MY Pilot Rant....

Qgar · April 26th, 2008, 12:15

OK, remember a while back, our fearless leader started a FA rant thread? Now it's MY turn.
First off, I think most of you know by now that I think you guys are great. I love working with you and respect the job you do day in and day out. The enormous responsibilities you undertake everyday garners my utmost respect and admiration.

HOWEVER, once in a while even I come across one who makes me shake my head in disbelief. No disrespect to the freight dawgs, but there are some people who are better suited to working alone.
I'd rather not go into too much detail but part of being an "airline pilot" involves working as a CREW and having each other's back. If you can't handle that and feel that pax and your own FA's are a minor annoyance to you, FIND ANOTHER JOB!
Here's the scenario. The other FA and me are sitting in a crew room for an hour and a half between flights (with a crew change). I leave to go to the ladies room, come back and the new pilots who were in the room with us for about 30 minutes left without a word. (They never inquired as to who their FA's were). We go to the gate a few minutes later and when he see us, the other FA hears him say, "never mind, here they come." We have to assume he called CS to say we weren't there yet. WTF?
Oh, it gets better. Even though we were pretty much on schedule, all he did was rush us without ONCE offering to help out. Without going into too much detail, I had to explain to him that we had certain procedures that had to be followed and we WERE doing them.

I'd better not get a call from our Inflight Manager chewing me out for not showing up for a flight on time!

Thanks, I feel better now....

calcapt · April 26th, 2008, 12:38

I agree that challenging crew members can make a great job miserable. I am pretty laid back and give crew members pretty wide latitude knowing that we all have our bad days; however, if it is obvious that they are just choosing to be bitchy or rude to the passengers, I usually ask if there is a problem and if they would like to continue on the trip. If it is not resolved fast, they are gone. This goes for FOs as well. Pilots should be held to the same standards as FAs. Thankfully, there are not too many of these folks around. Crews who take care of each other are happier and safer. I hope if I ever behave like this, my fellow crew members will care enough to tell me I am being a pain. As I said earlier, we all have our days...

SeanD · April 26th, 2008, 12:40

Good to see you back around calcapt

calcapt · April 26th, 2008, 15:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeanD

Good to see you back around calcapt

I missed you too.

SpiraMirabilis · April 26th, 2008, 16:10

Flight Attendants are really the more important crew member in terms of how people view your airline which directly impacts how likely they are to return. Pilots are important in terms of you need them to conduct operations (in the same way you need a yaw damper to conduct operations) but in many ways we're extremely fungible and have standardized skill sets.

There is that same aspect to a flight attendants safety-related duties as well (they are required and are standardized) but overall the FA has more of an opportunity to interact and be themselves. Because of this I always try to do all I can to help out, or if they don't need any help just to be pleasant and personable and I try to be a person that I would want to spend a few days with primarily because I think they have a really hard job. Maybe its just because I'm a little bit more introverted than the average but I think it would be rather stressful job to interact with nearly forty strangers day after day for the entire flight.

To make things short: There is a reason that CRM means Crew Resource Management and not Cockpit Resource Management.

Qgar · April 26th, 2008, 16:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by calcapt

I agree that challenging crew members can make a great job miserable. I am pretty laid back and give crew members pretty wide latitude knowing that we all have our bad days; however, if it is obvious that they are just choosing to be bitchy or rude to the passengers, I usually ask if there is a problem and if they would like to continue on the trip. If it is not resolved fast, they are gone. This goes for FOs as well. Pilots should be held to the same standards as FAs. Thankfully, there are not too many of these folks around. Crews who take care of each other are happier and safer. I hope if I ever behave like this, my fellow crew members will care enough to tell me I am being a pain. As I said earlier, we all have our days...

Oh, I couldn't agree more. I've seen some of my favorite CA's having a bad day---and not once was it taken out on us. You have to know though, Calcapt, that this behavior is typical for this CA. I understand he's "quiet," but there is NO excuse for the tactics he employs. I'm sure you'll agree that telling us to skip some our duties is totally unacceptable.

Qgar · April 26th, 2008, 16:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpiraMirabilis

Flight Attendants are really the more important crew member in terms of how people view your airline which directly impacts how likely they are to return. Pilots are important in terms of you need them to conduct operations (in the same way you need a yaw damper to conduct operations) but in many ways we're extremely fungible and have standardized skill sets.

There is that same aspect to a flight attendants safety-related duties as well (they are required and are standardized) but overall the FA has more of an opportunity to interact and be themselves. Because of this I always try to do all I can to help out, or if they don't need any help just to be pleasant and personable and I try to be a person that I would want to spend a few days with primarily because I think they have a really hard job. Maybe its just because I'm a little bit more introverted than the average but I think it would be rather stressful job to interact with nearly forty strangers day after day for the entire flight.

To make things short: There is a reason that CRM means Crew Resource Management and not Cockpit Resource Management.

Thank you, THANK YOU!!! I'm sure you're an absolute joy to fly with!

