How intense is IOE? - Page 2

gtpilot · May 9th, 2008, 06:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by surreal1221

ACARS is nice. . .so I hear.

As long as it's not deferred on a 20 min turn!

777forever · May 9th, 2008, 09:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Screaming_Emu

ACARS is friggin spectacular

What we have ACARS?!? I been looking for it all around in the ATR but can't find it. The Captain never uses it or mentions it. Im too scared to ask him cuz I might look dumb. Can anybody help?!?!

Clocks · May 9th, 2008, 10:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by 777forever

What we have ACARS?!? I been looking for it all around in the ATR but can't find it. The Captain never uses it or mentions it. Im too scared to ask him cuz I might look dumb. Can anybody help?!?!

When he asks you if the W&B is done just say "yeah, can you double check it for me?" then stare at him. If he punches buttons on a computer, you might have acars!

woodreau · May 9th, 2008, 10:28

IOE will initially be very rushed but as it goes on it gets easier as you figure things out.

I thought 30 or 40 minutes was plenty enough time to do a turn, but found out that it's a little bit more involved at first if you have to get clearance, program the box, and deal with catering. I had just come from an airline that only scheduled 10 minutes for turns at the outstations, so once you've been doing it for a while you get good at blocking in, shut down, chocked, deplaned, refueled, reviewing the release, boarded and pax safety briefed, doing a manual W&B, doors closed, chocks pulled and engine starting in about 4-5 minutes, with an moderately experienced crew you could do this without rushing. If nobody got off or on, the turn could be done in 1 or 2 minutes without rushing. Of course with new crews, things were a little bit slower.

777forever · May 9th, 2008, 12:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by woodreau

IOE will initially be very rushed but as it goes on it gets easier as you figure things out.

I thought 30 or 40 minutes was plenty enough time to do a turn, but found out that it's a little bit more involved at first if you have to get clearance, program the box, and deal with catering. I had just come from an airline that only scheduled 10 minutes for turns at the outstations, so once you've been doing it for a while you get good at blocking in, shut down, chocked, deplaned, refueled, reviewing the release, boarded and pax safety briefed, doing a manual W&B, doors closed, chocks pulled and engine starting in about 4-5 minutes, with an moderately experienced crew you could do this without rushing. If nobody got off or on, the turn could be done in 1 or 2 minutes without rushing. Of course with new crews, things were a little bit slower.

To add, it all becomes a piece of cake after about the 8th time you done it. You'll be able to finish up all your paperwork, cockpit set-up, walk around, bathroom break, and still have sometime to go chat with the FAs before the passengers come to wreck the day hehe. Just playin on the last bit.

UND_Flyer · May 9th, 2008, 13:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Screaming_Emu

ACARS is friggin spectacular

So is your guys' on-time performance

Sorry, couldn't resist

av8sean · May 9th, 2008, 15:01

IOE wasn't hard, and I usually take about 10-15 mins on the CRJ for the walk around and FMS. Maybe a little longer if I'm lazy or doing first-flight.

777forever · May 9th, 2008, 15:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by UND_Flyer

So is your guys' on-time performance

Sorry, couldn't resist

Hahaha....hahaha......haha........ha

MusketeerMan · May 9th, 2008, 15:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by taseal

I have a friend who finished training at republic for 170s... he says the IOE is intense. they want u to do walkaround and do all the paperwork in about 11 mins... he says that right now he is at about 30 for everything and they aren't too happy...

it just sounds crazy to do a walkaround a bigass 170, and do all the paperwork (what kinda paperwork does the FO do?) in 11 mins.

I mean it takes me 5-10 mins to walkaround a 172, and setup my charts, and plug in my headset and all that good stuff (doesn't include TO data card)... I can't imagine doing a 170 in 11-15 mins.

I had no check airman give me any time constraints for a walk around. We knew when we were due out and tried to get the door closed by that period. Now, we don't need more than 15 minutes to get everything ready..what takes the time is for all the pax to load and for the rampers to get us our paperwork so we can finish ours.

He'll get it just fine in a matter of no time...

P&H · May 9th, 2008, 16:31

You learn the tricks of the trade on the line. Good IOE captains will show you ways to work efficiently and quickly.

For example: I start the paperwork for the following flight on the way to the outstation. Our turns are typically 30 minutes (on our plane, at least). A bulk of the information for each Load Manifest can be filled in without the release. Doing this alone can save a couple of minutes for quick turns.

As soon as we land, I get the times logged, the release is usually handed to us through our hatch as soon as the parking brake is set, I get the numbers in the (half completed already) form (no ACARS or FMS on the ATR), usually it's the same ATIS as when we arrived, get the clearance... This all takes about 3 minutes maybe? Hop out, do the post/pre flight, get back in, wait for 15 minutes to get the Cargo Loads, finish the numbers, spin the wheel, and ready for engine start.

When you're doing 5 to 6 legs a day, you get very efficient and you get into a flow/groove.

USMC-SGT · May 9th, 2008, 19:17

It took a bit to get used to of course to find out the best order but my flow is (few tricks included.)

