displaying hostility towards" you. When someone disagrees with you, please understand that does not constitute an attack. I just don't agree with you and I'm exercising my right to express that.

However you perceive that is your issue. Not mine. You'll note the total lack of (!!!) exclamation points; (

) frowny faces, all-caps or otherwise.

I respect your right to your opinion. I don't agree with it (or most of anything you say) but, that's my right too. Please respect that as well.

3. The word "truce" was never mentioned, so as far as "keeping my word" - I've never broken it. I've not directed any of my posts to you. I've not tried to pick a fight with you, nor do I intend to.

I said I'd leave you alone and I've bitten my tongue on several occasions. But, if you call me out - as you just did - then I am obliged to respond.

To everyone - and to JT - when you put yourself out there and express strong opinions based on "fact" or otherwise - do not be suprised and do not get upset when you get bombarded with dissenting opinions.

If I disagree with anyone on this board, it doesn't mean I'm "evil", "hostile" or "surly" - it means I disagree. Period.

I think we can agree to that.

R2F

shooter13 · September 16th, 2003, 08:40

[ QUOTE ]
I think we can agree to that.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree.

Eagle · September 16th, 2003, 08:49

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think we can agree to that.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree.

[/ QUOTE ]

heheheheheheheh

ready2fly · September 16th, 2003, 09:39

shooter13 · September 19th, 2003, 08:29

This thread was providing so much entertainment. Can't someone get it going again???

I'll try...

The William's smell bad! You'd think with all the money they stole they could buy deodorant.

AnotherWife · September 19th, 2003, 09:01

I'm not sure this thread has any legs without JT around, and he's been noticibly absent the past several days.

Anyone care to guess where he's been?

My guess is he's finally seen the light about the Williams' misdeeds, has turned state's evidence, and is now in the witness protection program.

EatSleepFly · September 19th, 2003, 11:04

[ QUOTE ]
Anyone care to guess where he's been?

[/ QUOTE ]

Now Eagle, what have you done with JT?

Eagle · September 19th, 2003, 11:31

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Anyone care to guess where he's been?

[/ QUOTE ]

Now Eagle, what have you done with JT?

[/ QUOTE ]

Not me

But I suspect.....

ready2fly · September 19th, 2003, 11:33

LMAO!!!

September 14th, 2003, 22:42	#26
kellwolf Old Skool Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Memphis, TN Posts: 13,870	Re: Money to Discover Air [ QUOTE ] Of all the companies ATA advertised they had deals with to get their graduates interviews and jobs with, Discover Air was not mentioned in the literature as one of them [/ QUOTE ] While I agree that ATA did not have to most ethical business practices, they DID mention Discover air as an option if Eagle or ASA did not take you. That was pressed on me at least three times when I was looking into going there. When ASA pulled out, they even added the Discover Air logo to the bottom of their web site. I narrowly dodged the bullet on this, and two of my best friends got seriously burned. One is in Mesa's PACE program in Farmington, NM now, and the other is working 60-70 hours a week with me to pay off his student loans. The second guy did get all the way through ASII and was just waiting on the interview. I think he did his RJ training with Dave Gwinn, and he said he learned a TON from him. He also said the program started to go downhill when Gwinn left.

September 15th, 2003, 06:53	#27
Mr_Creepy Old Skool Join Date: May 2003 Location: In the O-zone Posts: 5,810	Re: Money to Discover Air Instructor board meetings! LOL no I was not involved in the business And yes, ATA stopped mentioning Discover in their ads after that funneling stopped. I was never told why, in fact I came in after all that stopped. Dave DeBerry would have "board meetings" for all the instructors where we could (and did) ask questions about anything we wanted. Rob Williams attended almost all of these and he was very open with details. He told us that the Discover thing did not work out anywhere near as planned, and you could tell it upset him. I think he felt pretty used by the whole Discover Air idea. I can understand that insurance premium upsetting you, but remember that liability extends across corporate lines nowadays, and I'm sure you would have paid an insurance premium under those circumstances, too Reflecting on the actions taken, that may have been the smartest move Melissa made.