RightSeatGirl · April 26th, 2008, 16:39

Well I have worked on both sides of the cockpit door and the F/A's have a much more difficult job then we do in the front office. Even back when I was an F/A which was pre-911 things were challenging. They bare the brunt of passenger dissatisfaction and have to work very hard to find a good balance between commanding and blunt when necessary and at the same time coming off as polite and professional. I've seen great F/A's and crap F/A's but thankfully most of ours are pretty good. We pretty much consider everything on their side of the door to be their turf where they are in charge. Some people think the C/A sets the tone for the whole crew. I really think it's the F/A that does.

mpenguin1 · April 26th, 2008, 16:43

During Captain Al Haynes CRM presentation, he praises the Flight Attendants that were on his flight & speaks highly of all Flight Attendants.

Qgar · April 26th, 2008, 17:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by mpenguin1

During Captain Al Haynes CRM presentation, he praises the Flight Attendants that were on his flight & speaks highly of all Flight Attendants.

Wow, what an incredibly smart man!

Seriously, from what I've heard he's extremely humble and soft-spoken. I can't wait to meet him!

NC_BE300 · April 26th, 2008, 18:16

We had a captain with us on a trip 2 weeks ago- after a decent long meal break- he went to the plane first, then me and the FA caught up with him moments later at the plane. I left my bags at the bottom of the stairs, did my walkaround, and then came up front. And as i'm getting set- (the FA is also putting her things away), passengers start boarding!!!!

This surprised the FA, and asked if i knew (which i didnt), then it became clear that the CA had called for boarding when she wasnt ready----and he wouldnt own up to it.
I hadn't even sat down in my seat-nor been within reach of the radio to call for boarding-so it wasnt on me.

The FA noticed this-and throughout the boarding process, between passengers, and before passing out the final paperwork- she proceded to hit him on the head with paperwork she had....

I really had to try and hold my laughing in while i did my work.

But seriously.....it sucked what he did without asking her first.

Qgar · April 26th, 2008, 18:25

Funny! Some people don't get the meaning of CREW equalling TEAM. Thank God crewmembers like this are in the minority.

germb747 · April 26th, 2008, 19:15

I'll play devil's advocate and ask the following:

1. Did you know these were your pilots in the crew room? If so, why didn't you make yourself known to them during the 30 minutes you were there together, especially if you thought you were running a little behind? If you didn't know these were your pilots, then how were they supposed to know you were their FAs? So they didn't say anything to you, but you didn't say anything to them either, so if I'm understanding your post correctly, you're both responsible for the communications breakdown (except they were on time).

2. Is it the pilots' responsibility to ensure you show to the jet on time? If you're not going to be there when they're expecting you, then the onus should be on you to make sure they know you're alive before they start looking for replacement crew members.

Okay, sorry if I sound like an ass, but I AM a Freight Dawg.

Qgar · April 26th, 2008, 19:34

Excuse me? The way it works in OUR crew room is the CA checks the computer to see about the inbound and tells the ENTIRE crew the a/c is in and let's walk to the gate. He NEVER did that and left with the FO when I was in the ladies room without even telling the other half dozen people in the crew room that he was going to the gate. We walked over a few minutes later and were by NO MEANS LATE. The inbound crew and the EWR cleaning crew does the cleanup of the a/c and if we go on the plane too soon, we just get in the way. For him to call ANYBODY to see where we were was so off base and unprofessional. Furthermore, for him to try to try to prevent us from performing our preflight duties is against every regulation.
Stop playing devil's advocate. You're not portraying yourself in a very good light.

And there we have it -- EXACTLY why some people shouldn't be airline pilots and should fly freight instead. If you don't have people skills and would rather not deal with us mere mortals, go elsewhere.
Better luck next time and thanks for playing!

calcapt · April 26th, 2008, 19:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qgar

Oh, I couldn't agree more. I've seen some of my favorite CA's having a bad day---and not once was it taken out on us. You have to know though, Calcapt, that this behavior is typical for this CA. I understand he's "quiet," but there is NO excuse for the tactics he employs. I'm sure you'll agree that telling us to skip some our duties is totally unacceptable.

There are crew members at every airline that everybody bids around because of their behavior or personalities. They never seem to change and the companies never seem to be able to get rid of them. It's always been like this and I suspect it will continue in the future. You wonder how these people ever got through the interview process. Many of these people have learned to behave when flying with check airman or being observed by a supervisor, then morph back into asses when they think they can get away with it. All you can really do is maintain your professionalism and document any unprofessional behavior on their part. Make sure you have a co-worker with you on any one-on-one interaction with someone like this captain so he/she will be able to back you up if he accuses you of anything contrary to company policy. You thought this FA stuff was all glamorous didn't you?

Qgar · April 26th, 2008, 19:37

Oh don't you worry, dear...I've covered my ass on this one....BTW, other Colganites who shall remain nameless think this guy is a complete tool.

