MY Pilot Rant....

[ready2fly]

I'm a true believer in the F/A's being the face of your flight. They are the ones that the passengers get to see the entire time...not us. We're just the bus drivers.

I also know and respect that the galley is the F/A's office. That said, I've had some disrespect come my way from an over-territorial F/A.

I was coming back into the airplane after doing my post-flight walkaround. I tried several times to get the F/A's attention to see if there were any more passengers, but she just kept talking to the captain.

So, as I re-entered the aircraft, lo-and-behold ..here comes more passengers. So, I jumped out of the way ....into the galley ....because the Captain was standing in the cockpit door.

The F/A .....in front of the exiting passengers...at the top of her lungs...says "GET OUT OF MY GALLEY!!"

I laughed at first thinking she was kidding, until I turned and looked at her....she wasn't kidding.

Again - in front of passengers, she repeats "I SAID....GET OUT OF MY GALLEY!!"

I calmly said "I apologize for inconveniencing you, but I've no place to go until the passengers are gone. I will get out of your galley in just a sec."

She began to yell the same sentence again louder, but the Captain cut her off and informed her that I was fine where I was and that she needed to keep it down.

Other than that, I've never had a problem with any of our F/A's. They are awesome and they deserve the utmost respect!

Peace!

Stan

[MQAAord]

Originally Posted by ready2fly

The F/A .....in front of the exiting passengers...at the top of her lungs...says "GET OUT OF MY GALLEY!!"

I laughed at first thinking she was kidding, until I turned and looked at her....she wasn't kidding.

Again - in front of passengers, she repeats "I SAID....GET OUT OF MY GALLEY!!"

I calmly said "I apologize for inconveniencing you, but I've no place to go until the passengers are gone. I will get out of your galley in just a sec."

She began to yell the same sentence again louder, but the Captain cut her off and informed her that I was fine where I was and that she needed to keep it down.

Pro standards man, that needs to be brought up to pro standards! That kind of attitude is unacceptable.

[Bumblebee]

Originally Posted by MQAAord

If the pilots were in the galley getting stuff from our stocks, I never minded.

BUT, if I've set up the cart or inserts for the top of the cart, that's work I've done in preparation for serving the customers, PLEASE have the courtesy to not un-do the work I've done in setting up the aisle serving cart. All I asked is that they stay out of the cart that I've got set up the way I want it set up. I never minded the crews helping themselves, but please respect the work I've done.

Though I always asked the guys as soon as I could if they wanted anything, so seldom did they have the need to try to find anything themselves. I tried very hard to take good care of my pilots, making sure they had a garbage bag, whatever drinks they wanted, and as much food as I was able to give them.

The galley is the F/As "office", however I was always fully aware that my office was in the CA's office The airplane is the CA's airplane, that is never in dispute. But I do have my workspace too, and I ask for a little consideration in respecting my little corner of the plane.

I wish you could be my flight attendant, sometime! (we do have some great ones)

[Qgar]

Originally Posted by ready2fly

I'm a true believer in the F/A's being the face of your flight. They are the ones that the passengers get to see the entire time...not us. We're just the bus drivers.

I also know and respect that the galley is the F/A's office. That said, I've had some disrespect come my way from an over-territorial F/A.

I was coming back into the airplane after doing my post-flight walkaround. I tried several times to get the F/A's attention to see if there were any more passengers, but she just kept talking to the captain.

So, as I re-entered the aircraft, lo-and-behold ..here comes more passengers. So, I jumped out of the way ....into the galley ....because the Captain was standing in the cockpit door.

The F/A .....in front of the exiting passengers...at the top of her lungs...says "GET OUT OF MY GALLEY!!"

I laughed at first thinking she was kidding, until I turned and looked at her....she wasn't kidding.

Again - in front of passengers, she repeats "I SAID....GET OUT OF MY GALLEY!!"

I calmly said "I apologize for inconveniencing you, but I've no place to go until the passengers are gone. I will get out of your galley in just a sec."

She began to yell the same sentence again louder, but the Captain cut her off and informed her that I was fine where I was and that she needed to keep it down.

Other than that, I've never had a problem with any of our F/A's. They are awesome and they deserve the utmost respect!

Peace!

Stan

Stan, that is TRULY unfortunate, but once in awhile you have to deal with a difficult crewmember, just as I did (hence the topic of this thread!)

[Qgar]

Originally Posted by MQAAord

If the pilots were in the galley getting stuff from our stocks, I never minded.

BUT, if I've set up the cart or inserts for the top of the cart, that's work I've done in preparation for serving the customers, PLEASE have the courtesy to not un-do the work I've done in setting up the aisle serving cart. All I asked is that they stay out of the cart that I've got set up the way I want it set up. I never minded the crews helping themselves, but please respect the work I've done.

