Just when you think he couldn't get any more annoying....

[Grabo172]

Just another kick in the groin from our moron we call a president... (or our president we call a moron)

White House: No user fees, no signature

By AOPA ePublishing staff

As the Senate began debate on the FAA funding bill in a spirit of bipartisan cooperation, that same spirit apparently didn’t extend to the White House.

The president’s top advisors made it very clear on April 29 that if Congress sends him a bill that does not include user fees, and does not give the airlines greater control over the air traffic control system, they want him to veto the FAA funding legislation.

The White House once again cited its failed FAA funding bill as the model, and said the legislation currently under consideration by Congress does not align “FAA’s revenues with its costs through fair fees linked to usage of the system,” nor does it include “a broader set of aviation stakeholders in the oversight and management” of the air traffic control system. (Administration proposals would give the majority users of air traffic control—the airlines—also majority say in ATC management.)

The “Statement of Administration Policy” also objected to increased Airport Improvement Program funding and took issue with the labor provisions in the House version of the FAA funding bill. “If the President is presented with a bill that not only excludes the critical reforms proposed by the Administration, but also includes provisions that would further exacerbate an untenable status quo, his senior advisors would recommend that he veto it,” according to the policy.

“We’re extremely disappointed that the administration continues clinging to discredited funding concepts that have no popular support from either the public or their elected representatives,” said AOPA President Phil Boyer. “The aviation industry and both parties in Congress are very close to reasonable compromises that ensure the future of the aviation system. For the administration to put that all at risk at this point is incomprehensible.”

The Senate is expected to finish its version of an FAA funding bill this week. The House version was passed last September. Existing aviation taxes and FAA funding will expire June 30 if a new funding bill is not signed into law before then.

[PCL_128]

The reasons he gives for vetoing the bill are bull----. The real reason is the labor provisions for NATCA. This president refuses to give the slightest little bit of help to labor. I guarantee if the NATCA provisions were removed, he'd be happy to sign the bill, user fees or not.

Vote pro-labor in November.

[Clocks]

Hey, nobody is perfect

/ducks

[kellwolf]

Wait. Didn't he promise WAY back when he was first running for office that he wouldn't do the "user fee" thing to get AOPA's backing? That was pre-flying for me, but I think I heard/read that somewhere.

Not that I'm really surprised. This is coming from a guy who had no clue gas prices had gone as high as they had.....

[CaptainCrickettMan]

I wonder, where do the airlines think they are going to get pilots if they get control of ATC and screw the GA pilots with outrageous fees? It will create a huge pilot shortage.

[Henri Pablo]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrickettMan

I wonder, where do the airlines think they are going to get pilots if they get control of ATC and screw the GA pilots with outrageous fees? It will create a huge pilot shortage.

... China? India? Home D...t parking lot?

I'm sorry if it offended anyone

[sdfcvoh]

Listen up, people. I don't care what your opinions about this situation are. I don't care how much you like or dislike what the future holds if we add huge user fees to GA. I'm just sick of people questioning the president.

If you don't support our president, the terrorists win, the devil wins, gays will run wild in the streets, the Martians will invade, and your taxes will increase.

Period.

[777forever]

The beginning of ab initio arrival into the USA

[OldTownPilot]

Originally Posted by sdfcvoh

Listen up, people. I don't care what your opinions about this situation are. I don't care how much you like or dislike what the future holds if we add huge user fees to GA. I'm just sick of people questioning the president.

If you don't support our president, the terrorists win, the devil wins, gays will run wild in the streets, the Martians will invade, and your taxes will increase.

Period.

Oh, yeah....in case you couldn't tell....extreme .

Just say it....You hate Amurika.

[sdfcvoh]

Originally Posted by OldTownPilot

Just say it....You hate Amurika.

I knew I forgot to add something to that post.

[Henri Pablo]

... couple of months ago I attended one of the 'town meetings' with the AOPA president and part of his presentation included the issue of declining number of people getting into aviation and getting certificated. Hi showed a graph with a steadily declining line. Hence one of their (AOPA) ideas for 'reversing' the trend: advertising campaign targeting golfers, boaters and such.

At that moment I got up and left, almost popped a vain. I really admire the work AOPA is doing regard to the funding bill, but unfortunately that's only a small part of the issue. Even if they we/they win this battle, the war is going to be lost (for a lack of a better metaphor at the moment).

[Wittmandriver]

This is precisely why am am growing more and more anti-airline every day. Somehow, my Commander in Chief has been convinced that the best way to go is to get rid of a system that is proven time and time again. Why break something that isn't broke? The airlines, with their lobbyists, think that free reign of the skies is going to solve all their problems.

I have just as much right to be in the air as they do, and I do stay out of their way (I am a little guy that would not amount to much more than a bug splatter on their windshield) and cause the least heart-ache I can to ATC by voluntarily flying around airspace incuring more cost on myself. Maybe I should stop...

What I do not deserve to do is pay MUCH more money for something I enjoy doing so some corporate conglomerate can make another buck. Golfers, boaters, off-road enthusiats, etc don't do that, so why should I.

I am all for airline re-regulation. Oh, that would hurt them, wouldn't it? What's the difference in that to what they are trying to do to me?

Wittmandriver

[flyguy]

Originally Posted by Henri Pablo

... China? India?

Well, probably not, seeing as those countries are sending their pilots here for training since they don't have much GA to speak of.

[Grabo172]

Originally Posted by flyguy

Well, probably not, seeing as those countries are sending their pilots here for training since they don't have much GA to speak of.

That's exactly the point... we're going to end up like those countries and GA will all but vanish... We'll have to go to Australia to get trained...

