Cardinal Gear up landing

JusticeAK · July 1st, 2009, 23:00

This was the cardinal I got my complex rating in, Not surprising it had a gear malfunction is a real MX pit.

Video on link

http://www.ktuu.com/Global/story.asp?S=10630109

Maddog1974 · July 2nd, 2009, 00:27

I saw this post and have been wondering...

If you have an emergency in the air with the airplane and your on a training flight with a student...when does the clock stop? Would you stop the clock so to speak at the time when you realize that you have an emergency or what?

If anyone has opinions or other comments I would love to hear them.

BTW, sorry if I hijacked this thread!

Inverted · July 2nd, 2009, 00:32

When I was working at a flight school we had a Citabria cough a valve into a piston and went down, the Student was not charged lol. They both survived.

Roger, Roger · July 2nd, 2009, 00:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maddog1974

I saw this post and have been wondering...

If you have an emergency in the air with the airplane and your on a training flight with a student...when does the clock stop? Would you stop the clock so to speak at the time when you realize that you have an emergency or what?

If anyone has opinions or other comments I would love to hear them.

BTW, sorry if I hijacked this thread!

Depends a lot on school policy. When an engine croaked on me in the Twinstar, my student was not charged for a portion of the time...If my memory serves right, he got about .4 for free. He wasn't discounted the entirety of the flight because he did get quite a bit of training during the emergency. The only reason he DIDN'T fly the whole thing was that it was his second flight ever in the Twinstar.

SpiraMirabilis · July 2nd, 2009, 01:46

I figure if you have an actual emergency it should be gratis on general principle but thats just me.

Killtron2000 · July 2nd, 2009, 01:50

I saw a duchess land with the nose wheel up once. The student and instructor got out fast and bolted away and than nothing happened so I thought it was funny but it was actually a good idea.

PA44-LUV · July 2nd, 2009, 02:41

I had a partial power failure during the 2nd take-off on what was supposed to be a touch-n-go series, despite being a commercial student with over 200 hrs wasn't allowed to handle the emergency b/c my CFI went into panic mode, and got charged for the whole block. This a/c is a MX pit as well and has since had 2 more complete engine failures. I never scheduled that plane again.

Teller1900 · July 2nd, 2009, 02:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpiraMirabilis

I figure if you have an actual emergency it should be gratis on general principle but thats just me.

I agree. Had the engine on a 172 decide it didn't want its oil anymore, so it spit it all over the windscreen to show its displeasure. I got that flight for free.

cool92092 · July 2nd, 2009, 08:43

Had a cherokee that decided it would crack open one of its cyliders for fun right after takeoff. Got the earlier portion of the flight for free.

Joe Gremlin · July 2nd, 2009, 11:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by PA44-LUV

I had a partial power failure during the 2nd take-off on what was supposed to be a touch-n-go series, despite being a commercial student with over 200 hrs wasn't allowed to handle the emergency b/c my CFI went into panic mode, and got charged for the whole block. This a/c is a MX pit as well and has since had 2 more complete engine failures. I never scheduled that plane again.

The plane tried to kill you and they charged you for it? I'd give them a dollar and tell them to cherish it because its the last one they'll ever see from me.

OregonTrail · July 2nd, 2009, 11:33

i think i would have shut down the engine and tried to crank it to a horizontal position, and if the pump was still working tried to pull the mains up. but in the end everyone was safe so i

Roger, Roger · July 2nd, 2009, 11:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by OregonTrail

i think i would have shut down the engine and tried to crank it to a horizontal position, and if the pump was still working tried to pull the mains up. but in the end everyone was safe so i

You'd do all that on short final, while landing the plane?

No thanks.

TallFlyer · July 2nd, 2009, 13:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roger, Roger

You'd do all that on short final, while landing the plane?

No thanks.

Eh, I wouldn't worry about the gear so much because it's probably going to get screwed over landing on it's belly anyway. As far as the engine, depending on the circumstances I might be tempted to give that a shot, realizing that I'm just going to pull the mixture on VERY short final and let the prop stop where it's going to stop. None of this goosing the starter nonsense.

kiloalpha · July 2nd, 2009, 13:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by TallFlyer

Eh, I wouldn't worry about the gear so much because it's probably going to get screwed over landing on it's belly anyway. As far as the engine, depending on the circumstances I might be tempted to give that a shot, realizing that I'm just going to pull the mixture on VERY short final and let the prop stop where it's going to stop. None of this goosing the starter nonsense.