Though I always asked the guys as soon as I could if they wanted anything, so seldom did they have the need to try to find anything themselves. I tried very hard to take good care of my pilots, making sure they had a garbage bag, whatever drinks they wanted, and as much food as I was able to give them.

The galley is the F/As "office", however I was always fully aware that my office was in the CA's office The airplane is the CA's airplane, that is never in dispute. But I do have my workspace too, and I ask for a little consideration in respecting my little corner of the plane.

,
Excellent post, Amber! I agree 100% My pilots are so shocked and grateful whenever I hand them a crewmeal -- you'd think I brought them a home cooked, 5-course dinner! (Pretty funny considering our "meals" consist of cereal in the a.m. and either crackers with a cheesespread or a "sandwich" which is pretty small in the afternoon.

[Velocipede]

Originally Posted by B767Driver

The tendency is to believe everyone's judgment in the back is as good as yours...unfortunately...not always the case.

Agreed. There's certainly two sides to every story. I generally limit "command ejections" to drunks and/or anyone who gets verbally abusive or physical with the F/As.

Does your company permit denied boarding of pax for any action?

Yes. You have the option to call the Ground Security Coordinator (GSC) who is usually a CSA to sort it out. Personally, I prefer to let the Port Police handle the issue.

Originally Posted by PCL_128

At all three airlines I've worked for, Captains have authority to remove passengers for any reason they deem necessary. No consultation is required with any manager. How many levels of redundant bureaucracy does DAL have?

Same here and good question.

[PCL_128]

Originally Posted by Qgar

Third, to the rest of you guys discussing the "galley as FA territory." I NEVER mind any pilot coming back there to visit (pre flight or between flights) ,although I'm very happy to get them a beverage or snacks (or the occasional crew meal). Sometimes they need a change of scenery and I welcome them! Oh, I'm territorial of the galley, but only for pax and other FA's from different airlines.

Originally Posted by MQAAord

If the pilots were in the galley getting stuff from our stocks, I never minded.

BUT, if I've set up the cart or inserts for the top of the cart, that's work I've done in preparation for serving the customers, PLEASE have the courtesy to not un-do the work I've done in setting up the aisle serving cart. All I asked is that they stay out of the cart that I've got set up the way I want it set up. I never minded the crews helping themselves, but please respect the work I've done.

Though I always asked the guys as soon as I could if they wanted anything, so seldom did they have the need to try to find anything themselves. I tried very hard to take good care of my pilots, making sure they had a garbage bag, whatever drinks they wanted, and as much food as I was able to give them.

The galley is the F/As "office", however I was always fully aware that my office was in the CA's office The airplane is the CA's airplane, that is never in dispute. But I do have my workspace too, and I ask for a little consideration in respecting my little corner of the plane.

I wish all FAs had this kind of attitude. It would make a day at the "office" so much easier.

Originally Posted by ready2fly

I'm a true believer in the F/A's being the face of your flight. They are the ones that the passengers get to see the entire time...not us. We're just the bus drivers.

I also know and respect that the galley is the F/A's office. That said, I've had some disrespect come my way from an over-territorial F/A.

I was coming back into the airplane after doing my post-flight walkaround. I tried several times to get the F/A's attention to see if there were any more passengers, but she just kept talking to the captain.

So, as I re-entered the aircraft, lo-and-behold ..here comes more passengers. So, I jumped out of the way ....into the galley ....because the Captain was standing in the cockpit door.

The F/A .....in front of the exiting passengers...at the top of her lungs...says "GET OUT OF MY GALLEY!!"

I laughed at first thinking she was kidding, until I turned and looked at her....she wasn't kidding.

Again - in front of passengers, she repeats "I SAID....GET OUT OF MY GALLEY!!"

I calmly said "I apologize for inconveniencing you, but I've no place to go until the passengers are gone. I will get out of your galley in just a sec."

She began to yell the same sentence again louder, but the Captain cut her off and informed her that I was fine where I was and that she needed to keep it down.

Other than that, I've never had a problem with any of our F/A's. They are awesome and they deserve the utmost respect!

Peace!

Stan

I would have had her removed from the trip. No discussion, no debate, just removed from the trip. Zero tolerance for this sort of BS. There is a chain of command on an airliner. FAs don't bark orders at copilots. Period.

[Firebird2XC]

Originally Posted by Velocipede

That goes double for women like Qgar. Coming to this job later in life, she has more "life experience" that she can apply to situations than some of the younger F/As do. While I rely on ALL my crewmembers to perform, there's a certain extra something you get from older F/As. Perhaps its their ability to "mother" the passengers in a way the younger ladies haven't experienced yet.