Let's hope this all gets postponed until next Jan when new blood is in the white house and the moron has gone back to TX to herd in his oil millions...

[SmoothLanderJ]

Originally Posted by OldTownPilot

Just say it....You hate Amurika.

LOL!!.......

[Wittmandriver]

No country in this world that I know of is user fee-free. We have one and it is called a landing fee, however 99% of all airports do not have one. I don't want any more.
I'll have to lean left on this one

Wittmandriver

[ozziecat35]

Originally Posted by Henri Pablo

... China? India? Home D...t parking log?

I'm sorry if it offended anyone

Are you from Phoenix too!!!??? I'm sorry, I couldn't resist....

[dc3flyer]

Originally Posted by Grabo172

Just another kick in the groin from our moron we call a president... (or our president we call a moron)

Just for the record, this doesn't even have George's name in it....

The president’s top advisors made it very clear on April 29 that if Congress sends him a bill that does not include user fees, and does not give the airlines greater control over the air traffic control system, they want him to veto the FAA funding legislation.

[tonyw]

Originally Posted by Wittmandriver

I am all for airline re-regulation. Oh, that would hurt them, wouldn't it? What's the difference in that to what they are trying to do to me?

Actually, I think it would benefit the airlines. A lot.

No more having to cut your prices to low low levels that don't cover the price of providing your service. The CAB tells you, you will charge x dollars to fly this route and that's it, and you do it.

The other thing that cracks me up is this is supposedly the solution to congestion and delays and so on.

Uh, no. If there aren't enough gates to put planes at, then you can go direct from LA to New York but it ain't gonna jacksquat when you can't let your passengers off because you can't park at a gate!

[Grabo172]

Originally Posted by dc3flyer

Just for the record, this doesn't even have George's name in it....

You really think he won't do what his advisers (babysitters) tell him to do?

[Henri Pablo]

Originally Posted by flyguy

Well, probably not, seeing as those countries are sending their pilots here for training since they don't have much GA to speak of.

... I don't think an 'organic' environment like our GA is an absolute necessity to produce pilots. We have a lot of people going through schools designed specifically to get people from zero to hero in as short a time as possible.

It's a bit far fetched possibility to think that a regime of an overpopulated empire would start farm raising pilots though. The disturbing thing is they just have to keep doing what they're doing to gain even greater political and economic leverage.

The biggest obstacle to such an economic coup would be of a political and public relations nature. But it's very doable. Big wheels turn slow and it could be just a matter of time.

If I told someone 10-15 years ago, that in a bit of time folks will fly jets with 400-500 TT for less than minimum wage I'd be labeled insane.

[flyguy]

Well guys there is a bright side if this does come to pass. As some mentioned there will be fewer GA pilots which means a pilot shortage. That means salaries are gonna have to come up. Especially since airlines will look a lot more to the military to attract pilots, they are going to have to give the military pilots some incentive to leave a stable job with good pay and a pention, much like they did in the early days. Not that I'm in favor of user fees by any means. GA has given me so much I would hate to see it die, and I would love to continue to fly small airplanes, maybe even own one someday, but worst case scenerio, the cloud does have a silver lining.

[kellwolf]

I think the sad fact is that GA is ALREADY out of reach of Joe Average Middle Class. If I were to look into training today, there's no way I'd be able to afford it. The cost of a Seminole has gone up $100 an HOUR since I finished in 2005. Most of that is due to fuel prices. Even if the user fee-free bill gets signed by the Executive branch, it's gonna jack fuel prices even more with an additional tax. That's gonna put it even more out of reach. The cost analysis of people starting training now seems, to me, flawed at best. It costs $68K right now to go from zero-to-hero at ATP (based on their web site). That's nearly DOUBLE what it was when I was looking into going there 3 years ago. The loan payments alone will put you in the poor house as a first year regional FO.....assuming anyone is hiring.

[phoenix 23684]

I know this sounds silly to most, but has anyone in here written an e-mail to the white house voicing their concerns, if we all did, it may send a message, specially to the media. Again everyone complains but do little, I challenge everyone that does not wish this to come true to do something about it. Write your local news, representatives, white house.

[trafficinsight]

Originally Posted by kellwolf

I think the sad fact is that GA is ALREADY out of reach of Joe Average Middle Class. If I were to look into training today, there's no way I'd be able to afford it. The cost of a Seminole has gone up $100 an HOUR since I finished in 2005. Most of that is due to fuel prices. Even if the user fee-free bill gets signed by the Executive branch, it's gonna jack fuel prices even more with an additional tax. That's gonna put it even more out of reach. The cost analysis of people starting training now seems, to me, flawed at best. It costs $68K right now to go from zero-to-hero at ATP (based on their web site). That's nearly DOUBLE what it was when I was looking into going there 3 years ago. The loan payments alone will put you in the poor house as a first year regional FO.....assuming anyone is hiring.

I'm Joe Average lower class and if I had to start learning to fly today I couldn't afford it, period.

When I started, the 172 I was flying was 49$ an hour wet. That same airplane now is 85$ an hour wet... and that's the best price anywhere around, possibly anywhere in the U.S. The 49$ wouldn't even cover the fuel now. The days of being able to work your way through flight training are almost gone.

We were cleaning out the hangar a couple months back where I work and I found an old price list, in 1999 the Duchess was 120$ an hour, and you could rent a Seneca for 130$, 310M for 150$ an hour, or a turbo Aztec for 170$. Today the Duchess is 230$ an hour, the Seneca and the 310 are gone, and the Aztec has been in pieces in the hangar for about 5 years now, and even if you did want to rent them, they'd want absolutely ridiculous minimums for insurance.