Captains second hand smoke is killing me... - Page 4

MikeD · November 14th, 2009, 22:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by BTAcola

MikeD- whose to say I have not been to SERE school or a form of one? Also- one does not ALWAYS have the ability to LEAVE that room, IE- CAR, to lunch/dinner/airport/office/sightseeing/ etc etc.. this is true what you are saying that I am not being FORCED to go to these events, however, If I value my job, which I hold in high regard, then I should do what the 2/3<sup>rds </sup>of this post say I should do and that’s stop being a pussy and deal with it. So… your “more and more laws to protect us theory” in my opinion is not accurate. This is not a Homeland Security act, nor is it a freedoms of information act. Does it infringe on your RIGHTS to smoke- you bet it does, but keep in mind, that you will (even though you specifically are NOT a smoke) have to take your smoke to a designated place that does not affect others. Its been tested and proved over and over again, that smoke-first or second hand, has many health consequences. I am not stating that there should be FREE FOR ALL RULE- if you don’t like my smoking, then leave the room type of thing, I’m saying there has to be some give and take. The current method of smokers are bad people, they should be punshined etc etc, I DO DISAGREE with, it should be fair to all parties here. So that is not what I’m protesting. I’m protesting that his smoke is causing me headaches in the car, with or without the window down when its snowing or raining. I’m protesting that I have no option to talk to the chief pilot about this because the guy I fly with>> IS THE FREAGGIN CHIEF PILOT, and he’s known the owner for YEARS… so going to the owner simply is not an option either.
So maybe, now is the time for someone to respond to me and say- I shouldn’t have posted anything in the first place if I already knew the outcome and there was nothing I can do about it. IM A PUSSY! There we have it folks…
.

Serious hat on here.

You may notice that nowhere did I judge you or call you any sort of name or inference, jokingly or otherwise. And you may also notice that I did, when speaking seriously, note that there has to be a compromise of some kind, as courtesy indeed goes both ways......that is, from him to you, as well as in reverse.

My answer on people being able to smoke or not was in response to another poster and was really a separate conversation from what your situation.

You should post any question you like here, not feel that you can't. No, it has nothing to do with name calling nor should it. Nor does it have to do with gas masks, quitting jobs, attendance of SERE school, etc . My serious answer to you still is one of this: ask the guy, as a courtesy, if he could refrain from smoking when you two are in the car....heck, make up an excuse if you must....allergic to smoke or something. But bring it up tactfully as a respectful request if you could get some professional courtesy of not having to have to deal with smoke in close quarters. Thats really all that can be done. Either he's a compromising person, or he isn't. As you say you two tend to get along in all other ways, this shouldn't be any different. How he responds to that request will show you whether he's a respectful person or not. I realize that you're only asking him to refrain for certain periods of close quarters, and to me that's reasonable to ask, again from a courtesy perspective.

Have you tried it that way? Would you be willing?

BTAcola · November 14th, 2009, 23:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeD

Serious hat on here.

You may notice that nowhere did I judge you or call you any sort of name or inference, jokingly or otherwise. And you may also notice that I did, when speaking seriously, note that there has to be a compromise of some kind, as courtesy indeed goes both ways......that is, from him to you, as well as in reverse.

My answer on people being able to smoke or not was in response to another poster and was really a separate conversation from what your situation.

You should post any question you like here, not feel that you can't. No, it has nothing to do with name calling nor should it. Nor does it have to do with gas masks, quitting jobs, attendance of SERE school, etc . My serious answer to you still is one of this: ask the guy, as a courtesy, if he could refrain from smoking when you two are in the car....heck, make up an excuse if you must....allergic to smoke or something. But bring it up tactfully as a respectful request if you could get some professional courtesy of not having to have to deal with smoke in close quarters. Thats really all that can be done. Either he's a compromising person, or he isn't. As you say you two tend to get along in all other ways, this shouldn't be any different. How he responds to that request will show you whether he's a respectful person or not. I realize that you're only asking him to refrain for certain periods of close quarters, and to me that's reasonable to ask, again from a courtesy perspective.

Have you tried it that way? Would you be willing?

Yes- I will give this try another go. Thank you for your clarification- I was not sure if you were in reference to me or someone else, so I responded as if It were I. But thanks, I hope it helps others as well in my situation.

YES SMOKERS HAVE RIGHT TO SMOKE.. YES NON SMOKERS HAVE RIGHT-NOT to SMOKE...

But where is the fine line between the two- so that both people are able to enjoy their rights without infringing on the other persons?

