Flying entire life without AFD

[jhugz]

Originally Posted by MikeD

On my divert, I was kind of interested if the three fields I could divert to had an ARFF Index and what it specifically was, based on the IFE I had.

Not something readily available on the sectional.

Point is, you may need more than you think you might, and it won't all be on a sectional or the approach plate.

If you are diverting why do you care if the field has an ARFF index. Not trying to bust your b's just curious if this is some kind of op-specs sort of thing. That is nice to know information in my book, not need to know. It would be nice if the sectionals had the info for the on field restaurants and the times of operation and quality of service since I'm probably going to be sitting there for the next couple hours but again nice vs need to know.

Originally Posted by TFaudree_ERAU

A/FD is the only legal source of takeoff and landing distances available.

Keep that in mind if you ever fly jets and don't have the luxury of someone doing your flight planning for you.

Can you reference that for me?

[drunkenbeagle]

Originally Posted by jhugz

If you are diverting why do you care if the field has an ARFF index.

If I expect to be on fire with 30,000 lbs of fuel, it would be good to know the fire trucks have more than 500 gallons of water...

I personally would just ask ATC for help.

[jhugz]

Originally Posted by drunkenbeagle

If I expect to be on fire with 30,000 lbs of fuel, it would be good to know the fire trucks have more than 500 gallons of water...

I personally would just ask ATC for help.

gotcha...I must of misread the post

[aevfo]

Originally Posted by TFaudree_ERAU

A/FD is the only legal source of takeoff and landing distances available.

Keep that in mind if you ever fly jets and don't have the luxury of someone doing your flight planning for you.

So you are saying that a 10-9 is not a legal source for t/o and landing distances?

[PGT]

I've used an AFD MAYBE twice. Never owned one until I was I was going for my IR rating.

oh and FY- Center controllers can pull up a page of an AFD on their screen so ask away.

[MikeD]

Originally Posted by drunkenbeagle

I bow to your superior flight planning, checking how many gallons of water the fire trucks have, I'd just be making sure there was a fire station (these are on the plates)

Not when there's no airport diagram for the airport, only approaches. I personally like to have an idea what's actually down there, being trained on such. There's a little more to an ARFF Index than just gallonage.

That's what Global SA gets you.

[MikeD]

Originally Posted by jhugz

If you are diverting why do you care if the field has an ARFF index. Not trying to bust your b's just curious if this is some kind of op-specs sort of thing. That is nice to know information in my book, not need to know. It would be nice if the sectionals had the info for the on field restaurants and the times of operation and quality of service since I'm probably going to be sitting there for the next couple hours but again nice vs need to know.



Can you reference that for me?

Field restaurants don't make the difference between life and death. Diverting in WX with an emergency to an airport (when there's a choice of airports within the same reasonable distance) that has the appropriate emergency equipment type or simply, just may.

[aevfo]

Originally Posted by MikeD

Diverting in WX with an emergency to an airport (when there's a choice of airports within the same reasonable distance) that has the appropriate emergency equipment type or simply, just may.

If you were diverting in weather with an emergency why wouldn't you just push the button and ask? That seems way easier to me than trying to find the correct page of the airport, then look an read the tiny print all while flying in weather with an emergency. ATC's there for you.

[MikeD]

Originally Posted by aevfo

If you were diverting in weather with an emergency why wouldn't you just push the button and ask? That seems way easier to me than trying to find the correct page of the airport, then look an read the tiny print all while flying in weather with an emergency. ATC's there for you.

I did. They didn't know offhand. Being uncontrolled fields, they couldn't readily get a hold of anyone either. And there wasn't time to dick around waiting for ATC to hold my hand or point me in the right direction.

Like I said, mine was a very unusual situation, but one where I had to make things happen myself despite the best efforts of ATC. The situation at hand just wasn't dealing out good cards from the deck that evening.

You can skate by with minimums; or you can plan and be prepared for the worst, and hope for the best.

There's not always the instant and easy solution available. And sometimes, you just may need that little publication in the flight bag that you rarely use...

See where I'm going with this?

[drunkenbeagle]

Originally Posted by MikeD

Not when there's no airport diagram for the airport, only approaches.

True. But I can't think of an airport off hand that is big enough to have a fire station, yet isn't big enough to have an airport diagram in the terminal procedures.

In any case, I would ask ATC. Since they can call the fire station to get the fire fighters ready. And bring in local firefighters that might be further away. Or find out that there is some NOTAM for the fire station being closed that you wouldn't know from the AF/D that is 55 days old.

There is a wealth of information in the AF/D though, in particular if you are VFR and don't have the Jepp/Naco charts.

[Adler]

Originally Posted by MikeD

You can skate by with minimums; or you can plan and be prepared for the worst, and hope for the best.

[MikeD]

Originally Posted by drunkenbeagle

True. But I can't think of an airport off hand that is big enough to have a fire station, yet isn't big enough to have an airport diagram in the terminal procedures.

Oh they're there.

In any case, I would ask ATC. Since they can call the fire station to get the fire fighters ready. And bring in local firefighters that might be further away. Or find out that there is some NOTAM for the fire station being closed that you wouldn't know from the AF/D that is 55 days old.

There is a wealth of information in the AF/D though, in particular if you are VFR and don't have the Jepp/Naco charts.