On the way in for an airport that doesnt differentiate from departure to arrival atis and you dont have D-atis..skip the atis, if it hasnt changed you already have it from the approach you just have to verify it hasnt changed to a special or within the hour.

Once you land and checklist are done, fly outside with the first of the pax and do the walkaround. For those not in 121 it is not a standard walkaround since you cant reach or see most parts it truely is just a walk around where you do a good visual inspection of all the important parts and make sure nothing fell off or broke on the last flight.

As soon as you hop back in the plane get the clearance (if you do 30 minute turns it is all ready to go if not and it is before 30 minutes skip to the next step.)

Enter the clearance as filed. I save most flight plans because they are canned or just copy them off the release into the FMS so all I have to do is load it If you copy it off the release we typically get as filed but it is alot easier to make a few changes than enter the whole thing.

In any downtime or if there isnt any I will start with the runway data into the acars since I have the atis already I can enter the runway in use and any other 2 runways we may get. I also will go ahead and enter the fuel into the fuel page and have it loaded up to the weight and balance section so once we get the loadsheet and the count I just have to enter it and hit send.

Total breakdown:
"In" time to being able to get off and preflight ~4 minutes

Preflight ~4 minutes or so

Atis and clearance ~2 minutes maybe more if you are at PIT since they tell you every one of the 17 taxiway closings

Entering the flight plan ~1 minute

Getting the fuel page and T/O data entered and getting the weight and balance set up ~2 minutes

Total time to present :13 minutes

For the next 7-10 minutes you just verify what youve done, do the departure briefing and discuss any changes, MELs, DMIs departure and destination weather and anything else you want to talk about and last but not least the agent hands you the load sheet and the girls in back hand you the count and you throw the numbers in and send them out and enter your data when it comes back.

Close the doors, call for push and off you go.

Granted that your mileage will vary because we have acars and EVERYTHING goes into it and gets spit back out so it would take a little more work obviously if you have to crank the wiz wheel for your numbers.

jtrain609 · May 9th, 2008, 19:53

Naw you can spin the wheel pretty fast. Depending on the situation you can do a turn in under 15 minutes without being rushed, you just need to be efficient and have both guys on the same page.

Seggy · May 9th, 2008, 20:04

WOW a fifteen minute turn. All hail to you

I have done sub one minute turns.

jtrain609 · May 9th, 2008, 20:08

One day, I will hit you with a bus and then finally bring proof to the world that sasquatch has been killed!

Screaming_Emu · May 9th, 2008, 20:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by UND_Flyer

So is your guys' on-time performance

Sorry, couldn't resist

www.thingsididlastnight.com

PCL_128 · May 9th, 2008, 21:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by jtrain609

One day, I will hit you with a bus and then finally bring proof to the world that sasquatch has been killed!

inside0ut · May 10th, 2008, 03:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Screaming_Emu

www.thingsididlastnight.com

LOL thats hilarious.

Screaming_Emu · May 10th, 2008, 04:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by gtpilot

As long as it's not deferred on a 20 min turn!

That or "ACARS NOCOMM". Which, I have noticed usually goes out as soon as you finish doing weight and balance/performance manually. I think I can hear it laughing at me sometimes. Then you get an ear blasting "SELCAL" every couple seconds for the next minute because the captain tried to send off the data about 7 times.

minitour · May 10th, 2008, 06:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seggy

WOW a fifteen minute turn. All hail to you

I have done sub one minute turns.

.......dayum.

-mini

mikecweb · May 10th, 2008, 07:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seggy

WOW a fifteen minute turn. All hail to you

I have done sub one minute turns.

:Yawn:

woodreau · May 10th, 2008, 11:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seggy

WOW a fifteen minute turn. All hail to you

I have done sub one minute turns.

It's amazing what you can do when you don't have acars

I've gotten phone calls from the chief pilot to explain my one minute turns - but one minute turns are defintely doable.

One thing you can do to speed things up is to get clearance on the taxi in (at the hub) - for us since there is no FMS to program - at the outstation you just pick up the clearance on the taxi out - ATC won't give you one anyway while you're at the gate - they want you to be holding short of the runway ready to go before they give you a clearamce. Or even better if it is a real IFR/IMC day just ask the controller for a through clearance so you don't need to cancel after you get on the ground or pick up a new one before you take off - after checking to make sure that no one else is scheduled to be in or out within the next 20 minutes

Get the weight and balance done before landing. Get the numbers (pax and bags on and off) from the agent in the in range call.

Put fuel just on one side (no single point refuelling here) - cross transfer while you are fueling.

The single pilot 135 freight guys know all the tricks to quick turns.