MikeD · November 14th, 2009, 23:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by BTAcola

Yes- I will give this try another go. Thank you for your clarification- I was not sure if you were in reference to me or someone else, so I responded as if It were I. But thanks, I hope it helps others as well in my situation.

YES SMOKERS HAVE RIGHT TO SMOKE.. YES NON SMOKERS HAVE RIGHT-NOT to SMOKE...

But where is the fine line between the two- so that both people are able to enjoy their rights without infringing on the other persons?

I fully agree. It's indeed a compromise. You sound like you're willing to compromise, and are just asking for consideration in the case of close quarters. The wild card is how much he's willing to compromise.....and that'll likely show his character type. It also depends what style of tact you do. Saying nothing will keep you miserable, going heavy handed will make him defensive (or he may be one of those that respect it, I don't know without meeting the guy). But I still think that if, as you say, you two get along in all other situations, then this one shouldn't be too different.

greaper007 · November 15th, 2009, 00:31

You have a tough one here. I hate being direct with people in power but this isn't the 60s. There's a good reason we have laws against smoking. 40% of cancers are caused by tobacco use (sourced from an NPR health report a few weeks ago). No, second hand smoke isn't exaggerated. You have enough crap to worry about hurting you in an airplane, something as backwards as smoking shouldn't be one of them. If the dude want's to have the lung capacity of someone that probably can't even run a mile and look 20 years older than his real age, that's his problem. When you guys are in a company car though his smoking is your problem.

Rant over.

I think you just need to be direct and consistent with him. Say "I like you and I understand that you have a physical need to smoke, but it's really been getting to me. Can we make some sort of compromise about when you smoke?" I find that when you're honest and direct with people and try to understand their side you can usually win them over.

Mikey_G · November 15th, 2009, 00:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by BTAcola

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ther; mso-font-pitch:variable; mso-font-signature:0 0 0 0 0 0;} @font-face {font-family:Calibri; panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4; mso-font-charset:0; mso-generic-font-family:swiss; mso-font-pitch:variable; mso-font-signature:-1610611985 1073750139 0 0 159 0;} /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {mso-style-unhide:no; mso-style-qformat:yes; mso-style-parent:""; margin-top:0in; margin-right:0in; margin-bottom:10.0pt; margin-left:0in; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri; mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;} .MsoChpDefault {mso-style-type:export-only; mso-default-props:yes; mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri; mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;} .MsoPapDefault {mso-style-type:export-only; margin-bottom:10.0pt;} @page Section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in; mso-header-margin:.5in; mso-footer-margin:.5in; mso-paper-source:0;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> </style>I’m also pretty sure my balls are much bigger than yours. I often find that the water in the urinal is cold and has cave like depths as well.<o></o>

I'm not one to measure nut sack size over the internet, but whatever. I am just a crusty NCO that is offering advice on an internet forum. As a smoker, I can understand where you are coming from, personally, I will go out of my way to make a non smoker happy. Good luck trying to get him to stop.

As a side note, I don't even wanna know where that last sentence came from. (my sadistic side says yea, I want to know, but no, I am good

)

SJM · November 15th, 2009, 00:43

Next time he lights up, grab the nearest fire extinguisher and empty it in his face. That'll show him.

shdw · November 15th, 2009, 00:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeD

Nor does it have to do with gas masks,

I was very serious about the gas mask! I actually cannot stand second hand smoke and if 165 bucks means not losing a few years of my life to potential lung cancer I would wear that thing every car ride. Hopefully he wouldn't take offense from it and it might turn into a comedy. At the very least I would get a home depot filtered mask though for cig smoke they would probably be pretty useless.

I would at first of course try what you already did to confront him. But a gas mask = no more confrontation and both parties happy...maybe laughing. Oh and I would so get the yellow hood too just for effect. But that is just my personality, if you can't joke about something than whats the point?

calcapt · November 15th, 2009, 01:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian J

I would recommend SERE to everyone out there just so I can laugh at them before they go. Embrace the suck! Don't we have some future SERE attendees on the board or did they already go? If they haven't gone yet, we should make a thread that scares the crap outta them.

SERE School is pure HELL. After I attended in Warner Springs, I went and made 20 copies of my graduation paperwork and vowed I would never ever go back. I learned that waterboards and other sadistic devices had very powerful ways of coaxing information from weak prisoners like me. Damn, I hated that place.

calcapt · November 15th, 2009, 01:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by BTAcola

....He is an older guy, and is stuck in his ways. Ive told him that the smoke bothers me but he doesn't seem to listen to it.

