$$ Loan Advise $$

[aviatorrbt]

Greetings all,
I need a loan for my flight training. I already have read plenty of threads about other options but I have decided that I am getting a loan. Therefore, has anybody had any bad experiences with PilotFinance or Sallie Mae? Those are my two main options right now. However, I know somebody who is going with PilotFinance and her application was accepted for a $8,000 loan and she still hasn't got her $ in over a month and a half. This is concerning me because I need my loan ASAP. I know I should have applied earlier but was unable due to school, work, and a little sprinkle of laziness. Therefore, I need a loan that has relatively low rates and that can deal out the money fast. Any suggestions?

[v1valarob]

Originally Posted by aviatorrbt

Greetings all,
I need a loan for my flight training. I already have read plenty of threads about other options but I have decided that I am getting a loan. Therefore, has anybody had any bad experiences with PilotFinance or Sallie Mae? Those are my two main options right now. However, I know somebody who is going with PilotFinance and her application was accepted for a $8,000 loan and she still hasn't got her $ in over a month and a half. This is concerning me because I need my loan ASAP. I know I should have applied earlier but was unable due to school, work, and a little sprinkle of laziness. Therefore, I need a loan that has relatively low rates and that can deal out the money fast. Any suggestions?

Well Sallie Mae is a bitch. She has no problem dealing the money out, but you will pay in the end. I don't think Sallie Mae approves loans for you to use just anywhere. You'll have to go to a school and see if they and Sallie Loan work together.

If your going to take out a loan, join a credit union and ask them for one.

But in the end loans suck, and if you can try not to get one, don't. Although I know I wouldn't be where I am right now if I didn't take out a loan.

-Rob

[ladder360]

Originally Posted by v1valarob

Well Sallie Mae is a bitch. She has no problem dealing the money out, but you will pay in the end. I don't think Sallie Mae approves loans for you to use just anywhere. You'll have to go to a school and see if they and Sallie Loan work together.

If your going to take out a loan, join a credit union and ask them for one.

But in the end loans suck, and if you can try not to get one, don't. Although I know I wouldn't be where I am right now if I didn't take out a loan.

-Rob

Are you needing money to attend a part 141 school? I'm not sure how realistic this is or exactly the specifics, but is there a community college you can get your training through where you can explore other types of student financing?

I know Sallie Mae can charge as much as 14%!! When you're talking about only borrowing a few K, that can be manageable, but when you're talking about the many thousands needed for flight, that could really kill you over the next decade or two. 14% means that unless you can drastically reduce your principle balance, you're doubling the amount owed every 6 years! Like Rob said, she's a bitch!

[aviatorrbt]

I think I have decided not to go with Sallie Mae before you both even said anything just from what people have told me and looking at the website. I am glad to hear that my assumptions were correct. I will be using a part 61 school because my total hours (150ish logged) do not truly make sense for me to go to a 141 school. I talked a guy who ran a 141 school and he said for my instrument and commercial I would have to be dropped from the 141 standards and take my checkrides as part 61. So I decided not to use 141. Additionally I work for a part 61 flight school with a pretty good discount (about 15-20%).

Has anyone used the Wachovia education loan? I am using them right now for my college financing and I am sure I could borrow a wee bit more. I did read yesterday that a person trying to get a Wachovia loan wrote that they were not giving out flight loans anymore, but other people said that was not true.

[Airdale]

Loan advice? Don't get one. Nothing like clearing $1200 a month at a Regional only to spend half of that on a loan.

[killbilly]

Originally Posted by aviatorrbt

Has anyone used the Wachovia education loan? I am using them right now for my college financing and I am sure I could borrow a wee bit more. I did read yesterday that a person trying to get a Wachovia loan wrote that they were not giving out flight loans anymore, but other people said that was not true.

TERI was the organization that filed for Chapter 11 reorg protection, and I believe Wachovia was the underwriter for those loans. I might be wrong, but I think that's how it worked.