September 15th, 2003, 13:28	#28
M_Roland Newbie Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 16	Re: Money to Discover Air John Tenney Quote _________________________________________________ liability extends across corporate lines nowadays _________________________________________________ I have no idea what you mean. In all the courses I took, every corporation was a separate entity and co-mingling of funds was a no-no. I got the distinct impression at the ATA Bankruptcy Creditors Meeting 5/12/03 that the Bankruptcy Trustee and the lawyers for the various creditors all felt taking money from one corporation and paying another corporation's bills with it is extremely illegal. Based on the efforts Melissa made to avoid admitting that's what had taken place and her demeanor when they finally trapped her into admitting it, she must have thought it was, too. I have been warned that, perhaps friends and cohorts of the Williams are making these outrageous statements merely to inflame us enough, that in our rebuttal, we might release information the Williams had not previously known we knew. And, I'm embarrassed to say, it may have been working. However, it will no longer work on me. I will not be refuting any more of these totally inaccurate claims, no matter how ridiculous.

September 15th, 2003, 14:06	#29
ready2fly Old Skool Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: DFW Posts: 7,182	Re: Money to Discover Air [ QUOTE ] I have been warned that, perhaps friends and cohorts of the Williams are making these outrageous statements merely to inflame us enough, that in our rebuttal, we might release information the Williams had not previously known we knew. And, I'm embarrassed to say, it may have been working. However, it will no longer work on me. I will not be refuting any more of these totally inaccurate claims, no matter how ridiculous. [/ QUOTE ] M_Roland - probably a very wise idea considering that the person whose claims you are having to refute is a close, personal friend of the Williams' and was once in their employee. 99.99999% (meaning - all but one individual) on this site, wishes you and all those who got bent over and violated by ATA and/or the Williams' - only the VERY best!!! Remember - there are no "moral victories". Be ruthless. Go for the jugular. It's your families financial well-being you are talking about. Only the best!!! R2F

September 15th, 2003, 14:34	#30
AnotherWife Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Evergreen, Colorado Posts: 121	Re: Money to Discover Air [ QUOTE ] 99.99999% (meaning - all but one individual) on this site, wishes you and all those who got bent over and violated by ATA and/or the Williams' - only the VERY best!!! [/ QUOTE ] Thanks, R2F. That really does mean a lot to us!

September 15th, 2003, 14:40	#31
ready2fly Old Skool Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: DFW Posts: 7,182	Re: Money to Discover Air <shrugs.. kicks at sand> Sure sure.... I aim to please.

September 15th, 2003, 15:07	#32
hammer Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Orange County, California Posts: 200	Re: Money to Discover Air [ QUOTE ] I can understand that insurance premium upsetting you, but remember that liability extends across corporate lines nowadays, and I'm sure you would have paid an insurance premium under those circumstances, too Reflecting on the actions taken, that may have been the smartest move Melissa made. [/ QUOTE ] Yeah, it sure was a relief to me to know that the bankrupt ATA, with it's locked doors and hundreds upon hundreds of shocked students and employees left with nowhere to go, was still able to drop a paltry hundred grand to keep Discover's insurance policy in effect for another month. It'd be interesting to get the opinion of the numerous students that had tens of thousands of dollars for PERSONAL LIVING EXPENSES wired to ATA the week they closed shop. They of course never saw a dime out but do still get to repay the loan. I'm sure deep down they were much more interested in seeing that money go to Discover instead of paying for apartment rent, food, car loans, etc.

September 15th, 2003, 15:25	#33
Mr_Creepy Old Skool Join Date: May 2003 Location: In the O-zone Posts: 5,810	Re: Money to Discover Air R2F you are getting surly. It certain seems you are displaying hostility towards me, yet in PMs you said recently that we would have a truce. Do you stick by your word?

September 15th, 2003, 20:29	#34
shooter13 Old Skool Join Date: May 2002 Location: South Carolina Posts: 1,952	Re: Money to Discover Air You guys PM each other about a truce? How lame. I think there is hostility toward you here John because you are friends with some people who were key figures in screwing over a lot of people.

September 15th, 2003, 21:01	#35
Mr_Creepy Old Skool Join Date: May 2003 Location: In the O-zone Posts: 5,810	Re: Money to Discover Air I wouldn't call them friends. As I said before I knew none of them socially. I am not saying anything good about the rest of the Williams' because I hardly knew them. I worked with Rob every day and Melissa some, and I think they would have done things much differently if they could have. No one here wants to hear anything good about anyone named Williams, however.