.....because he truly does treat you like an equal....

.....he will always smoke...

....but I DO NOT WANT TO comrpomise the mutal respect we have going....

I hate to tell you, but as I read your post, your captain doesn't give a rats ass what you think, and there is no mutual respect on his part. Being OK to work with when you have everything your way is not mutual respect.

You should not be subjected to his smoking in your professional capacity - period. Define what is acceptable to you and tell him firmly, giving him the opportunity to find a mutually acceptable way to remedy the situation. If that doesn't work, you can discuss it with your supervisor but make sure you document every conversation and what was said. Always maintain the highest standards of respect and professionalism but be firm and to the point.

If you are unable to find satisfactory results, you might consider contacting OSHA for help. If the company has elected not to help you up to this point, I would begin to think that perhaps this job was not as good as you might of thought.

Good Luck...

Propilot · November 15th, 2009, 01:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeD

Umm. Smokers have a right to smoke. One always has the option to leave. Now if he was following you around and blowing smoke in your face when you were attempting to leave, that's a different story.

I'm not a smoker at all, but I disagree with "smoke free" laws, simply due to my being someone who doesn't like more and more laws being created to "protect us". If a private owner wants to make a restaurant, for example, smoke-free, then that's up to them. But there shouldn't be laws created for that purpose.

Now, this doesn't keep you from asking in the form that mikeyG above stated........a tactful request.

What i posted was tactiful and respectful. Smokers do not have the right to smoke in a confined space that I occupy such as a rental car if I am required by my job to be in that car (company does not provide 2 rentals, one for each pilot).

Sorry but your off on this one.

Qgar · November 15th, 2009, 08:50

Have you considered one of those small, hand-held fans?

esa17 · November 15th, 2009, 09:05

Start driving the car and making him ride in the passenger seat. When he lights his cigarette roll down all the windows in the car and hit the window lock.

This of course is a last resort to really confronting him and letting him know how much this bothers you. Don't P-foot around the issue. Lay it out and let him know that his behavior is unacceptable.

SteveC · November 15th, 2009, 09:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by BTAcola

In the case where it is in the same car- I used a bad example- we just don’t go 5miles and that’s it, we both like to see the city a bit where we are. So, it’s more like, 5hrs a trip we spend in the car in a city. I said 5minutes, to give reference that he will literally smoke one cig and use the end of it to start the other… it’s literally just like that.

Wait a minute. So the problem isn't so much in the 5 minute ride to the hotel (mandatory), it's the sight seeing trip in the local area for a few hours (voluntary) that the smoking issue really starts to get to you?

That's certainly a different set of circumstances.

Qgar · November 15th, 2009, 09:22

Don't go sightseeing with him! If he asks why, tell him what the problem is. He then has two options---agree to not smoke when you're in the car sightseeing with him, or he can go alone.

Then you've put the ball in his court and you can see what kind of person he really is.

A-300F4-622R · November 15th, 2009, 10:13

Seems to me the final solution would be for the company (Captain) to go out and hire a F/O that smokes. Problem solved.

WacoFan · November 15th, 2009, 10:48

I am personally hurt that the whole "start smoking" thing was dismissed so readily. Smoking is wonderful and relaxing. Plus, it makes you look cool. It helps me not yell the word "F_-_-!!!" at least 10 times per day. Plus, I would have gotten the aforementioned finders fee from RJ Reynolds and Altria (formerly Philip Morris). I get $5 if I can get an adult to start, and $20 if I can get a youngster 16 years or under to start. Smoking solves problems (like this one - it wouldn't be an issue then) and generally improves QOL (up until cancer, or emphysema - but those won't happen until later anyway and you'll be old then so who cares). They say quitting smoking will add ten years to your life - but it is the last ten, so what are you really gaining? That last ten could very well be spent impotent, incontinent while laying in a ratty nursing home with mean nurses (because you couldn't afford a good nursing home because you quit your good flying job due to the Captain smoking...)

Here is a final PSA about the benefits of smoking:

minitour · November 15th, 2009, 12:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by WacoFan

I am personally hurt that the whole "start smoking" thing was dismissed so readily. Smoking is wonderful and relaxing. Plus, it makes you look cool....

It was funny the first time, less the second, now it's just old.