I would suggest picking up the phone and calling Wachovia directly and seeing what they say. Direct from the source, y'know.

[sixoneseven]

I believe Sallie Mae is currently at 9%

[Matt13C]

For people who took loans out to fly at an FBO what is your total amount? I know pilot shops charge in excess of 60k but I think I can finish under that but I am not sure. My PPL will cost me roughly 10K. It is high I know but I chose a place a little more expensive with an instructor I felt comfortable with. I feel like the Instrument, Multi and Commercial can be had for roughly 20k. Does that sound about right, am I under? I hope to work for an FBO and get my CFI and any further ratings at a discount and pay as I go, I don't want any substantial debt.

Also, there is a place offering an Instrument package for 5K, it includes 40 hours wet, 15 hours dual and a few other things. I thought you could not fly IFR or even simulated IFR without an Instructor or another private pilot not under a hood? I still think that is a good deal though, even if I have to pay the extra 1k for dual time.

[jwp_145]

OH I LOVE IT WHEN PEOPLE ASK FOR LOAN ADVICE AND PEOPLE JOIN IN SAYING "DON'T GET LOANS IF YOU CAN AVOID IT."

SERIOUSLY? LIKE YOU REALLY MEAN THAT? BECAUSE, SEE, I NEVER THOUGHT OF THAT. IT NEVER EVER OCCURRED TO ME THAT IT WOULD BE IN MY BEST INTEREST TO PAY FOR THINGS OUT OF MY OWN POCKET WITHOUT BORROWING MONEY.

START TELLING THE AIRLINES THAT THEY NEED TO CHARGE MORE FOR SEATS BECAUSE THEY HAVEN'T FIGURED IT OUT YET, CAPT. OBVIOUS.

Matt13C, that sounds like a lot for a PPL from an FBO. Instrument, Multi, and Comm for an additional 20K, yes that is very do-able.

The trick with loans is to OBVIOUSLY borrow as little as possible with the lowest rate possible, again this is OBVIOUS. Just spend accordingly, but more importanly you should BORROW accordingly.

And AIRDALE, no one told you to take a job for crap paywith a tremendous loan payment. Simple math says that was a bad choice. Like when my XJET buddy complains that he is making $1200 a month based in Newark with an $800/month student loan payment. Well, he is the idiot who took that job/paid$80K at Spartan, etc.

So to the OP, do your homework from the beginning and don't enter into tremendous amounts of debt with the unrealistic expectation of paying it off at a regional.

Would I flight instruct if I could survive on a regional salary? Well no, but could I survive on a regional salary and pay my loans? Well no, so I would not try=I won't complain about not being able to do it.

[Matt13C]

Originally Posted by jwp_145

OH I LOVE IT WHEN PEOPLE ASK FOR LOAN ADVICE AND PEOPLE JOIN IN SAYING "DON'T GET LOANS IF YOU CAN AVOID IT."

SERIOUSLY? LIKE YOU REALLY MEAN THAT? BECAUSE, SEE, I NEVER THOUGHT OF THAT. IT NEVER EVER OCCURRED TO ME THAT IT WOULD BE IN MY BEST INTEREST TO PAY FOR THINGS OUT OF MY OWN POCKET WITHOUT BORROWING MONEY.

START TELLING THE AIRLINES THAT THEY NEED TO CHARGE MORE FOR SEATS BECAUSE THEY HAVEN'T FIGURED IT OUT YET, CAPT. OBVIOUS.

Matt13C, that sounds like a lot for a PPL from an FBO. Instrument, Multi, and Comm for an additional 20K, yes that is very do-able.

Yeah, I know it is a lot. I wanted to fly out of a towered field and wanted a life time instructor for my private. The choices were very limited. I am very happy with the instruction I received and flying out of a controlled field has given me one less thing to worry about as I move forward with training.

