The unicom police

[jhugz]

Originally Posted by Ian J

You often hear these great stories about how people talked to some old timers at airshows or BSed with older guys around the hangars at your local airport and were so humbled by the opportunity to talk with people who have seen so much in aviation. But for some reason we think we can say things like "stop playing radio nazi" to them on the internet.

Is this how you would talk to this gentlemen if you were in his jumpseat? If he came to you for a BFR? If you were interested at a job with UPS one day?

Disagree all day long but just do so as if you were speaking to him face to face.

When did this board stop being a DISCUSSION board? I understand the whole listen to the more experienced rather then talk all over them yada yada...but when he/she is so wrong on a topic I'm going to step in, thousands of hour Airbus Captain or not.

[MikeD]

Originally Posted by Ian J

You often hear these great stories about how people talked to some old timers at airshows or BSed with older guys around the hangars at your local airport and were so humbled by the opportunity to talk with people who have seen so much in aviation. But for some reason we think we can say things like "stop playing radio nazi" to them on the internet.

Is this how you would talk to this gentlemen if you were in his jumpseat? If he came to you for a BFR? If you were interested at a job with UPS one day?

Disagree all day long but just do so as if you were speaking to him face to face.

People also forget that how they present themselves here; they're, in essence, interviewing for their next job, figuratively speaking. People see them here and their persona, how they interact with others, whether they're humble or not, etc. And through that, first impressions are formed. Those impressions can be lasting impressions not only for people here in positions to hire someone, but also those in positions to recommend someone....or not.....for a particular job.

I personally know of people on JC who have been positively as well as negatively affected by the impression here that they present. And those same people have gotten jobs, as well as lost consideration for jobs, because of just that. The positive know who they are, the negative don't.

Networking indeed goes both ways......

[Ian J]

Originally Posted by jhugz

When did this board stop being a DISCUSSION board?

It didn't. Discuss away... that's why I said:

Originally Posted by Ian J

Disagree all day long but just do so as if you were speaking to him face to face.

If you were talking about this with him face to face your attitude would (should) be different. I highly doubt any 20-year-old CFI would call a UPS captain a "radio nazi" to their face.

[cencal83406]

Originally Posted by jhugz

This thread makes me want to beat a child.

Do you use Tree and Fife for every radio call or say that your leaving each altitude in every radio call which is actual a REQUIRED report which no one does or teaches? I wouldn't believe you if you told me yes so anywhoo stop playing radio nazi no one cares. I let my students say whatever they want on the radio as long as they are getting the point across and saying the required reports.

Again, who cares about what is said over unicom?

I use the proper phonetic sayings for everything. "Center, Flagship Niner Zero Fower Flight Level Two Tree Seven Climbing Flight Level Tree Fife Zero."

I'm probably wrong breaking down the flight number, so I just gave myself something to look up in the AIM; but yeah, I use the phonetic and keep my stuff brief if I can.

As far as last call, if I was approaching your unicom airport and heard that, I probably would have no idea what you were talking about.... until I read this thread. I would have thought "last call" meant "who was that last call" or something like that....

[Rocketman99]

Originally Posted by jhugz

When did this board stop being a DISCUSSION board? I understand the whole listen to the more experienced rather then talk all over them yada yada...but when he/she is so wrong on a topic I'm going to step in, thousands of hour Airbus Captain or not.

FYI, no one has proven the Airbus Captain wrong in this instance yet. All that's been done is accusing people of being radio nazis and focusing on insignificant details. Radio discipline and proper terminology are not insignificant details, CTAF or not.

[jhugz]

Originally Posted by Ian J

It didn't. Discuss away... that's why I said:



If you were talking about this with him face to face your attitude would (should) be different. I highly doubt any 20-year-old CFI would call a UPS captain a "radio nazi" to their face.

If he just called me an amateur for saying last call when I know he was just talking to ATC not making the required IFR reports that makes me laugh. He is trying to say that I'm an amateur for not following the AIM when he isn't even following the FAR's. I think the term "radio nazi" fits well here. If this post is taken so personally that I am black-balled from all UPS hiring for the rest of my life then so be it.

I love how this board has went to, if you disagree w/ someone more senior in the industry then you, you are black-balling yourself from a job later in the industry. Give me a Break.