The flight school I went to had a 172RG, always having problems with the gear. One time the nose did not extend so student and CFI decided to circle until the FD could show up then land. They did stop the engine on short final but got lucky and got the prop stopped at the 3 and 9 position.

Another time a student had to take his belt off and let the CFI fly so he could reach back and wrangle the left main into the lock.

Kinda wish Cessna did a better job designing the gear system.

jknight8907 · July 2nd, 2009, 13:59

If it's a rental, screw the engine. I'm not potentially comprimising my life to soften the blow to their insurance.

Codyjp · July 2nd, 2009, 14:13

cutting the mixture and cranking the engine to level the prop wont work in a cardinal. It continues to windmill.

I tried it the last time I flew a Cardinal with a gear problem. Dooh!

I've had a couple of near misses with students. They continue to fly the plane through the whole event. They get to learn a LOT from the situation and they have never had a problem paying for it. I suppose if they thought they should get a discount I'd work with them but nobody has ever asked. If I took the plane from them and told them to be quite then it would be a different story.

I got called by ATC to look for a downed ultra light last weekend. I was with an 8 hour pilot I had not flown with before. He flew the plane in orbits and I searched and communicated. He was thrilled and ecstatic after it was over, the ultra light pilot was fine and my student went home happy with turns around a point and search and rescue procedures logged in his book.

Stomp16 · July 2nd, 2009, 15:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by kiloalpha

The flight school I went to had a 172RG, always having problems with the gear. One time the nose did not extend so student and CFI decided to circle until the FD could show up then land. They did stop the engine on short final but got lucky and got the prop stopped at the 3 and 9 position.

Another time a student had to take his belt off and let the CFI fly so he could reach back and wrangle the left main into the lock.

Kinda wish Cessna did a better job designing the gear system.

The school I did my training at had 5, '81 172RGs. They're piles to say the least. On one of my CFI training flights, I threw the gear handle up and nothing happened. I recycled the handle and still nothing happened. We still had 3 green so I decided to leave it alone since it was stuck in the most desired position. It seemed like the RG's were always in MX with gear problems.

cmill · July 2nd, 2009, 17:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roger, Roger

Depends a lot on school policy. When an engine croaked on me in the Twinstar, my student was not charged for a portion of the time...If my memory serves right, he got about .4 for free. He wasn't discounted the entirety of the flight because he did get quite a bit of training during the emergency. The only reason he DIDN'T fly the whole thing was that it was his second flight ever in the Twinstar.

do you fly out of longview? i was flying my route into tyler when i heard a twinstar with an engine out goin into GGG, wasnt you was it?

scooter2525 · July 2nd, 2009, 17:16

We had a 210 have a similar condition with the gear right after the powerpacks were replaced. it was a test flight at the MX field and the mech came out and had us recycle the master. Got the gear working again...

Roger, Roger · July 2nd, 2009, 17:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmill

do you fly out of longview? i was flying my route into tyler when i heard a twinstar with an engine out goin into GGG, wasnt you was it?

It was me or one of my colleagues. We've had 2 instances of landing with one shut down over the last 2 years.

cmill · July 2nd, 2009, 17:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roger, Roger

It was me or one of my colleagues. We've had 2 instances of landing with one shut down over the last 2 years.

this happend like just a month or so ago

Roger, Roger · July 2nd, 2009, 17:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmill

this happend like just a month or so ago

Then it wasn't me, but it was my school's airplane and I know who was instructing in it.

cmill · July 2nd, 2009, 17:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roger, Roger

Then it wasn't me, but it was my school's airplane and I know who was instructing in it.

just curious, i always hate hearing a fellow pilot in a bad situation over the radio. glad things turned out ok.

OregonTrail · July 2nd, 2009, 18:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roger, Roger

You'd do all that on short final, while landing the plane?

No thanks.

there was nothing wrong with the engine, you wouldnt have to mess with the gear on short final, if the pump didnt work i wouldnt worry about the gear, but i would do a power off landing to minimize chances of shrapnel flying through the wind screen. There is no reason to have the engine running, i think a touch and go is out of the question. Strikin the prop doesnt only ruin the prop and engine, it can ruin the air frame and instruments from an abruct stop. i rather grind some skid plates and maybe a little bit of flaps.

floridaCFII · July 2nd, 2009, 23:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by OregonTrail

There is no reason to have the engine running, i think a touch and go is out of the question. Strikin the prop doesnt only ruin the prop and engine, it can ruin the air frame and instruments from an abruct stop. i rather grind some skid plates and maybe a little bit of flaps.