My only problem is now I feel bad moving on to a new instructor as I am very comfortable with my current one. But I also can not justify another 10k spent on a rating that can be had for 5-6K.

[UPSpilot]

Originally Posted by sixoneseven

I believe Sallie Mae is currently at 9%

Hey, LOVE your avatar!

[jwp_145]

Don't feel bad moving on to a new instructor. Having multiple instructors allows you to take the good from each one while realizing what you didn't like with last.

[fly4food84]

Loans can be expensive, but sometimes it's either sell your soul to the bank and fly a lot or don't fly enough, if at all.

Don't feel bad about moving on to another CFI. You'll probably have many. I've had about eight or so. I still keep in contact with most.

[cfii2007]

Regarding loans, just remember you aren't going to make much the first few years if you decide to take the CFI/135/regional route.

Budget accordingly.

[aviatorrbt]

I don't really plan to take out that much as it is. Less than 10G. I am not that worried about money after I get my tickets, I am almost positive I have a job lined up. I was actually told by a good friend of mine that I would have a job if I had my commercial.

Thanks for the advise everyone, well not everyone. I said in my first post that I was going to take out a loan, not that I was thinking about it!!

[JA Yawd Bwoy]

Not to veer off course but what is the average cost (speciffically in the Northeast if possible) for the individually

PPL-?

Intrument-?

Commercial-?

Multi-?

CFI-?

CFII-?

MEI-?

Oh and I notice everyone has said pay as you go, but to me it is not that easy makin 7.15 a hour to pay as I go, does it hurt to say take atleast say a 15K loan? with a 10% loan that is 16,500$, is that a bad scenario? Please don't attack I am just trying to figure out how these Loan Companies work, and like aviatorrbt, find out which one is the best if there is a best

[aviatorrbt]

JA,
for those of us who have to do it by ourselves, it really is difficult to pay as you go when you do make about 7 an hour. I started my first job at $7.10 washing dishes. The summer after I took another job to save up and start my flight training. And now I'm over 150 hours. Bottom line, go with what is cheapest and safe. I got my PPL in a c152 and built most of my hours doing safety pilot stuff with buddies. Don't get discouraged flying a plane that was built in the 1960's because it can be just as safe as a brand new plane coming off the lot, perhaps even safer. You could get a fat loan and get your license in a 2008 G1000 C172 paying a lot per hour or fly an older plane (such as I did) and pay about $50 less an hour... $50less for an olderplane X 40 hours = $2000 saved.

That does not mean go out and find the cheapest plane you can get, just look for a cheaper alternative that is just as safe.

Luke

[Matt13C]

Originally Posted by JA Yawd Bwoy

Not to veer off course but what is the average cost (speciffically in the Northeast if possible) for the individually

PPL-?

Intrument-?

Commercial-?

Multi-?

CFI-?

CFII-?

MEI-?

Oh and I notice everyone has said pay as you go, but to me it is not that easy makin 7.15 a hour to pay as I go, does it hurt to say take atleast say a 15K loan? with a 10% loan that is 16,500$, is that a bad scenario? Please don't attack I am just trying to figure out how these Loan Companies work, and like aviatorrbt, find out which one is the best if there is a best

I can't give you actual costs for any but the private. I spent roughly 10k, which is very high. I think it can be had for around 6-8 if you find a small place that flies a 152. I chose a small place but they fly out of a controlled field so they have alot of fees smaller places don't have, plus they fly 172's and have lifetime instructors who make more than the wet CFI.

The prices I have been quoted for the instrument is roughly the same as PPL, 6-8K. Commercial I am told is more expensive since you have to take it in a complex aircraft. This could be wrong, I am new like you, hopefully others will chime in. Multi can be had for 2-5K depending on how many hours you need or want.

After that I think the best bet is to get a job at the FBO and get a nice discount on the instructor ratings.