[Ian J]

Originally Posted by jhugz

If he just called me an amateur for saying last call when I know he was just talking to ATC not making the required IFR reports that makes me laugh. He is trying to say that I'm an amateur for not following the AIM when he isn't even following the FAR's. I think the term "radio nazi" fits well here. If this post is taken so personally that I am black-balled from all UPS hiring for the rest of my life then so be it.

I love how this board has went to, if you disagree w/ someone more senior in the industry then you, you are black-balling yourself from a job later in the industry. Give me a Break.

I've said it twice now and you are intentionally ignoring me - disagreement and discussion is fine. It's the way you do it that is important. Can you read these words? Do you understand them?

Tell you what, I'll let your own words say it for me:

http://forums.jetcareers.com/general...ml#post1314914

Originally Posted by jhugz

Everyone needs to just relax on this thread.

To the OP, I am the master of coming of like a total DB when I don't really mean it, so let me just hook you up w/ some advice.

Even though you may not mean it, you will say stuff that gets people totally up in arms. For example, this thread. The best way to handle it is not to try to shovel yourself in deeper. Again, trust me been there done that. The way you came off is OMG I can't way to become a pilot so that I can deal w/ all these cool emergencies.

Obviously, you and I both know thats not what you really meant but tensions are high tonight and for good reason. Take it easy, try to explain where your coming from and don't attack other members just because they seem to be attacking you. Again, I don't set the best example but just trying to help a brother out.

[cencal83406]

What's with all these "SNAPs" (hehe, thanks Todd, great use for here):

Just say how you are going to depart the pattern and then contact ATC if appropriate. This "last call" thing is amateurish and dumb, like taxiing around with your strobe lights on, but that's a whole other topic.

James, he wasn't calling you "amateurish and dumb".... he was saying that using that phrase is "amateurish and dumb". Separate yourself from it by realizing it's not a personal insult.

If I went around and said "1 2 3 Sugah Pop" on frequency, if someone said, "hey YOU, YOU are amateurish and dumb", that would be getting the point across in a insulting manner. But, if someone told me, "I think that saying 1 2 3 Sugah Pop is amateurish and dumb", they are merely saying that I can improve my radio phraseology because something that I said is not up to par, not that I personally am not up to par.

Sensitive New Age Pilots..... sheesh.

And a hearty "yeah that" to the first page of the thread mentioning that airline pilots are the biggest offenders. Most guys that I fly with like to omit "Flight Level" and the phonetics from their calls. It really grinds my ears (and gears) when the CAs say "Flagship 4241 nineteen for twenty-three".

[ozziecat35]

Originally Posted by Fly_Unity

Whys that? Just curious.

I did the last half of my PPL in the SR20, and while it was badass with the sidestick and Avidyne Glass, there was no real reason to be paying 135/hr to get a basic rating. I did my instrument in a 172 with steam gauges and I think overall I'm a better instrument pilot because of that.

[A-300F4-622R]

Originally Posted by jhugz

This thread makes me want to beat a child.

Do you use Tree and Fife for every radio call or say that your leaving each altitude in every radio call which is actual a REQUIRED report which no one does or teaches? I wouldn't believe you if you told me yes so anywhoo stop playing radio nazi no one cares. I let my students say whatever they want on the radio as long as they are getting the point across and saying the required reports.

Again, who cares about what is said over unicom?

I do my best to make all REQUIRED radio reports because that's what I'm paid to do, you know, being a PROFESSIONAL.

[A-300F4-622R]

Originally Posted by jhugz

When did this board stop being a DISCUSSION board? I understand the whole listen to the more experienced rather then talk all over them yada yada...but when he/she is so wrong on a topic I'm going to step in, thousands of hour Airbus Captain or not.

You're right, NOT using made-up unicom slang makes me in the wrong. Well, I'll just have to continue to be wrong and I'll have to continue to think of you as just another reason some of you guys are in the position you are in.

[cencal83406]

Originally Posted by A-300F4-622R

You're right, NOT using made-up unicom slang makes me in the wrong. Well, I'll just have to continue to be wrong and I'll have to continue to think of you as just another reason some of you guys are in the position you are in.