Nah, I knew I'd have good days and bad days...but I'm so used to everyone else being pretty damned fabulous that this one always seems to get to me!

calcapt · April 26th, 2008, 19:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qgar

Oh don't you worry, dear...I've covered my ass on this one....BTW, other Colganites who shall remain nameless think this guy is a complete tool.

I hope my crews don't think of me this way. Captain Tool does not have a good ring to it.

Qgar · April 26th, 2008, 19:43

Having met the legend that is Calcapt---I highly doubt it!

germb747 · April 26th, 2008, 20:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qgar

Excuse me? The way it works in OUR crew room is the CA checks the computer to see about the inbound and tells the ENTIRE crew the a/c is in and let's walk to the gate. He NEVER did that and left with the FO when I was in the ladies room without even telling the other half dozen people in the crew room that he was going to the gate. We walked over a few minutes later and were by NO MEANS LATE. The inbound crew and the EWR cleaning crew does the cleanup of the a/c and if we go on the plane too soon, we just get in the way. For him to call ANYBODY to see where we were was so off base and unprofessional. Furthermore, for him to try to try to prevent us from performing our preflight duties is against every regulation.
Stop playing devil's advocate. You're not portraying yourself in a very good light.

And there we have it -- EXACTLY why some people shouldn't be airline pilots and should fly freight instead. If you don't have people skills and would rather not deal with us mere mortals, go elsewhere.
Better luck next time and thanks for playing!

My apologizes for not understanding the way it works in YOUR crewroom, and for having a different point of view. If you met me in person, you really wouldn't think I was a jerk

. I cover people's rears all the time, but I also expect people to take some personal responsibility. Okay, so I wasn't there and probably have no business commenting at all. I just assumed that if the captain was in fact looking for you by calling a supervisor, that perhaps you weren't there when you were supposed to be. Evidently, this particular captain does things differently, and the best way to stay out of trouble is to cover your own arse, because there are in fact people out there who just won't do it for you. You have the last word if you want it.

grnclvrs · April 26th, 2008, 20:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qgar

Oh don't you worry, dear...I've covered my ass on this one....BTW, other Colganites who shall remain nameless think this guy is a complete tool.

Nah, I knew I'd have good days and bad days...but I'm so used to everyone else being pretty damned fabulous that this one always seems to get to me!

Did RG transition already?

Qgar · April 26th, 2008, 20:31

OK, thanks for that! As for the last word, if he would have had any manners, he would have inquired in the Crew Room as to who was going to xxx with him, if he didn't bother to check the computer to see who his FA's were. I've flown with him before, he's deadheaded on flights I've worked so it's not like he's never seen my mug before. He just gives the appearance of not giving a crap about us and doesn't quite get our function within the big scheme of things. So, off he walks and when we show up at the gate EXACTLY when we're supposed to, he's already hitting the panic button. Oh, BTW, I've seen him do this to his FO's as well. To say he's very difficult to work with is an understatement. Oh yeah, he's also the only pilot I've ever worked with who has walked off the plane without saying a word to the FA's.
My conscience is clear and I have my supervisor to back me up.

Qgar · April 26th, 2008, 20:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by grnclvrs

Did RG transition already?

I have no idea who that is! Uh-oh, you mean there's another one who fits this description?

Alchemy · April 26th, 2008, 20:38

Most of my flight attendants probably hate me at first simply because I am not a morning person. When I get to the airport at 5AM I suck at making small talk and conversation. A lot of people take this as me being rude but it's simply a bad part of my personality. I am not great at making conversation at all, but at that time of the day I'm even worse. The stuff I do come up to talk about that early in the morning is just lame so I just say nice to meet you, how are you doing, and wait for the caffeine to kick in before I elaborate much.

After I've bought them a few drinks later in the trip on an overnight, I've had several F/A 's tell me that I make terrible first impressions and come off like an @ss at first. I always feel like a stiff when I give the F/A her brief before the first flight. Guess I need to throw some jokes in there or something.

Qgar · April 26th, 2008, 20:49

Please don't take my rant on this particular one to mean I don't like quiet pilots. Some of my closest pilot friends are the quiet, reserved ones.

There's a BIG difference between quiet and rude. Sorry if I'm giving any of you the wrong impression. I'm not THAT hard on my pilots, really!!!

Airdale · April 26th, 2008, 21:06

Some people are just tool bags. I've flown with a Captain already who completely ignored the FA's. When the hotel van dropped us off, he got his bags and went right into the terminal and headed to security. I actually waited for the two FA's to get their bags and we walked together. The Captain totally left the rest of us while he rushed down to the aircraft. We were early too, not like there was a rush. I thought the whole CREW concept was you stayed together as a CREW. Our last flight of the day he grabbed his bags, cleared the cockpit and bolted. I couldn't do that to the FA's, so I helped them fold the seatbelts and empty the trash so that we would all leave together.

When I get my fourth stripe, I making sure we all stay together as a crew.