On the issue of loans, do not be too stressed out. I think at most I will have 30k in loans. If I use the Wachovia program it is roughly $50 for every 5K borrowed. So 30 will net me a 300 a month payment. That may sound like a lot but think of all the Embry riddle kids who are 150k in debt or the people who spent 80k on a pilot shop. It may not be comfortable the first year, but it is certainly manageable.

Think of it as an investment in yourself. An investment that is extremely fun!

[killbilly]

Originally Posted by JA Yawd Bwoy

Oh and I notice everyone has said pay as you go, but to me it is not that easy makin 7.15 a hour to pay as I go, does it hurt to say take atleast say a 15K loan? with a 10% loan that is 16,500$, is that a bad scenario? Please don't attack I am just trying to figure out how these Loan Companies work, and like aviatorrbt, find out which one is the best if there is a best

Note, for the record, that I'm not telling anyone not to take out a loan - that's what you want to do, so here's some helpful information. JA threw out some raw numbers here and you need to know what you're getting into.
15K @ 10% is not 16,500 - It's 19,122.60 over the life of the loan on a 5-year (60 month) payment plan - each payment would be $318.71.

Okay, so let's say you extend that loan to 72 months to lower your payment.

Now, you're paying $277.89 per month, but the total on the loan is $20,008.

This does not include any of the origination fees and stuff that some loan companies charge.

Go to BankRate.Com and play with the loan calculators (which is where these numbers came from) to see what the real cost is of actually borrowing the money.

Good luck to you.

[JA Yawd Bwoy]

Originally Posted by Matt13C

I can't give you actual costs for any but the private. I spent roughly 10k, which is very high. I think it can be had for around 6-8 if you find a small place that flies a 152. I chose a small place but they fly out of a controlled field so they have alot of fees smaller places don't have, plus they fly 172's and have lifetime instructors who make more than the wet CFI.

The prices I have been quoted for the instrument is roughly the same as PPL, 6-8K. Commercial I am told is more expensive since you have to take it in a complex aircraft. This could be wrong, I am new like you, hopefully others will chime in. Multi can be had for 2-5K depending on how many hours you need or want.

After that I think the best bet is to get a job at the FBO and get a nice discount on the instructor ratings.

On the issue of loans, do not be too stressed out. I think at most I will have 30k in loans. If I use the Wachovia program it is roughly $50 for every 5K borrowed. So 30 will net me a 300 a month payment. That may sound like a lot but think of all the Embry riddle kids who are 150k in debt or the people who spent 80k on a pilot shop. It may not be comfortable the first year, but it is certainly manageable.

Think of it as an investment in yourself. An investment that is extremely fun!

Is Wachovia betther than SLM? Century Air is a SLM user, does this mean that I cannot use Wachovia there? because the best loan company out there is what I am looking for because like you said about the first year at a regional I want it to be atleast manageable! Oh wait, what about college? Is it possible to take two loans out at a time? Wow all this financial talk is creeping me out, I'm goin to bed!

[JA Yawd Bwoy]

Originally Posted by killbilly

Note, for the record, that I'm not telling anyone not to take out a loan - that's what you want to do, so here's some helpful information. JA threw out some raw numbers here and you need to know what you're getting into.
15K @ 10% is not 16,500 - It's 19,122.60 over the life of the loan on a 5-year (60 month) payment plan - each payment would be $318.71.

Okay, so let's say you extend that loan to 72 months to lower your payment.

Now, you're paying $277.89 per month, but the total on the loan is $20,008.

This does not include any of the origination fees and stuff that some loan companies charge.

Go to BankRate.Com and play with the loan calculators (which is where these numbers came from) to see what the real cost is of actually borrowing the money.

Good luck to you.

Thanks alot!, Wow now I'm really Scared ,I hope I don't have nightmares tonite!

btw which Calculator did you use? Can I have a link? there are alot!

[charlie1017]

Originally Posted by JA Yawd Bwoy

does it hurt to say take atleast say a 15K loan? with a 10% loan that is 16,500$, is that a bad scenario?