May 9th, 2008, 10:28	#29
woodreau Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 256	Re: How intense is IOE? IOE will initially be very rushed but as it goes on it gets easier as you figure things out. I thought 30 or 40 minutes was plenty enough time to do a turn, but found out that it's a little bit more involved at first if you have to get clearance, program the box, and deal with catering. I had just come from an airline that only scheduled 10 minutes for turns at the outstations, so once you've been doing it for a while you get good at blocking in, shut down, chocked, deplaned, refueled, reviewing the release, boarded and pax safety briefed, doing a manual W&B, doors closed, chocks pulled and engine starting in about 4-5 minutes, with an moderately experienced crew you could do this without rushing. If nobody got off or on, the turn could be done in 1 or 2 minutes without rushing. Of course with new crews, things were a little bit slower. __________________ Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from surviving bad judgement.

May 9th, 2008, 15:01	#32
av8sean Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Toronto/DTW Posts: 479	Re: How intense is IOE? IOE wasn't hard, and I usually take about 10-15 mins on the CRJ for the walk around and FMS. Maybe a little longer if I'm lazy or doing first-flight. __________________ The pilots life is founded on three things: sex, seniority, and salary, in that order. Dr. Ludwig Lederer, corporate physician, American Airlines.

May 9th, 2008, 16:31	#35
P&H Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 256	Re: How intense is IOE? You learn the tricks of the trade on the line. Good IOE captains will show you ways to work efficiently and quickly. For example: I start the paperwork for the following flight on the way to the outstation. Our turns are typically 30 minutes (on our plane, at least). A bulk of the information for each Load Manifest can be filled in without the release. Doing this alone can save a couple of minutes for quick turns. As soon as we land, I get the times logged, the release is usually handed to us through our hatch as soon as the parking brake is set, I get the numbers in the (half completed already) form (no ACARS or FMS on the ATR), usually it's the same ATIS as when we arrived, get the clearance... This all takes about 3 minutes maybe? Hop out, do the post/pre flight, get back in, wait for 15 minutes to get the Cargo Loads, finish the numbers, spin the wheel, and ready for engine start. When you're doing 5 to 6 legs a day, you get very efficient and you get into a flow/groove.

May 9th, 2008, 19:17	#36
USMC-SGT Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: East Posts: 1,019	Re: How intense is IOE? It took a bit to get used to of course to find out the best order but my flow is (few tricks included.) On the way in for an airport that doesnt differentiate from departure to arrival atis and you dont have D-atis..skip the atis, if it hasnt changed you already have it from the approach you just have to verify it hasnt changed to a special or within the hour. Once you land and checklist are done, fly outside with the first of the pax and do the walkaround. For those not in 121 it is not a standard walkaround since you cant reach or see most parts it truely is just a walk around where you do a good visual inspection of all the important parts and make sure nothing fell off or broke on the last flight. As soon as you hop back in the plane get the clearance (if you do 30 minute turns it is all ready to go if not and it is before 30 minutes skip to the next step.) Enter the clearance as filed. I save most flight plans because they are canned or just copy them off the release into the FMS so all I have to do is load it If you copy it off the release we typically get as filed but it is alot easier to make a few changes than enter the whole thing. In any downtime or if there isnt any I will start with the runway data into the acars since I have the atis already I can enter the runway in use and any other 2 runways we may get. I also will go ahead and enter the fuel into the fuel page and have it loaded up to the weight and balance section so once we get the loadsheet and the count I just have to enter it and hit send. Total breakdown: "In" time to being able to get off and preflight ~4 minutes Preflight ~4 minutes or so Atis and clearance ~2 minutes maybe more if you are at PIT since they tell you every one of the 17 taxiway closings Entering the flight plan ~1 minute Getting the fuel page and T/O data entered and getting the weight and balance set up ~2 minutes Total time to present :13 minutes For the next 7-10 minutes you just verify what youve done, do the departure briefing and discuss any changes, MELs, DMIs departure and destination weather and anything else you want to talk about and last but not least the agent hands you the load sheet and the girls in back hand you the count and you throw the numbers in and send them out and enter your data when it comes back. Close the doors, call for push and off you go. Granted that your mileage will vary because we have acars and EVERYTHING goes into it and gets spit back out so it would take a little more work obviously if you have to crank the wiz wheel for your numbers. __________________ .....i have two speeds, walk and kill

May 9th, 2008, 19:53	#37
jtrain609 Old Skool Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Park City, UT Posts: 12,100	Re: How intense is IOE? Naw you can spin the wheel pretty fast. Depending on the situation you can do a turn in under 15 minutes without being rushed, you just need to be efficient and have both guys on the same page. __________________ "I could stand at the end of the line of the general mills cereal plant to make sure that all the lucky charms are up to par for 38k a year." -snickersnwa

May 9th, 2008, 20:04	#38
Seggy Old Skool Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Somewhere in the Northeast Posts: 4,942	Re: How intense is IOE? WOW a fifteen minute turn. All hail to you I have done sub one minute turns. __________________ www.alpa.org

May 9th, 2008, 20:08	#39
jtrain609 Old Skool Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Park City, UT Posts: 12,100	Re: How intense is IOE? One day, I will hit you with a bus and then finally bring proof to the world that sasquatch has been killed! __________________ "I could stand at the end of the line of the general mills cereal plant to make sure that all the lucky charms are up to par for 38k a year." -snickersnwa

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