-mini

Boris Badenov · November 15th, 2009, 14:44

On the contrary, it gets funnier with each expository installment. "Start smoking" sounds dismissive and arrogant. But Waco is putting the proper amount of thought and craftsmanship in to his well-reasoned responses. I'm convinced, I'm going to start smoking.

gliderboy · November 15th, 2009, 14:52

My guess would be that your hypersensitivity to a few whiffs of cigarette smoke is a stress reaction caused by a new flying job (a job which is stressful enough anyway). You have to repress your stress while flying, but once on the ground it finds an outlet. Some find an outlet in drink, sex, driving/riding fast, etc., while others find it in anger — politics, race, company management, or, in your case, second-hand smoke.
Exercise is the best antidote for stress.

It only bothers you because you allow it to bother you.

To take it all to another level, when one looks back on all the young men who died flying in combat, who died from mechanicals, bad luck and all the other things which have killed aviators over the years, having to endure a few minutes of second-hand smoke is so trivial as to be laughable.

Waco is not being as facetious as he seems. In Asia it is not uncommon for doctors to advise their patients to start smoking as a way to control nervous disorders.

Still, +1 on the pussy factor. You're a pilot, remember?

Bumblebee · November 15th, 2009, 14:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by calcapt

You should not be subjected to his smoking in your professional capacity - period.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gliderboy

Still, +1 on the pussy factor. You're a pilot, remember?

Who to take seriously? hmmmmm....

Jimmy_Norton · November 15th, 2009, 15:05

I just don't understand how anyone with an IQ above 75 continues to smoke these days.

WacoFan · November 15th, 2009, 15:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boris Badenov

On the contrary, it gets funnier with each expository installment. "Start smoking" sounds dismissive and arrogant. But Waco is putting the proper amount of thought and craftsmanship in to his well-reasoned responses. I'm convinced, I'm going to start smoking.

Excellent! That is $5 more dollars...or one pack of cigarettes! Seriously...all the talk about the health dangers of second-hand smoke, but no talk of the health dangers of the stick most non-smokers have stuck far up their asses - that can't be healthy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimmy_Norton

I just don't understand how anyone with an IQ above 75 continues to smoke these days.

At am 80 IQ and have just finished a satisfying and refreshing Pall Mall...so much for your theory.

mtsu_av8er · November 15th, 2009, 15:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimmy_Norton

I just don't understand how anyone with an IQ above 75 continues to smoke these days.

It's very easy. Re-filling the lighter is sometimes the hard part. Or, keeping a match lit in the wind. Once you get your cigarette lit up, the rest is pretty easy!

Bumblebee · November 15th, 2009, 15:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by WacoFan

At am 80 IQ and have just finished a satisfying and refreshing Pall Mall...so much for your theory.

To be fair, he didn't say it doesn't happen just is curious why. Maybe you can help with that? Like why, knowing the certainty of a degradation of health at some point, a smart person would continue to inhale noxious and poisonous chemicals?

(Other than being addicted)

Now, I would never challenge any persons right to enjoy a legal form of recreation, as long as that enjoyment does not come at the expense of others.

mtsu_av8er · November 15th, 2009, 15:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bumblebee

Like why, knowing the certainty of a degradation of health at some point, a smart person would continue to inhale noxious and poisonous chemicals?

Because it tastes really good. Like a cheeseburger, or a corndog, or a french fry.

November 15th, 2009, 00:31	#79
greaper007 Old Skool Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: West Hartford, Ct Posts: 1,760	Re: Captains second hand smoke is killing me... You have a tough one here. I hate being direct with people in power but this isn't the 60s. There's a good reason we have laws against smoking. 40% of cancers are caused by tobacco use (sourced from an NPR health report a few weeks ago). No, second hand smoke isn't exaggerated. You have enough crap to worry about hurting you in an airplane, something as backwards as smoking shouldn't be one of them. If the dude want's to have the lung capacity of someone that probably can't even run a mile and look 20 years older than his real age, that's his problem. When you guys are in a company car though his smoking is your problem. Rant over. I think you just need to be direct and consistent with him. Say "I like you and I understand that you have a physical need to smoke, but it's really been getting to me. Can we make some sort of compromise about when you smoke?" I find that when you're honest and direct with people and try to understand their side you can usually win them over. __________________ <<<<<Hunter S. Thompson extends the Gonzo concept to flying.

November 15th, 2009, 00:43	#81
SJM Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: NNJ Posts: 164	Re: Captains second hand smoke is killing me... Next time he lights up, grab the nearest fire extinguisher and empty it in his face. That'll show him. __________________ Watch One Six Right on HULU: http://www.hulu.com/watch/118168/one-six-right

November 15th, 2009, 08:50	#86
Qgar Old Skool Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Deadheading to a city near you Posts: 7,508	Re: Captains second hand smoke is killing me... Have you considered one of those small, hand-held fans? __________________ Age, experience and cunning will beat youth and enthusiasm often enough to win most games, and that's all you need. There's none so blind as those who will not see.