This part I've noticed is doubly true. I have to admit that my favorite FAs are the ones that have real life and/or industry experience- you know they're on top of things. They bring a polished skill set and a sense of confidence that only comes from having 'been there, done that' more than once.

They also seem to take much more pride in their work. Maybe it's because I'm not quite a kid anymore, or ex-military, but some of the work ethics I see out there are a little.. lax. That goes for FAs and pilots both.

[Firebird2XC]

Originally Posted by MQAAord

Pro standards man, that needs to be brought up to pro standards! That kind of attitude is unacceptable.

What sort of process do FAs typically have for that sort of thing?

I know pilots have 'pro standards' but until just now I didn't know that flight attendants had it, too. Maybe I just overlooked it at some point or I was never told.. but do elaborate. Same stuff?

I had a flight attendant who was more than a little mouthy once- she even barked at me. Loud enough to make me jump. On the other hand, she only did it when it was 'just the crew' and I think she'd been having a bad day. I cut her some slack.

I actually have a point with that- I know pilots get crabby some days but it doesn't always show through as much. We are, after all, 'behind the fortress door' as Velo said. Given that- what can we do to grease the gears for the FA? Other than just staying out of his or her way?

[PCL_128]

As far as I'm concerned, that was going too far for Pro-Stands. I'm a huge support of Pro-Stands, as everyone here probably knows, but when something is an immediate problem, it needs to be handled a different way. In this case, the attitude of the stew was so horrendous that it would cause me to believe that she would be a problem in the event of a safety-of-flight issue. I would not want her as part of my crew.

[Firebird2XC]

Originally Posted by PCL_128

As far as I'm concerned, that was going too far for Pro-Stands. I'm a huge support of Pro-Stands, as everyone here probably knows, but when something is an immediate problem, it needs to be handled a different way. In this case, the attitude of the stew was so horrendous that it would cause me to believe that she would be a problem in the event of a safety-of-flight issue. I would not want her as part of my crew.

That's a good point from somebody who's been in the left seat and makes that call. I've never been there so I wonder if I'm more forgiving for just that reason.

All the same- would booting somebody off your crew for 'an unsafe attitude' get them canned? I'd be concerned that a temporary solution might be a permanent problem. I'm still waiting to hear more feedback from MQAAORD on the pro standards stuff.

If I thought that it was effective, I'd definitely go that route first, unless it was extremely severe.

Example: The drunken ASA flight attendant. My sense of smell sucks, so I'd have to rely on observing behavior. If someone appears to be in an altered mental state, they're gone. Period.

[PCL_128]

Originally Posted by Firebird2XC

All the same- would booting somebody off your crew for 'an unsafe attitude' get them canned?

It might. Depends on the airline. At Pinnacle, I probably could have convinced management not to fire her, but to give her a severe attitude adjustment and a final letter of warning.

[MQAAord]

It may or may not get them fired, it would depend on the severity of the situation.

If it was being mouthy and obnoxious to a pilot, it would probably not result in termination. A stern talking-to and a note in their file, yes, but not termination, at least for a first-time offense. However, if it was a safety issue in addition to being mouthy, doing something flagrantly against regulations, it could result in being fired, especially if said individual was still on probation.

I do believe in CAs removing F/As from flights if there is an attitude/authority issue. Believe me, I've seen some massive 'tudes that really needed checking. Sad really.

I wish that we could all just get along and respect each other and each other's jobs.......

Flight attendants unions have professional standards committees just like the pilots' unions do. If you have an issues with a F/A, please do bring it up to them. The contact information can be found on places like bulletin boards in the F/A crew lounge areas, even the inflight supervisor's office.

[tonyw]

This thread reminds me of a line from a very cheesy and potentially gay movie.

"You don't own that airplane, the [shareholders] do!"

Actually, they probably don't. GE Capital or ILFC probably does.

[Doug Taylor]

Capt. Caucasian watched me eject a passenger once. Not sure if I followed the correct procedure still but poooooo she was drunk like a fratgirl.

[Velocipede]

Doug,

I'm sure you did. Drunk? No question. Off the plane.

On my last trip, an F/A told me a story about a couple getting on in LAS. The wife was so lit, she missed the main cabin door and walked into the side of the airplane.

F/A said, "Sorry, you can't fly in that condition, you'll have to take a later flight."

Hubby stayed aboard and left his sotted wife behind.

Bet that would have been an interesting evening when she finally made it home.