There's no reason to eliminate options in an emergency situation. Coming in with the engine shut off eliminates the option of a go-around. Remember... once you know you're crashing an airplane, the insurance company owns it... do whatever it takes to ensure you walk away from it unharmed.

IMO, you're overcomplicating things by shutting down engines, bumping props with the starter, etc on short final when you already have one emergency to deal with. It just seems to increase the chances of making the situation worse.

July 1st, 2009, 23:00	#1
JusticeAK Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Anchorage, ak Posts: 63	Cardinal Gear up landing This was the cardinal I got my complex rating in, Not surprising it had a gear malfunction is a real MX pit. Video on link http://www.ktuu.com/Global/story.asp?S=10630109

July 2nd, 2009, 00:27	#2
Maddog1974 Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: KGYH Posts: 161	Re: Cardinal Gear up landing I saw this post and have been wondering... If you have an emergency in the air with the airplane and your on a training flight with a student...when does the clock stop? Would you stop the clock so to speak at the time when you realize that you have an emergency or what? If anyone has opinions or other comments I would love to hear them. BTW, sorry if I hijacked this thread! __________________ "You could teach monkeys to fly better than that!"

July 2nd, 2009, 00:32	#3
Inverted Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Walnut creek...Airport: KLVK Posts: 81	Re: Cardinal Gear up landing When I was working at a flight school we had a Citabria cough a valve into a piston and went down, the Student was not charged lol. They both survived.

July 2nd, 2009, 01:46	#5
SpiraMirabilis Old Skool Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 3,345 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Cardinal Gear up landing I figure if you have an actual emergency it should be gratis on general principle but thats just me. __________________ Yet Another Freight Puppy*

July 2nd, 2009, 01:50	#6
Killtron2000 Old Skool Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Prime Universe Posts: 2,300	Re: Cardinal Gear up landing I saw a duchess land with the nose wheel up once. The student and instructor got out fast and bolted away and than nothing happened so I thought it was funny but it was actually a good idea. __________________ This is a signature, fear it.

July 2nd, 2009, 02:41	#7
PA44-LUV Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Falls Church, VA Posts: 126	Re: Cardinal Gear up landing I had a partial power failure during the 2nd take-off on what was supposed to be a touch-n-go series, despite being a commercial student with over 200 hrs wasn't allowed to handle the emergency b/c my CFI went into panic mode, and got charged for the whole block. This a/c is a MX pit as well and has since had 2 more complete engine failures. I never scheduled that plane again. __________________ I can haz airplane!

July 2nd, 2009, 08:43	#9
cool92092 Junior Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: NYC Posts: 118	Re: Cardinal Gear up landing Had a cherokee that decided it would crack open one of its cyliders for fun right after takeoff. Got the earlier portion of the flight for free. __________________ buy me some peanuts and cracker jacks...

July 2nd, 2009, 11:33	#11
OregonTrail Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Bend, Or Posts: 236	Re: Cardinal Gear up landing i think i would have shut down the engine and tried to crank it to a horizontal position, and if the pump was still working tried to pull the mains up. but in the end everyone was safe so i

July 2nd, 2009, 13:59	#15
jknight8907 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Memphis Posts: 355	Re: Cardinal Gear up landing If it's a rental, screw the engine. I'm not potentially comprimising my life to soften the blow to their insurance. __________________ Jonathan

July 2nd, 2009, 14:13	#16
Codyjp Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Long Beach Posts: 395	Re: Cardinal Gear up landing cutting the mixture and cranking the engine to level the prop wont work in a cardinal. It continues to windmill. I tried it the last time I flew a Cardinal with a gear problem. Dooh! I've had a couple of near misses with students. They continue to fly the plane through the whole event. They get to learn a LOT from the situation and they have never had a problem paying for it. I suppose if they thought they should get a discount I'd work with them but nobody has ever asked. If I took the plane from them and told them to be quite then it would be a different story. I got called by ATC to look for a downed ultra light last weekend. I was with an 8 hour pilot I had not flown with before. He flew the plane in orbits and I searched and communicated. He was thrilled and ecstatic after it was over, the ultra light pilot was fine and my student went home happy with turns around a point and search and rescue procedures logged in his book. __________________ Career Flight Instruction in Long Beach CFI, CFII, MEI, IGI, AGI.

July 2nd, 2009, 17:16	#19
scooter2525 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: beehive Posts: 1,027 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Cardinal Gear up landing We had a 210 have a similar condition with the gear right after the powerpacks were replaced. it was a test flight at the MX field and the mech came out and had us recycle the master. Got the gear working again...

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