September 15th, 2003, 22:34	#36
hammer Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Orange County, California Posts: 200	Re: Money to Discover Air [ QUOTE ] \I think they would have done things much differently if they could have. \ [/ QUOTE ] What do you mean by "if they could have?"

September 16th, 2003, 07:24	#37
AnotherWife Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Evergreen, Colorado Posts: 121	Re: Money to Discover Air [ QUOTE ] No one here wants to hear anything good about anyone named Williams, however. [/ QUOTE ] I understand Jason Williams, the X-NBA star, got his trial postponed. (He is accused of killed a limo driver in New Jersey.) So having the trial postponed is a good thing. Oh, you meant the ATA Williams family? Yeah, nobody cares to hear anything good about them so you should probably just stop.

September 16th, 2003, 08:05	#38
ready2fly Old Skool Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: DFW Posts: 7,182	Re: Money to Discover Air [ QUOTE ] R2F you are getting surly. It certain seems you are displaying hostility towards me, yet in PMs you said recently that we would have a truce. Do you stick by your word? [/ QUOTE ] A few things: 1. No surliness here, John...just calling them as I see them. You are being relentless in your pursuit of a defense for those who are perceived to have swindled a lot of people. In doing so, seems to me that you are coming across as the hostile one. I see it.....Apparently I'm not the only one. Do the Williams' deserve a defense - absolutely. But so do those who are out their tuitions/living expenses. The road goes both ways. 2. I'm not "displaying hostility towards" you. When someone disagrees with you, please understand that does not constitute an attack. I just don't agree with you and I'm exercising my right to express that. However you perceive that is your issue. Not mine. You'll note the total lack of (!!!) exclamation points; ( ) frowny faces, all-caps or otherwise. I respect your right to your opinion. I don't agree with it (or most of anything you say) but, that's my right too. Please respect that as well. 3. The word "truce" was never mentioned, so as far as "keeping my word" - I've never broken it. I've not directed any of my posts to you. I've not tried to pick a fight with you, nor do I intend to. I said I'd leave you alone and I've bitten my tongue on several occasions. But, if you call me out - as you just did - then I am obliged to respond. To everyone - and to JT - when you put yourself out there and express strong opinions based on "fact" or otherwise - do not be suprised and do not get upset when you get bombarded with dissenting opinions. If I disagree with anyone on this board, it doesn't mean I'm "evil", "hostile" or "surly" - it means I disagree. Period. I think we can agree to that. R2F

September 16th, 2003, 08:40	#39
shooter13 Old Skool Join Date: May 2002 Location: South Carolina Posts: 1,952	Re: Money to Discover Air [ QUOTE ] I think we can agree to that. [/ QUOTE ] I disagree.

September 16th, 2003, 08:49	#40
Eagle Banned Join Date: Oct 2000 Posts: 1,272	Re: Money to Discover Air [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I think we can agree to that. [/ QUOTE ] I disagree. [/ QUOTE ] heheheheheheheh

September 16th, 2003, 09:39	#41
ready2fly Old Skool Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: DFW Posts: 7,182	Re: Money to Discover Air

September 19th, 2003, 08:29	#42
shooter13 Old Skool Join Date: May 2002 Location: South Carolina Posts: 1,952	Re: Money to Discover Air This thread was providing so much entertainment. Can't someone get it going again??? I'll try... The William's smell bad! You'd think with all the money they stole they could buy deodorant.

September 19th, 2003, 09:01	#43
AnotherWife Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Evergreen, Colorado Posts: 121	Re: Money to Discover Air I'm not sure this thread has any legs without JT around, and he's been noticibly absent the past several days. Anyone care to guess where he's been? My guess is he's finally seen the light about the Williams' misdeeds, has turned state's evidence, and is now in the witness protection program.

September 19th, 2003, 11:04	#44
EatSleepFly Old Skool Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: ?? Posts: 4,600	Re: Money to Discover Air [ QUOTE ] Anyone care to guess where he's been? [/ QUOTE ] Now Eagle, what have you done with JT?

September 19th, 2003, 11:31	#45
Eagle Banned Join Date: Oct 2000 Posts: 1,272	Re: Money to Discover Air [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Anyone care to guess where he's been? [/ QUOTE ] Now Eagle, what have you done with JT? [/ QUOTE ] Not me But I suspect.....

September 19th, 2003, 11:33	#46
ready2fly Old Skool Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: DFW Posts: 7,182	Re: Money to Discover Air LMAO!!!

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