I love me some multi-quote, in the same post

Ask me how lol

[Doug Taylor]

Originally Posted by cencal83406

I love me some multi-quote, in the same post

Ask me how lol

Yeah but how is your auto-tune?

[Wing_96]

I would rather someone say "left final" then not say anything at all.

A bigger annoyance to me is the pilot who says, "Any traffic please advise," while there are five other aircraft in the pattern. I still wouldn't key-up the mic and chastise though.

The only time that I have keyed-up and said something was when a RV pilot decided to takeoff on the runway opposite that of which was currently in use by three other aircraft in the pattern...one of which was turning to the base leg.

I can tolerate bad form, needless chatter, etc, a heckuva lot more than I can that which impacts safety.

[Doug Taylor]

I used "Any traffic please advise" in New York Approach.

If you guys think it's unprofessional, well I think you're being a big blue meanie.

[A-300F4-622R]

Originally Posted by Doug Taylor

I used "Any traffic please advise" in New York Approach.

If you guys think it's unprofessional, well I think you're being a big blue meanie.

I got ya on the fish finder.

[Doug Taylor]

Augh!

Why do guys tell ATC that? It tells ATC and the aircraft that you're told to look out for nothing at all.

Besides, "Traffic, three o clock" means "Look out of your freaking window", not put down the USAToday and look at your TCAS.

[TFaudree_ERAU]

Originally Posted by Doug Taylor

Augh!

Why do guys tell ATC that? It tells ATC and the aircraft that you're told to look out for nothing at all.

Besides, "Traffic, three o clock" means "Look out of your freaking window", not put down the USAToday and look at your TCAS.

If the average pilot had any idea at all of what "traffic in sight" means for a controller and what kind of options it opens up for them, they would be embarrassed at themselves for saying they've got it on TCAS.

I wish a controller would shoot back with "thanks, but that doesn't help me out any and it isn't what I asked you for."

[Stone Cold]

Originally Posted by Doug Taylor

Augh!

Why do guys tell ATC that? It tells ATC and the aircraft that you're told to look out for nothing at all.

Besides, "Traffic, three o clock" means "Look out of your freaking window", not put down the USAToday and look at your TCAS.

I actually had a MIA controller ask me if I had traffic once. I said "negative contact". He shot back, "do you have him on TCAS"? "Yes". "Okay, traffic 12 O'clock, 5 miles, turn left base cleared visual." The Captain and I looked at each other dumbfounded. He actually issued a clearance with the "fish finder"!!

True story. Quotes may not be verbatim, but you get the picture.

[cencal83406]

Originally Posted by A-300F4-622R

I got ya on the fish finder.

Howabout "looking for traffic"

In the AIM you're supposed to say "Negative Contact" if you don't see traffic that ATC calls.

[Bernoulli Fan]

Originally Posted by cencal83406

Howabout "looking for traffic"

In the AIM you're supposed to say "Negative Contact" if you don't see traffic that ATC calls.

This is one I wish the FAA would change. "Negative contact" sounds so lazy. Especially when tower keeps trying to point out the traffic.

"Traffic one o'clock four miles same altitude."
"Negative contact."
"Traffic now twelve o'clock two miles."
"Negative contact."
"Traffic passing off your left no factor."
"Roger."

This is where I picture the pilot reading his USA Today, expecting the tower to keep traffic clear of him.

"Looking for traffic" sounds so much more proactive, and though it's not in the AIM, I encourage my students to say it because hopefully if they say it, they're more likely to do it.


P.S. "Last call" sounds dumb.

[A-300F4-622R]

Originally Posted by cencal83406

Howabout "looking for traffic"

In the AIM you're supposed to say "Negative Contact" if you don't see traffic that ATC calls.

I now say "Negative contact, looking for traffic but got em on the fishfinder, last call"

[MQAAord]

Originally Posted by A-300F4-622R

Thanks, I didn't know that!

Maybe someone else on the forum didn't, and now they do.

Lose the attitude, please.

[A-300F4-622R]

Originally Posted by MQAAord

Maybe someone else on the forum didn't, and now they do.

Lose the attitude, please.

I guess the sarcasm tag is invisible to moderators?

[MQAAord]

It's perfectly visible.

And I see you've edited your post.

/thread sidetrack.