November 15th, 2009, 09:05	#87
esa17 Old Skool Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: KTRL, KTYR, F46, T48 Posts: 1,593	Re: Captains second hand smoke is killing me... Start driving the car and making him ride in the passenger seat. When he lights his cigarette roll down all the windows in the car and hit the window lock. This of course is a last resort to really confronting him and letting him know how much this bothers you. Don't P-foot around the issue. Lay it out and let him know that his behavior is unacceptable. __________________ Being captain is about pure intuition and heart, a good captain can't have either one.

November 15th, 2009, 09:22	#89
Qgar Old Skool Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Deadheading to a city near you Posts: 7,508	Re: Captains second hand smoke is killing me... Don't go sightseeing with him! If he asks why, tell him what the problem is. He then has two options---agree to not smoke when you're in the car sightseeing with him, or he can go alone. Then you've put the ball in his court and you can see what kind of person he really is. __________________ Age, experience and cunning will beat youth and enthusiasm often enough to win most games, and that's all you need. There's none so blind as those who will not see.

November 15th, 2009, 10:13	#90
A-300F4-622R Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: 170 to Parcl Posts: 359	Re: Captains second hand smoke is killing me... Seems to me the final solution would be for the company (Captain) to go out and hire a F/O that smokes. Problem solved.

November 15th, 2009, 10:48	#91
WacoFan Old Skool Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: KC Posts: 6,934	Re: Captains second hand smoke is killing me... I am personally hurt that the whole "start smoking" thing was dismissed so readily. Smoking is wonderful and relaxing. Plus, it makes you look cool. It helps me not yell the word "F_-_-!!!" at least 10 times per day. Plus, I would have gotten the aforementioned finders fee from RJ Reynolds and Altria (formerly Philip Morris). I get $5 if I can get an adult to start, and $20 if I can get a youngster 16 years or under to start. Smoking solves problems (like this one - it wouldn't be an issue then) and generally improves QOL (up until cancer, or emphysema - but those won't happen until later anyway and you'll be old then so who cares). They say quitting smoking will add ten years to your life - but it is the last ten, so what are you really gaining? That last ten could very well be spent impotent, incontinent while laying in a ratty nursing home with mean nurses (because you couldn't afford a good nursing home because you quit your good flying job due to the Captain smoking...) Here is a final PSA about the benefits of smoking: __________________ Proud Member of the JC Mini-Conservative Movement Vice President, Air Hostess "Training" Last edited by WacoFan; November 15th, 2009 at 10:49.

November 15th, 2009, 14:44	#93
Boris Badenov Old Skool Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: River city named after "Louis". But not the good one. Posts: 3,546	Re: Captains second hand smoke is killing me... On the contrary, it gets funnier with each expository installment. "Start smoking" sounds dismissive and arrogant. But Waco is putting the proper amount of thought and craftsmanship in to his well-reasoned responses. I'm convinced, I'm going to start smoking. __________________ "An nescis, mi fili, quantilla prudentia mundus regatur?" - Axel Oxenstierna

November 15th, 2009, 14:52	#94
gliderboy Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Nowhere USA Posts: 59	Re: Captains second hand smoke is killing me... My guess would be that your hypersensitivity to a few whiffs of cigarette smoke is a stress reaction caused by a new flying job (a job which is stressful enough anyway). You have to repress your stress while flying, but once on the ground it finds an outlet. Some find an outlet in drink, sex, driving/riding fast, etc., while others find it in anger — politics, race, company management, or, in your case, second-hand smoke. Exercise is the best antidote for stress. It only bothers you because you allow it to bother you. To take it all to another level, when one looks back on all the young men who died flying in combat, who died from mechanicals, bad luck and all the other things which have killed aviators over the years, having to endure a few minutes of second-hand smoke is so trivial as to be laughable. Waco is not being as facetious as he seems. In Asia it is not uncommon for doctors to advise their patients to start smoking as a way to control nervous disorders. Still, +1 on the pussy factor. You're a pilot, remember? __________________ Better to be free in hell than a slave in heaven.

November 15th, 2009, 15:05	#96
Jimmy_Norton Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 203	Re: Captains second hand smoke is killing me... I just don't understand how anyone with an IQ above 75 continues to smoke these days.

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