[Doug Taylor]

People are weird. A lady falls on the ice in Madison and hits her head. Long story short, she's got a concussion and is dragged off the hospital. Husband says, "Well, dere's not much more I do there hey, I still want to go to MilWAAAAAHkee"

(Can't express that Midwestern accent correctly)

[ready2fly]

Originally Posted by MQAAord

Pro standards man, that needs to be brought up to pro standards! That kind of attitude is unacceptable.

I know that....now. But didn't at the time.

Originally Posted by PCL_128

I would have had her removed from the trip. No discussion, no debate, just removed from the trip. Zero tolerance for this sort of BS. There is a chain of command on an airliner. FAs don't bark orders at copilots. Period.

When the captain and I got back into the cockpit, he asked me if there had been a previous problem between the F/A and I. Since it was the first leg of our trip and I had never flown with her before, I answered "No."

He had a chat with her and informed me later that if she snapped at me again, she was off the trip.

I've flown with her since and we've had a great time. Must have just caught her on a bad day.

Another problem we have here at Eagle is - people who get fired - generally are back at work within a week or two. We have a F/A who has filed numerous sexual harassment suits against pilots and fellow F/A's..simply because they asked "How was your night?"

She's blown up at Captains, FO's, F/A's, gate agents, passengers, rampers, management...you name it......and been fired.....and rehired.

She's been canned, rehired, canned, rehired, canned, rehired. Aparently, she's "sought help" and her "medication seems to control it."

Same for a few captains (fired and rehired).

Originally Posted by Qgar

Stan, that is TRULY unfortunate, but once in awhile you have to deal with a difficult crewmember, just as I did (hence the topic of this thread!)

Indeed! And my apologies. I did not mean to hijak the thread.

Thanks for the input one and all.

Now....back to your regularly scheduled thread.

[Qgar]

Don't EVER apologize for voicing your experiences/opinions! That's what JC is all about... BTW, glad it all worked out in the end for you and the FA.

[SmitteyB]

Originally Posted by PCL_128

Grrrr. Nothing pisses me off more than Captains that don't treat their FAs right.

6. If we're still at the gate and the FA is having problems with a passenger, then I'll go back to help handle it. For some reason the pax think they can give a bunch of crap to the FAs, but they shut up and comply when they see the guy with the blazer and hat walk up. Lots of Captains will just sit there on their happy asses and wait for the FAs and gate agents to take care of it. Pathetic, as far as I'm concerned.

I couldn't agree more.

Sitting the the right seat watching a weak CA is heartbreaking. I'm the type of pilot who does NOT want to create tension in the cockpit, so I keep quiet unless it's a safety issue.

But you're completely right.

I love the old... "FAs deal with the PAX, so we dont have to!"

No....Flight Attendants are there to keep everyone alive, when we screw up.

[Firebird2XC]

Originally Posted by MQAAord

It may or may not get them fired, it would depend on the severity of the situation.

If it was being mouthy and obnoxious to a pilot, it would probably not result in termination. A stern talking-to and a note in their file, yes, but not termination, at least for a first-time offense. However, if it was a safety issue in addition to being mouthy, doing something flagrantly against regulations, it could result in being fired, especially if said individual was still on probation.

I do believe in CAs removing F/As from flights if there is an attitude/authority issue. Believe me, I've seen some massive 'tudes that really needed checking. Sad really.

I wish that we could all just get along and respect each other and each other's jobs.......

Flight attendants unions have professional standards committees just like the pilots' unions do. If you have an issues with a F/A, please do bring it up to them. The contact information can be found on places like bulletin boards in the F/A crew lounge areas, even the inflight supervisor's office.

Good to know. There are, apparently, a few folks out there with some screws loose. That goes for either side of the cockpit door.

I like the professional standards thing. It's a like a legal civil version of 'taking them out back and beating them with a hose"... to reference 'Super Troopers'.

The crews keep it between crews. Unless the crewmember in question is bat-poo crazy, professional crewmembers can hash it out without the suits getting involved.

Hey- you ever hear the legend of the 'Spider Woman'?

[staplegun]

Originally Posted by Doug Taylor

People are weird. A lady falls on the ice in Madison and hits her head. Long story short, she's got a concussion and is dragged off the hospital. Husband says, "Well, dere's not much more I do there hey, I still want to go to MilWAAAAAHkee"

(Can't express that Midwestern accent correctly)

Doug, everyone knows there's no "L" in Milwaukee!!!?!

So, you lived there for awhile, right? OK then, you shoulda learnt this, my friend!


It's "M'wahhkeee"


Kevin

[germb747]

Originally Posted by PCL_128

I would have had her removed from the trip. No discussion, no debate, just removed from the trip. Zero tolerance for this sort of BS. There is a chain of command on an airliner. FAs don't bark orders at copilots. Period.

I would have too, in a New York microsecond. Zero display of attitude in front of my customers, period.