Zero to Hero Concept

[ILSstud]

Well, I apologize...but as the politicians say, "I don't recall."

[tonyw]

Originally Posted by SkyFlier33

Not that I really care, but IMHO this thread did start off with several sexist comments.

Well, they should be in the kitchen either barefoot or wearing stiletto heels. Hey, I'm a nice guy, I give them a choice.

And an airplane isn't a kitchen.

And now we have truly made this a sexist thread.

[spbrian]

Thank you Tony, well done sir!

[Socal321]

Originally Posted by ILSstud

So I was chatting with an acquaintance of mine...She got hired with something around 550 hrs back during the hiring boom. Needless to say she is now furloughed. We were talking about the industry this morning, and my numerous reasons why I did NOT want to be in the airline biz as a pilot. I mentioned that the hiring boom we had the past couple years just wasn't sustainable and turning out pilots with 250-300 hours and sending them into CRJs was foolish. She wholeheartedly disagreed with me and viewed this as some sort of personal attack. Am I wrong here?? Isn't it a generally accepted principle that piloting a jet requires "some" amount of experience, whether that be through CFI or flying small airplanes before graduating onto a passenger airliner?.... Needless to say she left the table...and I enjoyed my coffee and newspaper.

Well. If you are at 250 hours and someone dangles something other than a 172 would you take it? YOU may not feel prepared that's fine. The other guy or gal might, you shouldn't be knocking them for it. It all comes down to attitude and your experience, not flight time.

[ChasenSFO]

Ha! Today I had a delayed Brasilia going to SBA, we were waiting for the crew to come in. All of a sudden 3 women who were looking out the window come up to me and say "The 3 flight attendants are on board, but there's no pilots, you had better get on the radio and sort this out." I was thinking, "3 F/As on a Brasilia, what the foxtrot?". So I look out the window and notice its an all female crew.


Hey, they were women who said it!

[modernicarus]

Originally Posted by jynxyjoe

I am absolutely indicating, and in no uncertain terms, that my experience has universally shown women to get hired in preference to their male co-interviewees.

(John Wayne voice) Well lemme tell ya, pilgrim...

A few weeks ago I was talking with a corporate aviation department manager at a very large corporation about becoming a corporate pilot. I asked what they look for in candidates and how I can best prepare myself for this career. We talked about flight times, education, networking and some other stuff.

During this discussion, one of the things he told me was that there is a very huge push on "diversity" and that even if I had the flight times and ratings required, females and minorities would get first priority (assuming they meet insurance minimums) and anglo-american males would be given last consideration regardless of experience and education.

[wrxpilot]

Originally Posted by Pilot84

A CFI with 1500 hours flying the traffic pattern in a 152 is a lot more experienced than someone with 500 to fly a passenger aircraft? Lets get real, in my class there were pilots with 300 hours and 3000 hours. 4 of the hired that had over 3000 hours did not pass the sim while everyone else did.

Where do you guys come up with this nonsense? I don't know of any CFI with a significant amount of time that spent most of their time flying patterns in a C152. A lot of the time is spent flying low and slow, performing maneuvers, stalling the airplane a million times, recovering from really botched power on stalls, etc. By being out there flying every day, you (as a PIC) are having to deal with weather, extreme crosswinds, CRM, etc. Looking back to when I was doing primary instruction, a very small percentage of my time was spent in the pattern.

I also don't know of any CFIs that didn't get their CFII pretty early on. Once you get the CFII, as an instructor you really learn a lot about the IFR system. It was invaluable to me when I moved on to kerosene burners, no question about it.

To those that point towards the military and their success with low time pilots, the screening process over at USAF is a little tighter than ERAU...

[esa17]

Originally Posted by wrxpilot

Where do you guys come up with this nonsense?

They get it from not knowing better and the desire to convince themselves of something much more comfortable.

I'll take someone with 500DG over 1000TSIC any day.

[Boris Badenov]

Originally Posted by Socal321

YOU may not feel prepared that's fine. The other guy or gal might, you shouldn't be knocking them for it. It all comes down to attitude and your experience, not flight time.

You reserve the right to be a self-impressed snot-nosed know it all and I'll reserve the right to tell you to shut up and not touch anything. There's no conceivable way you're prepared to stay out of your own way in a cessna, let alone a jet at 250 hours. The fact that you think you are just means you're even further away.

[tjvpa28]

Originally Posted by modernicarus

During this discussion, one of the things he told me was that there is a very huge push on "diversity"...

Funny how it all started out as a big push for "equality"

[A-300F4-622R]

Only low time pilots think it's OK to put low time pilots in a jet as an operating crewmember.

[BobDDuck]

Originally Posted by A-300F4-622R

Only low time pilots think it's OK to put low time pilots in a jet as an operating crewmember.

Well, the RAA/ATA/UAA probably think so too.