A $15K loan at 10% interest being paid monthly for 10 years yields a cumulative payment of almost $24K not $16,500. So you end up paying almost $9K in interests...
BTW I used a loan calculator:

http://www.collegeanswer.com/financi...p_monthrep.jsp



Edit: killbilly beat me to it LOL

[killbilly]

Originally Posted by JA Yawd Bwoy

Thanks alot!, Wow now I'm really Scared ,I hope I don't have nightmares tonite!

btw which Calculator did you use? Can I have a link? there are alot!

Go to Bankrate.com - there's a big tab to "Calculators" which will bring up little applets for every kind of loan calculation you could want.

I used the auto loan calculator because it's quick and easy - they don't have anything specific for education loans. But you need to remember that education loans often have origination fees and stuff tacked onto the loan. Still - the important part to look at is the payment amortization schedule - that will show you exactly how much goes to principal vs. interest. You can also calc how much an extra payment here and there will help you.

I've been a big anti-loan guy around here, but I have to concede that given a lot of people's situations, it's tough to come up with the money for flying when you're not making a lot of money.

If I was going to take out a loan for flying, what I would do is take loans out in small bites - $5-7k, train, pay it off. Lather, rinse, repeat. As you progress in your job and get older, earn more, this becomes easier to do.

[Matt13C]

Originally Posted by JA Yawd Bwoy

Is Wachovia betther than SLM? Century Air is a SLM user, does this mean that I cannot use Wachovia there? because the best loan company out there is what I am looking for because like you said about the first year at a regional I want it to be atleast manageable! Oh wait, what about college? Is it possible to take two loans out at a time? Wow all this financial talk is creeping me out, I'm goin to bed!

I think they are about the same. From looking at Wachovia they do not have any origination fees or any other fees. Most places, I think SLM included, charges you a certain amount so while you make borrow 10k you may only get 9500. Also, the Wachovia seemed to have a better rate for the credit score I have, may not for you. Both offer longer pay periods of 15-20 years, but I would not suggest taking that long to pay off. It makes it managable for the first few years then as your salary increases you simply pay more, get it paid off early and save lots of interest.

Loans are scary and being in debt sucks. But look at it this way. If you went to college and then to grad school or med school you would easily be 100K+ in debt and still have no gaurantee to make a large sum of money your first few years out. I have friends who have that kind of debt and are making 30-40k a few years out, so it does not matter what you do, debt will most likely be a part of it. Also, that 100k+ translates into over 200K in loan payments, so it is not just flight lessons that will cost you a large sum in interest. We all don't have a silver spoon or a well paying job that offeres the required flexibility.

You have the right mindset though, get it done right at the best price and youll be fine.

[Airdale]

Originally Posted by jwp_145

And AIRDALE, no one told you to take a job for crap paywith a tremendous loan payment. Simple math says that was a bad choice. Like when my XJET buddy complains that he is making $1200 a month based in Newark with an $800/month student loan payment. Well, he is the idiot who took that job/paid$80K at Spartan, etc.

So to the OP, do your homework from the beginning and don't enter into tremendous amounts of debt with the unrealistic expectation of paying it off at a regional.

Would I flight instruct if I could survive on a regional salary? Well no, but could I survive on a regional salary and pay my loans? Well no, so I would not try=I won't complain about not being able to do it.

Hey! Thanks for the arrogant callout. In fact, you're entire post is quite arrogant.

I went to ATP and did the whole "get an airline job fast deal - just sign here!" If given the chance to do it over, I would have went somewhere else and focused on the cheapest route, not the fastest one. Yes, loans are evil and the less money you can borrow the better off you are. I'm just pointing out the obvious, that first year Regional pay sucks and its barely enough to pay for the big loan. Tell me, oh wise one, what Airline job starts you off making anything but "crap" pay?