Again, the answers are simple when you're at zero altitude and zero airspeed behind the keyboard. You don't think I tried these things? For one, ATC calling an uncontrolled airport doesn't go as fast as you may think (or as I thought it would've), it's not like there's always some 911-esqe speed and ability.

Who knows? Someday, the $4 you were too cheap to shell out for an AFD might just may make the difference in a situation......don't always depend on crutches to keep you upright.

[Douglas]

Originally Posted by Adler

and that he should have his license revoked.

Not for real, right?

I like the green book. There is a ton of info in it and I always have a current one.

It is four dollars and internet is not required.

[H46Bubba]

Originally Posted by MikeD

I did. They didn't know offhand. Being uncontrolled fields, they couldn't readily get a hold of anyone either. And there wasn't time to dick around waiting for ATC to hold my hand or point me in the right direction.

Like I said, mine was a very unusual situation, but one where I had to make things happen myself despite the best efforts of ATC. The situation at hand just wasn't dealing out good cards from the deck that evening.

You can skate by with minimums; or you can plan and be prepared for the worst, and hope for the best.

There's not always the instant and easy solution available. And sometimes, you just may need that little publication in the flight bag that you rarely use...

See where I'm going with this?

How about a pickled egg to take the edge off!

[CRJDriver]

AFD.... Pffff...

I got an iPhone! I use www.navmonster.com

[Itchy]

28 years of flying, 10K hours, and never once owned an AFD.
Current jepps.

[Doug Taylor]

Each pilot in command shall, before beginning a flight, become familiar with all available information concerning that flight. This information must include—

(a) For a flight under IFR or a flight not in the vicinity of an airport, weather reports and forecasts, fuel requirements, alternatives available if the planned flight cannot be completed, and any known traffic delays of which the pilot in command has been advised by ATC;

(b) For any flight, runway lengths at airports of intended use, and the following takeoff and landing distance information:

(1) For civil aircraft for which an approved Airplane or Rotorcraft Flight Manual containing takeoff and landing distance data is required, the takeoff and landing distance data contained therein; and

(2) For civil aircraft other than those specified in paragraph (b)(1) of this section, other reliable information appropriate to the aircraft, relating to aircraft performance under expected values of airport elevation and runway slope, aircraft gross weight, and wind and temperature.

If there's something in the AFD, NOTAMS or a traditional "approved" source of data that was not covered by AirNav, the FAA will eat your lunch.

I've wrestled with the FAA before, they're not messin' around.

A current AFD and/or other traditional sources of flight data is a great insurance policy for when bad things unexpectedly happen.

[drunkenbeagle]

Originally Posted by MikeD

Who knows? Someday, the $4 you were too cheap to shell out for an AFD might just may make the difference in a situation......don't always depend on crutches to keep you upright.

Okay, you've sold me. I've actually been trying to keep current ones with me lately anyway.

[MikeD]

Originally Posted by drunkenbeagle

Okay, you've sold me. I've actually been trying to keep current ones with me lately anyway.

Of course, you may never need it either. I never thought I really would. It just came in handy during one of those times, times apart from the normal usage of it like in preflight (this was before the internet was huge too, so other sources of preflight planning weren't as prevelant). It was just a cheap green book of info at the time, that came in very handy when I found myself placed in a square corner, and I needed some pertinent info fast and right now, in order to make an informed decision and build my SA some while single-pilot.

Are you somehow unsafe without it? Of course not. But it may be a handy source of info someday in some situation. And it's lightweight, low cost, and doesn't take up too much space

[gtpilot]

Originally Posted by Doug Taylor

If there's something in the AFD, NOTAMS or a traditional "approved" source of data that was not covered by AirNav, the FAA will eat your lunch.

I've wrestled with the FAA before, they're not messin' around.

A current AFD and/or other traditional sources of flight data is a great insurance policy for when bad things unexpectedly happen.

Read, re-read and take this to heart!

The instructor in me also has to point out that your VFR sectionals are not current without a current AFD.

[drunkenbeagle]

Originally Posted by MikeD

Are you somehow unsafe without it? Of course not. But it may be a handy source of info someday in some situation. And it's lightweight, low cost, and doesn't take up too much space

I kind of like everything fitting in my headset bag.

I've got a chart case with everything I might ever need, but the risk of hurting my back trying to carry it is too great...

[USMCmech]

As in everything in aviation, you have to balance safety vs practicality.

In my OPINION, the internet based data and the info on Jepp charts is enough to cover 99.9% of situations I'll ever come across. The cost and hassel of keeping a current AFD is not worth the benifit for me.

In the past, I've flown around the local area without any charts at all. However I was completely aware of all the info I needed to make that local flight.



Where you decide to put the balance in your flying is your call. Everyone will make a different choice.

[Socal321]

Originally Posted by jynxyjoe

3 pages

lol yea wow..

[wjmiller3]

Originally Posted by gtpilot

Read, re-read and take this to heart!

The instructor in me also has to point out that your VFR sectionals are not current without a current AFD.

What???

[Doug Taylor]

All I'm saying is protect yourself against the unexpected.

I think if you're at the big brown desk talking to the FAA and I said, "Well, AirNav didn't mention anything about XYZ", I'd expect a very blank stare!

Protect yourself.