[A-300F4-622R]

Originally Posted by Boris Badenov

You reserve the right to be a self-impressed snot-nosed know it all and I'll reserve the right to tell you to shut up and not touch anything. There's no conceivable way you're prepared to stay out of your own way in a cessna, let alone a jet at 250 hours. The fact that you think you are just means you're even further away.

Low time pilots NEED to heed Boris' words. You don't know what you don't know at this stage in your flying career.

[esa17]

Originally Posted by A-300F4-622R

Low time pilots NEED to heed Boris' words. You don't know what you don't know at this stage in your flying career.

But but but the G1000 is so cool and a cirrus is so fast!

[tjvpa28]

Originally Posted by esa17

But but but the G1000 is so cool and a cirrus is so fast!

[A-300F4-622R]

Originally Posted by esa17

But but but the G1000 is so cool and a cirrus is so fast!

Try turning your magic box off and see how well you fly.

[tjvpa28]

Originally Posted by A-300F4-622R

Try turning your magic box off and see how well you fly.

[Socal321]

Originally Posted by Boris Badenov

You reserve the right to be a self-impressed snot-nosed know it all and I'll reserve the right to tell you to shut up and not touch anything. There's no conceivable way you're prepared to stay out of your own way in a cessna, let alone a jet at 250 hours. The fact that you think you are just means you're even further away.

That's fine and that is why it's more dangerous for a 250hour RJ fo to be flying a cessna vs a 121 jet in an crew environment. I litterally have friends that are furloughed now calling me now wondering if they should apply to pt135 ops because they're convinced they're going to kill themselves. It's not the same flying, you're part of a crew and everything's done for you. But I digress.....

[Stone Cold]

Originally Posted by Socal321

That's fine and that is why it's more dangerous for a 250hour RJ fo to be flying a cessna vs a 121 jet in an crew environment. I litterally have friends that are furloughed now calling me now wondering if they should apply to pt135 ops because they're convinced they're going to kill themselves. It's not the same flying, you're part of a crew and everything's done for you. But I digress.....

WOW!!! Where's the popcorn, again? I have the wine, I need popcorn...

[Socal321]

Originally Posted by Stone Cold

WOW!!! Where's the popcorn, again? I have the wine, I need popcorn...

Uh yea.. hold the popcorn it's not very shocking. If you were trained exclusively to fly RJs from 250 hours you'd definitely feel more comfortable flying one in an emergency than flying a no gyro approach in a cub or a light twin single engine in icing. I'm not saying it's the traditional way but for many regional pilots that's how it's been for them the last several years.

[Stone Cold]

Originally Posted by Socal321

Uh yea.. hold the popcorn it's not very shocking. If you were trained exclusively to fly RJs from 250 hours you'd definitely feel more comfortable flying one in an emergency than flying a no gyro approach in a cub or a light twin single engine in icing. I'm not saying it's the traditional way but for many regional pilots that's how it's been for them the last several years.

Understood, and I don't really feel sorry for them. I know where their training has led them...right where a bunch of us said it would. Not being able to fly a 172 due to lack of structured environment. It is sad that you can upgrade at a regional but you are afraid of actually flying an airplane, be it 135 freight, charter, or skydivers. The reason I said the comment was 1) wine, and 2) you and I both know where this discussion will go. See the other low time threads. For a long time 121 guy (I think you've been in the game a few years anyways) to say 121 guys are afraid to fly anything but transport category airplanes is sad and scary. Why should the American public trust all these low time people when they can upgrade if they themselves are afraid "they're convinced they're going to kill themselves" if left alone???

[Socal321]

Originally Posted by Stone Cold

to say 121 guys are afraid to fly anything but transport category airplanes is sad and scary. Why should the American public trust all these low time people when they can upgrade if they themselves are afraid "they're convinced they're going to kill themselves" if left alone???

Well I'm not saying 121 guys are afraid I'm saying the ones that went straight into airline flying are and should be. And I didn't say they're going to kill themselves when left alone in an airliner.

[Stone Cold]

Originally Posted by Socal321

Well I'm not saying 121 guys are afraid I'm saying the ones that went straight into airline flying are and should be. And I didn't say they're going to kill themselves when left alone in an airliner.

Sorry, I meant the low time guys that went straight to the airlines, and on your second point...so it's okay they feel they might kill themselves if left alone to fly a 210 but okay for them to upgrade in an airliner and command a transport category airliner? That was my point.

[flyinguitar]

Originally Posted by flyTotheSky

Originally Posted by TXaviator

There's nothing wrong with discussing this issue. If you feel it's old and has been adequately addressed, you can go read a different thread. This isn't a company meeting you're trapped at where a never-ending discussion is keeping you from going home or anything.

And, while this topic does get discussed over and over again without any clear consensus being reached, I predict that it will continue to be discussed for many years to come.

[MFT1Air]

We are using the number 250 hours because of the minimum hours for Part 61 commercial ticket, right? The reason I say this is because of the numerousl discussions that would occur about the "appropriate" hours many would say is necessary especially with the "ATP before regionals" thread being bantered.